Glutton for punishment..... the travel tone.

[JamesBrox]

If I'm traveling across the state or across the country and want to listen out for gmrs folks. Where do I put the travel tone (141.3) in my radio? In TX or RX and what channels? GMRS 15-22 or RPT 15-22? or both? Just don't understand where the travel tone comes into effect.... idk. SMH

[CaptainSarcastic]

You would want to put the 141.3 travel tone PL code in the "TX" on the repeater channels - that travel PL tone is what will wake up alot of the repeaters - not all of them, but alot of them. You "can" also put the PL in the RX of those same repeaters, but your squelch will not open up unless the repeater on that channel is transmitting with the same PL, and not all of them do that.

[JamesBrox]

33 minutes ago, WRYK453 said:

You would want to put the 141.3 travel tone PL code in the "TX" on the repeater channels - that travel PL tone is what will wake up alot of the repeaters - not all of them, but alot of them. You "can" also put the PL in the RX of those same repeaters, but your squelch will not open up unless the repeater on that channel is transmitting with the same PL, and not all of them do that.

"but your squelch will not open up" 

Thank you Sir. But what does that mean....I can't talk to the person? And really sir....I'm not trying to hardheaded. Radio jargon throws us new guys.

[CaptainSarcastic]

11 minutes ago, JamesBrox said:

"but your squelch will not open up" 

Thank you Sir. But what does that mean?

The squelch is the function on the radio that keeps you from hearing static between transmissions. If you turn the squelch level down to 0 on your radio, you will hear static and that gets old rather quickly. Turning the squelch level up, eliminates that static and you only hear something when someone transmits - UNLESS - you happen to be in an area with alot of interference. Sometimes electronics transmit RF (radio frequency or radio signals) that they arent intending to, and sometimes you can hear that on your radio. Adding PL to the RX side of your channel helps to eliminate that - it will only open up the squelch if a legit signal transmitting with that PL is heard. This can be used on simplex frequencies as long as your buddy is setting the same PL tone on his TX/RX (think "Privacy Channels" by Midland), but it's usually used in conjunction with repeaters. I hope my explanation makes sense!

[JamesBrox]

1 minute ago, WRYK453 said:

The squelch is the function on the radio that keeps you from hearing static between transmissions. If you turn the squelch level down to 0 on your radio, you will hear static and that gets old rather quickly. Turning the squelch level up, eliminates that static and you only hear something when someone transmits - UNLESS - you happen to be in an area with alot of interference. Sometimes electronics transmit RF (radio frequency or radio signals) that they arent intending to, and sometimes you can hear that on your radio. Adding PL to the RX side of your channel helps to eliminate that - it will only open up the squelch if a legit signal transmitting with that PL is heard. This can be used on simplex frequencies as long as your buddy is setting the same PL tone on his TX/RX, but it's usually used in conjunction with repeaters. I hope my explanation makes sense!

Thank you. I understand what squelch is. So a setting of "0" is open or close squelch? 

[CaptainSarcastic]

Setting squelch to 0 is wide open.

[CaptainSarcastic]

21 minutes ago, JamesBrox said:

"but your squelch will not open up" 

Thank you Sir. But what does that mean....I can't talk to the person? 

You can still talk to whoever you want with the squelch set to 0. It has nothing at all to do with how you transmit (TX)...it only effects the receiver (RX). So if you have 141.3 set in the RX side of the repeater channel, and the repeater is not sending out the 141.3 code, you will not hear anything on the radio - you will probably see the reception bars move, but you won't hear any audio because you are telling your radio to ignore any signal on that channel that does not have the 141.3 code embedded in it.

[JamesBrox]

2 minutes ago, WRYK453 said:

Setting squelch to 0 is wide open.

Thank you. Radio jargon is something I'm learning....appreciate it. So, if someone needs help on the interstate or county backroad has no cell signal and access to a gmrs radio. They can call out for help but they would have to use the repeater channels with the travel tone in the correct position on their radio? 

[JamesBrox]

7 minutes ago, WRYK453 said:

You can still talk to whoever you want with the squelch set to 0. It has nothing at all to do with how you transmit (TX)...it only effects the receiver (RX). So if you have 141.3 set in the RX side of the repeater channel, and the repeater is not sending out the 141.3 code, you will not hear anything on the radio - you will probably see the reception bars move, but you won't hear any audio because you are telling your radio to ignore any signal on that channel that does not have the 141.3 code embedded in it.

I see.

[CaptainSarcastic]

13 minutes ago, JamesBrox said:

Thank you. Radio jargon is something I'm learning....appreciate it. So, if someone needs help on the interstate or county backroad has no cell signal and access to a gmrs radio. They can call out for help but they would have to use the repeater channels with the travel tone in the correct position on their radio? 

