Repeater requests, but no reply

[WRUU653]

15 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

If a repeater owner fails in their obligation to respond to a request for permission to use

Obligation? Where can I find this binding agreement? 

[WRUU653]

20 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

It is implied in every contract in every State of the Union (except perhaps Louisiana, which does not follow the English Common Law). 

It is called: “good faith and fair dealing.”

What repeater contract are you refering to? There's no implied agreement. What are you talking about? The FCC seems to disagree with you.

Sounds like you mean entitlement, which is not a thing, legally speaking as far as I know. 

 

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons; 

Enhanced Content - Paragraph Tools 

URL

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/part-95/section-95.1705#p-95.1705(d)(2) 

Citation

47 CFR 95.1705(d)(2) 

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

 

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, WRXD372 said:

BUT - would not an acknowledgement of such order by "the government" constitute the grant of an exclusive right to use a certain channel / tone combination in a given area?

 

My opinion, no, not necessarily. That question falls in the jurisdiction of the FCC and the rules are pretty clear that no one has any more or less privilege on a given frequency, and harmful interference rules would then apply. 

[OffRoaderX]

9 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

That Repeater owner has told the Members of this Forum to "Request Access" and his failure to respond violates his implied covenant of "good faith and fair dealing!"

Wrong.. The website has told the members of this forum to request access, not the repeater owner.  This specific repeater is open to everyone, as is very plainly spelled-out in bold letters in the description of the repeater. The website does not give an option to NOT display the "request access" button.

Try again Perry Mason...

 

[marcspaz]

15 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

...especially given the fragile nature of @marcspaz's health at this point in time, which is constraining me from a full throated defense of myself at this time.

 

I appreciate it.  Have to say though, I thought we were having a friendly conversation.  If you were offended by anything I wrote... my apologies.  That wasn't my intent.

 

15 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Once a Repeater owner posts the button here on myGMRS, for example this one:

https://www.mygmrs.com/repeater/4744

That Repeater owner has told the Members of this Forum to "Request Access" and his failure to respond violates his implied covenant of "good faith and fair dealing!"

If you don't want to be subject to the expectation that someone requesting access should get an answer in a reasonable amount of time, then DON'T post the "Request Access" button!

 

 

Not trying to be a smart-ass, but this statement is you literally acknowledging that you indeed do not have permission by default, as you are asking for it.  Since there is a public posting stating that you need to ask permission of the owner, the owner stating you don't have permission (public posting requirement for trespass). Someone could argue that the lack of response is a response.

 

I don't know... just my opinion.

 

[WRKC935]

Has anyone bothered to ask if the PL tones were listed in the posting for the repeater here on the site.  If the tones are posted,,, chances are it's OPEN.

I answer one or two requests per week and the repeater is listed as being OPEN.  I would rather that people just use my repeater as they need to and NOT ask for permission. 

And yes, my tones are posted.  No need to scan anything. 

 

Have you monitored the channel and even verified there is an active repeater on the frequency any more?  Might verify it's still active before asking about getting access to it.

But again, if the tones are posted, use the repeater.  For those of you that don't want other people on your repeater either post the repeater as being CLOSED or don't post your tones.  Better yet, don't post the repeater at all.  But don't blow a gasket when someone comes in and parks an OPEN repeater on your pair.  One of my favorite things to do.

 

[WRUU653]

@WRXD372 respectfully a heads up on the forums rules for posting repeater info… this keeps the info to members only.

Private content. Do not post sensitive information such as repeater PL/DPL (also known as privacy or CTCSS/DCS tones) tones outside of the Private Discussion forum. This is to protect sensitive information from being picked up and indexed by search engines such as Google and Bing. 
 

 

[WRUU653]

1 minute ago, WRXE944 said:

Oh OH: An accomplice to trespass!?! 

I actually edited my earlier post to delete the screenshot and replace it with a smaller one that, obviously, does not include the Tones.

Good for you, you got something right.

[WRUU653]

49 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

have you forgotten the subject of your question to me already?  And I will repeat it for your benefit, but in the future I am not going to allow myself to be drawn into the circular arguments just because members are forgetting what they said earlier:

Oh I didn’t forget. But then you knew that. You’re just being condescending now. 
 

A MYGMRS.COM

STRANGER DOESN'T LIKE MY OPINION.

PLEASE RESPECT MY PRIVACY DURING THIS

DIFFICULT TIME.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WRKC935 said:

Has anyone bothered to ask if the PL tones were listed in the posting for the repeater here on the site.  If the tones are posted,,, chances are it's OPEN.

 

 

 

 

[OffRoaderX]

RX 462.600 - DCS 023

TX 467.600 - DCS 023

Now Google has it and there is no getting that toothpaste back into the tube.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

RX 462.600 - DCS 023

TX 467.600 - DCS 023

Now Google has it and there is no getting that toothpaste back into the tube.

 

 Oh NOOOO !!! 

