Approved for Ham & GMRS radios

[pcradio]

The new TidRadio is licensed for both bands. The writing is on the wall for the big three if they won't make an all in one radio that is type accepted for multiple bands. If you have a license, you should be able to use the same radio, its just common sense. The Yaesu VX-7R is the same radio as the HX470S, except the HX470S is typed for FRS too. Its time to stop playing games.

The KG-UV9PX is the same thing as the KG-UV9GX. I think they may have changed the sticker on the front! UV-5R vs UV-5G.

And on and on with so many radios. How do you feel about this?

[marcspaz]

That seems like a violation of FCC rules... especially since (I believe) there is no certification process for amateur radio equipment. I'm highly suspicious of them making that claim and having it be truthful. 

 

Edit: man... that whole write-up is sus.  Dude claims it's GMRS and Ham approved, but you're doing a soft-reset and going between modes via a service menu... now I'm really calling BS.

[marcspaz]

...

[WRUI365]

Last radio I had seen from Tid wasn't even allowed to be sold in the US

[Guest]

Title 47 / Chapter I / Subchapter D / Part 95 / Subpart E

§ 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification.

[...] No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. [...]

eCFR :: 47 CFR Part 95 Subpart E -- General Mobile Radio Service

 

... Moving on - What's Next ?!?

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

@marcspaz correctly summarizes the FCC GMRS rules on this subject; a "proper" GMRS radio cannot transmit on other frequencies.

The best exception I have seen to that rule is the Radioddity DB20-G GMRS mini-mobile transceiver;  which can be easily "opened" to transmit on 2 meters and 70 cm, and then can be easily switched back to be a fully compliant GMRS radio again.

Those other frequencies must not be amateur radio frequencies ...

47 CFR 95.1761(c)

No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. [...]

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E

[wrci350]

1 hour ago, pcradio said:

The new TidRadio is licensed for both bands. The writing is on the wall for the big three if they won't make an all in one radio that is type accepted for multiple bands. If you have a license, you should be able to use the same radio, its just common sense.

Radios are not "licensed", they are type-accepted.

FRS type-acceptance is here:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-B/section-95.561

GMRS, here:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1761

There is no type-acceptance required or even available for amateur radio (Part 97).  If a vendor claims they have a radio that is "licensed" (sic) for amateur radio they are either very confused or flat-out lying, since there is no such thing.

If you read those sections you will see that a rule will be granted type-acceptance for FRS only if it meets all the FRS rules, and that no radio that can operate under FRS rules and "any other paragraph (except 15)" are not allowed.  So a legal FRS radio is FRS-only, but definition.

GMRS *does* allow certification under Part 95E and another paragraph (i.e. Part 90) but specifically forbids certification of a radio that can operate under Part 97 (Amateur Radio).  So again, under current FCC rules, you cannot have a 'legal' GMRS radio that can also operate on 2m/70cm.

As far as the writing being on the wall, it sounds like The Big Three aren't interested in putting out radios that can be used under Part 95 illegally.

The last point seems reasonable ... but that's not how the rules are written.  Feel free to petition the FCC to change them.

[wrci350]

12 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

which can be easily "opened" to transmit on 2 meters and 70 cm, and then can be easily switched back to be a fully compliant GMRS radio again.

If it can still transmit on GMRS channels while also being able to transmit on 2m/70cm, then using it on GMRS falls outside what is "legal" per FCC rules.

[pcradio]

How is it logical that the UV-5R and the UV-5G are the exact same radio?

[wrci350]

22 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

No, once "opened" the whole concept of GMRS channels falls by the wayside. Once "unopened" it returns to GMRS style channels.

Looks like I should have stated it differently.  If the radio is capable of transmitting on the GMRS frequencies while opened up, that does not comply with GMRS rules.  The fact that you are transmitting on 462.5500 instead of on "Channel 15" makes absolutely no difference.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

[...] you cannot have a 'legal' GMRS radio that can also operate on 2m/70cm. [...]

 

@wrci350 as this "discussion" is starting to spiral into the same endless "non-topic" of mods and tweaks (often disregarding the loss of license) I like to move outside that boring box by proposing the following:

GEEKS - I call upon you to find possibel 2m/70cm band use cases (obviously not ham) that a GMRS radio could be "co-certified" as.

I go first: VHF Marine Radio

 

Note: UHF and VHF are more than just Ham 

 

[wrci350]

3 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

(often disregarding the loss of license)

GEEKS - I call upon you to find possibel 2m/70cm band use cases (obviously not ham) that a GMRS radio could be "co-certified" as.

I go first: VHF Marine Radio

 

Note: UHF and VHF are more than just Ham 

 

What "license"?  Radios are type-accepted, not licensed.