The PL tones, may or may not be 141.3 for the repeater you are trying to access - it depends on that repeater owners setup. But using a repeater in that situation would definitely allow your radio to be heard over a larger range and likely give you the ability to summon help faster than using a simplex channel IF someone is listening to the repeater at that time...

[JamesBrox]

2 minutes ago, WRYK453 said:

Using a repeater in that situation will definitely give your radio more range and likely the ability to access help faster than using a simplex channel. 

I appreciate your patience.

[CaptainSarcastic]

7 minutes ago, JamesBrox said:

I appreciate your patience.

I'm happy to help - we were all new to this "Radio Thing" at one time! I'm still pretty new to GMRS but have been doing the radio thing for quite awhile now.

[WRUU653]

@JamesBrox what you may want to do and what I have done is program one set of the eight repeater channels with a TX tone of 141.3 then you will be able to use an open repeater with that tone. Don't set a tone for the RX if you want to hear everything on that channel regardless if the repeater is using that tone or not. When you make a contact verify it is an open repeater free to use. Most that use that tone are but some may not be. 

[RayP]

On all of my ht's and mobile radios, I set them to encode (transmit) only on all thirty channels with a 141.3 PL.  As this is the universally (in the USA) accepted travel and open system tone, I figure my chances of being heard increase greatly, whether on an open system repeater, or on simplex where an operator needed more protection from noise blaring through their speaker than the carrier squelch alone on their radio had to offer.  As others on here have correctly noted, I leave the receive on those channels in carrier squelch (cs) mode or "Off" on some CTCSS Decode menus.  For some reason, many repeater operators just couldn't spare that extra 30 seconds it would have taken them to program their repeater to encode a tone on the output to match the one required on the input to activate their repeater.   If such is the case on a repeater you are trying to use, if your CTCSS decoder is turned on, you will not hear that repeater, thus the cs mode.

Most of my stuff is Wouxun, so adding other repeaters and simplex channels where differing PL codes are used is no problem.  If you have Midland radios or similar that do not readily allow addition of more repeater and/or simplex channels, programming your radio as I described above may not be a luxury you can partake of on all channels.

I hope this helps.

[JamesBrox]

3 hours ago, RayP said:

I hope this helps....

Yes Sir. It helps a lot. Thank you 

James (WRXU693)

Wouxun owner as well. KG-1000G+

 

 

[JamesBrox]

"I set them to encode (transmit)".... 

"extra 30 seconds it would have taken them to program their repeater to encode a tone on the output"

Hey Ray, I'm confused. "Encode" is TX on the radio. How is encode (TX) could a repeater be the same? Nothing gets heard if the radio and repeater is TX (encode) at the same time.  My head hurts. 

 

[WRUU653]

8 hours ago, RayP said:

For some reason, many repeater operators just couldn't spare that extra 30 seconds it would have taken them to program their repeater to encode a tone on the output to match the one required on the input to activate their repeater

It’s a conscious choice. So the party on the other end knows if someone is on the channel in simplex and/or the repeater. 

[WRUU653]

1 hour ago, JamesBrox said:

"I set them to encode (transmit)".... 

"extra 30 seconds it would have taken them to program their repeater to encode a tone on the output"

Hey Ray, I'm confused. "Encode" is TX on the radio. How is encode (TX) could a repeater be the same? Nothing gets heard if the radio and repeater is TX (encode) at the same time.  My head hurts. 

 

Just as your radio has a TX and RX so does the repeater. It’s basically a radio as well, one that forwards what it receives on one frequency 467.xxx to another 462.xxx. 

[jsneezy]

467.675/462.675 with a CTCSS of 141.3 I believe was considered to be the settings for what used to be known as the Open Repeater Initiative. That seems to have gone away in recent years, but there are quite a few repeater owners trying to keep it alive. 

If a repeater has a different tone set on the encode side, you won't be able to open squelch on it. Generally, it's a better idea to find repeaters that you will be near and using, and program those into the radio. I do believe the travel tone (141.3) is still pretty widely used, but if none of the repeaters in your area are using that tone or trying to keep the ORI alive, you are pretty unlikely to get anyone. Generally, for road trips, I will see what repeaters are available along the way and around the destination and get those programmed into the radio before leaving.

[RayP]

22 hours ago, JamesBrox said:

"I set them to encode (transmit)".... 

"extra 30 seconds it would have taken them to program their repeater to encode a tone on the output"

Hey Ray, I'm confused. "Encode" is TX on the radio. How is encode (TX) could a repeater be the same? Nothing gets heard if the radio and repeater is TX (encode) at the same time.  My head hurts. 

 

Hi James!  I understand the headache thing.  Once it is adequately explained, hopefully it will fit together more easily for you.  I will try to do that but if I inadvertently leave holes of gaps, please feel free to question me.  This will be lengthy so I beg the pardon of those who feel that all comments should be brief.