Now I have no excuse to not put this into my radio and use it the next time I am "down the hill" 

P.S. @OffRoaderX you are also not doing a good job hiding this information on your website  

[OffRoaderX]

4 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Is DELTA gone?

Yup.. a small group of idiots that we call The Kiddy Kartel decided they didnt like it when a few founders of the group that put Delta up talked and started jamming them all the time, so we said "F-that" and repurposed it.

[WRUU653]

1 minute ago, OffRoaderX said:

Yup.. a small group of idiots that we call The Kiddy Kartel decided they didnt like it when a few founders of the group that put Delta up talked and started jamming them all the time, so we said "F-that" and repurposed it.

Sorry to hear that. 

[UncleYoda]

What if the tones are unlisted but the repeater is listed as Open?  Is that really open?  Seems like it should say Permission Required or Members Only (Free).

[Sshannon]

2 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

What if the tones are unlisted but the repeater is listed as Open?  Is that really open?  Seems like it should say Permission Required or Members Only (Free).

If it’s listed as “open” it’s open.  If listing it as “open” was a mistake the repeater operator must correct it.

As to why no tones are listed, if the repeater truly is open I don’t know why they don’t list tones unless they don’t use tones.

[marcspaz]

14 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

unless they don’t use tones.

We have a couple like that around me.  Even some 2m repeaters on the builder's pair.

[UncleYoda]

30 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

If it’s listed as “open” it’s open.  If listing it as “open” was a mistake the repeater operator must correct it.

As to why no tones are listed, if the repeater truly is open I don’t know why they don’t list tones unless they don’t use tones.

Not a mistake.  Repeater owner has insisted he thinks they all should be open.  He decided after initial testing to not list tones anymore.  My point is the database shouldn't allow Open and Unlisted; that's what Permission Required is for.  (In this case, owner has also disabled access requests, but that may not be permanent.)  There is a "No Tone" choice so Unlisted is clearly different.  (Again, in this case, I know there will be tones.)

[WRUU653]

5 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

If it’s listed as “open” it’s open.  If listing it as “open” was a mistake the repeater operator must correct it.

As to why no tones are listed, if the repeater truly is open I don’t know why they don’t list tones unless they don’t use tones.

I agree if it’s listed as open I take that at face value. If it’s not I assume it’s permission required.

 I have stumbled across a repeater (it was using common “travel tones”) while it was being tested by the owner and I offered my feedback for my location and asked for permission which he was happy to give but he did ask that once it went live on this site to do the request so he had it in his records.  
However the repeater owner wants to require or not I am happy to oblige, it’s their choice and I look at it as a privilege that’s theirs to give if I can use it or not.

[WRUU653]

9 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Not a mistake.  Repeater owner has insisted he thinks they all should be open.  He decided after initial testing to not list tones anymore.  My point is the database shouldn't allow Open and Unlisted; that's what Permission Required is for.  (In this case, owner has also disabled access requests, but that may not be permanent.)  There is a "No Tone" choice so Unlisted is clearly different.  (Again, in this case, I know there will be tones.)

So it’s open but he wants only people who can figure the tones out to use it? I mean I guess if that’s what he wants. Definitely different though.

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

So it’s open but he wants only people who can figure the tones out to use it? I mean I guess if that’s what he wants. Definitely different though.

He only wants people skilled at breaking in.

[ULTRA2]

On 7/19/2023 at 9:30 AM, WRUU653 said:

So it’s open but he wants only people who can figure the tones out to use it? I mean I guess if that’s what he wants. Definitely different though.

If you do that it makes sense to list your repeater as a "Permission only" Also as to lessen any confusion if you want people to find your tones just post them so there's no confusion. That's just my 2 cents worth.

[BoxCar]

1 hour ago, WRXE944 said:

What is your opinion about this hypothetical?

You, a GMRS licensee, are using an FRS radio to talk with a GMRS operator who is using a GMRS radio.

Must you follow the GMRS identification rules?

If you are on FRS channels, then no.

[Sshannon]

The rule regarding identification states the following:

Each GMRS station must be identified by transmission of its FCC-assigned call sign at the end of transmissions and at periodic intervals during transmissions except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section. A unit number may be included after the call sign in the identification.

If you're using an FRS radio, you are not using a GMRS station, regardless of the fact that you hold a GMRS license.

[marcspaz]

3 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

What is your opinion about this hypothetical?

You, a GMRS licensee, are using an FRS radio to talk with a GMRS operator who is using a GMRS radio.

Must you follow the GMRS identification rules?

 

29 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

If you're using an FRS radio, you are not using a GMRS station, regardless of the fact that you hold a GMRS license.

 

As Steve mentioned, this is my opinion as well.  My GMRS license, even my Amateur Radio license, are Station licenses and I am simply a trustee.  Myself and people I delegate (within the rules) are permitted to use that station or stations under the station authority, as supervised by the trustee.

 

Since FRS is a License by Rule radio service and there is nothing in Part-95, Subpart-B that requires station (nor user) identification, there is no need to ID at all as long as you are using an FRS radio.