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"Stealth" home antenna for HOA

WRXR374

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kidphc Experienced

kidphc

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I'm pretty sure my HOA isn't going to sign off on an antenna.  Looking for my options if that's the case.
Similar problem with my hoa.

For hf I resorted to a bird feeder with a "perching line". The other hf antenna, I will be putting up a 1/4 hf antenna with a flag on top. They allow flag poles up to 25 feet.



For my gmrs and uhf/vhf antennas. I have resorted to in the attic. Which presents other problems. Plus, they don't work fantastic. But any antenna is better then non. Though about putting up a vertical mobile antenna, with a base ground plane made for mobile antennas on the eveaes of the house.

My hoa doest allow tv antennas. Although that is in violation of the FCC OTA rules. They also only allow small satellite dishes under 16".

There are ways around the rules. Most are not optimal. I wish I had trees on my lot, because, you can hide verticals reasonably well in a tree with green paint.

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SteveShannon Grand Master

SteveShannon

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, WRXR374 said:

I'd love to see a statute or case cited.  I've always heard that was only for digital TV antennas.

The rule for TV antennas is part of OTARD, which is an acronym for "Over The Air Reception Devices".  It's described here:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antennas-and-satellite-dishes#:~:text=The FCC requires fixed wireless,be professionally installed are permissible.

But this line describes how it affects two way radio usage:

"Antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur ("ham") radio, CB radio, or digital audio radio services are not covered by the rule."

That doesn't mean that some other rule doesn't do what Marc's friend needed, possibly even a state rule, but it's not this one.

There was a petition a couple decades ago arguing "reasonable allowances" that was denied:

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/amateur-radio-service/prb-1-1999

It was review again and denied again in this decision:

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/amateur-radio-service/prb-1-2001

However, there is this rule (rule b) regarding amateur radio and state or local authorities (does that include HOAs? I would guess not):

 

§ 97.15 Station antenna structures.

(a) Owners of certain antenna structures more than 60.96 meters (200 feet) above ground level at the site or located near or at a public use airport must notify the Federal Aviation Administration and register with the Commission as required by part 17 of this chapter.

(b) Except as otherwise provided herein, a station antenna structure may be erected at heights and dimensions sufficient to accommodate amateur service communications. (State and local regulation of a station antenna structure must not preclude amateur service communications. Rather, it must reasonably accommodate such communications and must constitute the minimum practicable regulation to accomplish the state or local authority's legitimate purpose. See PRB–1, 101 FCC 2d 952 (1985) for details.)

(c) Antennas used to transmit in the 2200 m and 630 m bands must not exceed 60 meters in height above ground level.

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WRXR374 Contributor

WRXR374

Posted
  • Author
Posted
36 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Similar problem with my hoa.

For my gmrs and uhf/vhf antennas. I have resorted to in the attic. Which presents other problems. Plus, they don't work fantastic. But any antenna is better then non. Though about putting up a vertical mobile antenna, with a base ground plane made for mobile antennas on the eveaes of the house.

There are ways around the rules. Most are not optimal. I wish I had trees on my lot, because, you can hide verticals reasonably well in a tree with green paint.

Problem I see with the eaves is that sounds very unidirectional.

I'm interested in any omnidirectional antenna that could go in the attic even if it's sub-optimal.

The tree idea is good, but I'd have quite a bit of trenching to do.  I'll have to think about that!

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kidphc Experienced

kidphc

Posted
Posted
Problem I see with the eaves is that sounds very unidirectional.
I'm interested in any omnidirectional antenna that could go in the attic even if it's sub-optimal.
The tree idea is good, but I'd have quite a bit of trenching to do.  I'll have to think about that!
The peak of the eaves. I have a giant triangle on the side of the house. Some 40 feet off the ground.

Mobile verticals are going to be omni. Very few people use mobile yagis.

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Blaise Community Regular

Blaise

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, kidphc said:

That only applies to tv antennas.
They do and can restrict you from putting radio antennas and towers.

So if you put your GMRS antenna on your TV antenna...

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Lscott Grand Master

Lscott

Posted
Posted

I’ve read where people mounted a small tower/mast on a trailer then ran the coax into the house. Technically the antenna is used on a vehicle so it isn’t covered under an HOA. Others put one on their car/SUV/truck and ran the cable inside. Same idea. 

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marcspaz Grand Master

marcspaz

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, kidphc said:

That only applies to tv antennas.