Not sure what point you are trying to make.  The GMRS rules DO allow a radio to be type-accepted for Part 95 E and some other part ... but they are not allowed to transmit on Part 97 frequencies.  So you cannot have a legal radio that is GMRS and 2m/70cm.

And of course VHF and UHF are FAR more than just the Part 97 frequencies, yet you say "2m/70cm" (which IS ham).

[pcradio]

20 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

you cannot have a legal radio that is GMRS and 2m/70cm.

But why? I want to hike with a radio and talk to my friends. I don't want to use their CCR of choice, I want to use my Yaesu VX-7R. Why is this so complicated? Why have older hams allowed this nonsense to go on for so many years? Do people really carry two different radios (that are exactly the same hardware)? That is funny! Truly hysterical if someone carries an UV-5R & UV-5G on their waistband, lol.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

"2m/70cm" (which IS ham).

I must apologies !

Until you pointed this out, I was not aware that the common US usage of the 2m and 70 cm terms is a direct reference to amateur radio.

...and I actually verified with the help of Wikipedia that both terms clearly indicate amateur radio usage on the US / English pages while the German pages expand the meaning to include other services such as 'Betriebsfunk' (commercial) and "BOS" (public safety). 

I admit that I was not aware of the difference in use!

What a good day - I learned something and got reminded that cultural differences are "everywhere".

[wrci350]

40 minutes ago, pcradio said:

But why? I want to hike with a radio and talk to my friends. I don't want to use their CCR of choice, I want to use my Yaesu VX-7R. Why is this so complicated? Why have older hams allowed this nonsense to go on for so many years? Do people really carry two different radios (that are exactly the same hardware)? That is funny! Truly hysterical if someone carries an UV-5R & UV-5G on their waistband, lol.

Yes, your indignation is truly hysterical.  "older hams" ???  Huh?  Since when do hams dictate the FCC rules?

The rules for GMRS and FRS were last revised in 2017.  According to my calendar app, that's six years ago.  Where do you get "so many years"?

Keep in mind too that the perception of GMRS as "ham lite" or "the new CB" is a very recent thing.  Most "older hams" have no interest whatsoever in GMRS, so why would they care?

Obviously the Big Three ham radio manufacturers aren't as willing to play fast-and-loose with the FCC rules.

[WRQC527]

2 hours ago, pcradio said:

Why have older hams allowed this nonsense to go on for so many years?

 

[pcradio]

12 hours ago, wrci350 said:

Since when do hams dictate the FCC rules?

The foundation of the Ham universe is ham's policing themselves. We determine "how" the FCC is going to act. Thus on internet forums, people actually tell others, presumably with a straight face, that one must carry two identical radios.

Instead there should be push back and someone on this board is connected to the FCC and we agree to have that very silly "rule" changed and codified in print. Not keep it going for decades.

[WRQC527]

55 minutes ago, pcradio said:

We determine "how" the FCC is going to act.

 

[SteveShannon]

14 hours ago, pcradio said:

But why? I want to hike with a radio and talk to my friends. I don't want to use their CCR of choice, I want to use my Yaesu VX-7R. Why is this so complicated? Why have older hams allowed this nonsense to go on for so many years? Do people really carry two different radios (that are exactly the same hardware)? That is funny! Truly hysterical if someone carries an UV-5R & UV-5G on their waistband, lol.

What are you doing about it?

[pcradio]

1 minute ago, Sshannon said:

What are you doing about it?

Asking my elders.

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, pcradio said:

Asking my elders.

You really aren’t.  You’re lecturing people and whining about what you perceive as a problem caused by “old hams”. Get off your butt and petition the FCC.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, pcradio said:

Asking my elders.

 

1 minute ago, Sshannon said:

You really aren’t.  You’re lecturing people and whining about what you perceive as a problem caused by “old hams”. Get off your butt and petition the FCC.  

Or you can simply embrace the advantage of TWO radios:

Hiking with TWO (almost) identical (weight and size) radios is actually a good idea for balance and posture  !!!

[pcradio]

4 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Get off your butt and petition the FCC.  

That's a fair admonishment. It takes knowing the community first. Once people visualize that carrying a UV-5R & UV-5G on their belt is illogical, we can begin the process of making a formal petition. Thank you for your feedback.

[pcradio]

2 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

Hiking with TWO (almost) identical (weight and size) radios is actually a good idea for balance and posture  !!!

Imagine accidentally reaching for the UV-5R, and thinking it was your UV-5G because they are in fact identical! That would be funny!

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, pcradio said:

That's a fair admonishment. It takes knowing the community first. Once people visualize that carrying a UV-5R & UV-5G on their belt is illogical, we can begin the process of making a formal petition. Thank you for your feedback.

I agree that carrying two identical radios simultaneously is illogical.  If Tidradio can do it so can Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, and Alinco.  The FCC does respond to petitions; that sometimes works in our favor and sometimes not so much.