They do and can restrict you from putting radio antennas and towers.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

 

For what it's worth, there are some federal statutes (I'm out and don't remember at the moment) that state HOAs 'must' make reasonable accommodations for 2-way radio equipment. My friend actually went to court over and the HOA lost.  He replaced his small antennas that could only be seen off property through about 2 degrees of opening in the trees, with a giant mast that is 20 feet higher than the house and has several monster antennas for HF, VHF and UHF.

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kidphc Experienced

kidphc

Posted
Posted
 
For what it's worth, there are some federal statutes (I'm out and don't remember at the moment) that state HOAs 'must' make reasonable accommodations for 2-way radio equipment. My friend actually went to court over and the HOA lost.  He replaced his small antennas that could only be seen off property through about 2 degrees of opening in the trees, with a giant mast that is 20 feet higher than the house and has several monster antennas for HF, VHF and UHF.
Funny enough neighborhood is full of "karens". Complaining about leaf blowers and lawn mowers during business hours. That can be heard in their house. Same people where if they were less financially secure with live under a glide path to an airport. Then demand they move the airport that was there 40 years prior to the houses. Lol.

I will have to recheck the covenant. But it's pretty restrictive. Not sure about the op.

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Blaise Community Regular

Blaise

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, kidphc said:

For me no. My Hoa will not allow yagi style antennas in the covenant.

I feel like intentionally cutting residents off from emergency transmissions and news *has* to be illegal!

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Blaise Community Regular

Blaise

Posted
Posted
Just now, marcspaz said:

This is why so many auto race tracks go away.

Hipsters are doing this in NYC right now.  Swarm to live in the "cheap" meatpacking district, then sue the hundred-year-old slaughterhouses because of the smell...

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WRXR374 Contributor

WRXR374

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

For what it's worth, there are some federal statutes (I'm out and don't remember at the moment) that state HOAs 'must' make reasonable accommodations for 2-way radio equipment. My friend actually went to court over and the HOA lost.  He replaced his small antennas that could only be seen off property through about 2 degrees of opening in the trees, with a giant mast that is 20 feet higher than the house and has several monster antennas for HF, VHF and UHF.

I'd love to see a statute or case cited.  I've always heard that was only for digital TV antennas.

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marcspaz Grand Master

marcspaz

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, WRXR374 said:

I'd love to see a statute or case cited.  I've always heard that was only for digital TV antennas.

 

I know that 47 C.F.R.  §97.15 applies to Amateur Radio, and section 207 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 covers almost everything else.

 

If the HOA bust chops about a CB or GMRS antenna, I would just get my Amateur license and then the antennas would be protected. 

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kidphc Experienced

kidphc

Posted
Posted
 
I know that 47 C.F.R.  §97.15 applies to Amateur Radio, and section 207 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 covers almost everything else.
 
If the HOA bust chops about a CB or GMRS antenna, I would just get my Amateur license and then the antennas would be protected. 
I thought the amateur antenna is protected if you are a mars operator. Then it is protected by the DOD. Then everyone can go pound sand.

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WRDE563 Newbie

WRDE563

Posted
Posted
On 6/23/2023 at 12:58 PM, kidphc said:

Similar problem with my hoa.

For hf I resorted to a bird feeder with a "perching line". The other hf antenna, I will be putting up a 1/4 hf antenna with a flag on top. They allow flag poles up to 25 feet.



For my gmrs and uhf/vhf antennas. I have resorted to in the attic. Which presents other problems. Plus, they don't work fantastic. But any antenna is better then non. Though about putting up a vertical mobile antenna, with a base ground plane made for mobile antennas on the eveaes of the house.

My hoa doest allow tv antennas. Although that is in violation of the FCC OTA rules. They also only allow small satellite dishes under 16".

There are ways around the rules. Most are not optimal. I wish I had trees on my lot, because, you can hide verticals reasonably well in a tree with green paint.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

For my hf antenna in HOA I use a gutter. Works great with a 9-1 unun. Here is a facebook group that has a lot of good suggestions.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/292984397532571

 

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SteveShannon Grand Master

SteveShannon

Posted
Posted
On 9/2/2023 at 9:35 AM, kidphc said:

It was in my plans to be a tertiary/fourth antenna... but it is on hold till I can buy multiple coax switches

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

A patch panel is cheaper and more flexible than two coax switches connected common to common, if that’s what you’re thinking about doing. 

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