Your mobile, base, or ht, when operating through a repeater will necessarily transmit on one frequency (the repeater input), and receive on another (the repeater output).  Those input/output frequencies need to be spaced a certain distance from each other frequency wise to prevent de-sense and other issues of self-interference by the repeater to itself.  On land mobile UHF frequencies in the USA (like GMRS), the standard spacing is exactly 5 MHz.  Using the lowest GMRS repeater pair for instance, to operate on repeater channel 15, your mobile, base, or ht (here shortened to ht for brevity) will necessarily transmit on 467.550 which is where a repeater using repeater channel 15 listens for all transmissions.  When the repeater hears a transmission on that frequency (its input), it begins transmitting on the output channel (462.550).  Audio (voice, etc) received on the input is transferred to the output and broadcast over it, where others' mobiles, bases, and ht's receive it.  Given that ideally, a repeater is up high on a tower, water tank, building, mountain, etc, and usually with a large gain antenna, it enables transmissions from an ht to be heard and retransmitted at much greater distance than would normally be possible.  The repeater is doing something that most ht's etc cannot do, which is transmitting and receiving at the same time.  When your unkey your ht, the signal into the repeater drops and after a few seconds (usually 2 or 3), and the repeater stops transmitting.  That extra 2 or 3 seconds is called "hang time" (often erroneously referred to as "squelch tail") and is helpful in determining your relative signal received from the repeater and whether or not you actually keyed it up or "hit it".  It can be set by the repeater owner regarding duration and some repeaters (thankfully very few) may have no hang time at all, leaving you to guess whether or not you hit it or whether or not it is even on the air.

If the repeater is using carrier squelch (aka CS or CSQ), chances are high that it will regularly receive and re-transmit traffic intended for other repeaters operating on that same repeater frequency or "pair" (input/output).  Those transmissions could be in the same town or even hundreds of miles away depending on elevation of the repeater, the other system ht's, band conditions, etc.  Enter CTCSS/DCS!  CTCSS (Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System) and newer DCS (Digital Coded Squelch) allow a repeater owner to set his repeater's tone decoder to a specific tone.  That tone will be needed before the repeater receiver can receive an ht's transmission on the input and begin re-transmitting it on the output.  Other signals using carrier squelch or a different tone will not open up the receiver and activate the repeater.  Think of the tone decoder (for instance set to 141.3 Hz) as a lock.  The encoder on your ht, also set to 141.3 is the key that opens the receiver and allows it to key the repeater transmitter, rebroadcasting your transmission over the repeater.

The term "encode" is generally associated with transmitting from a given ht or repeater and "decode" is associated with the receiver on a given ht or repeater.  You encode a 141.3 tone so the repeater's decoder set at 141.3 will open up and activate the repeater.  Likewise, most repeaters, as a convenience and courtesy to their end-users, will encode the same tone on their output.  In this example, we will say that when this hypothetical repeater begins transmitting, it is encoding a 141.3 tone on the output.  As many ht's (and mobiles or bases) have rather loose front ends (the part of your receiver that screens out a host of noise and interference sources), being able to set your ht's decoder to that output tone to keep your radio silent except for stuff coming through the repeater is a big deal for many.  Setting your ht's decoder to 141.3 on this repeater will greatly reduce annoyances from other repeaters, kids playing on FRS, intermod, spurious signals, etc, from coming through your speaker.  Unfortunately, some repeater owners neglect to set the encoders on their repeaters, forcing their end users to endure the aforementioned noise sources and more.  

Some repeater owners who limit access to their repeaters may encode one tone on the output and require a different tone on the input to make it more difficult for an unauthorized user to hack their tone by using tone scan.

Even if the repeater encodes a tone on its output, you have the option of leaving your decoder on your ht turned off if you desire, allowing you to hear other repeaters, simplex conversations on GMRS/FRS channel 15, etc.  Many repeaters have a Morse code automatic ID which will sound every 15 minutes during a conversation and at random times throughout the day and night.  As many repeater operators thoughtfully set their repeaters to not encode a tone during these random Morse ID's, setting your decoder on your ht can let you work, watch tv, and sleep better, if you have your radio on while doing those and other things.

 

I hope this was of some help.

[RayP]

9 hours ago, WRUU653 said:

 

 

[back4more70]

8 hours ago, jsneezy said:

467.675/462.675 with a CTCSS of 141.3 I believe was considered to be the settings for what used to be known as the Open Repeater Initiative. That seems to have gone away in recent years, but there are quite a few repeater owners trying to keep it alive. 

If a repeater has a different tone set on the encode side, you won't be able to open squelch on it. Generally, it's a better idea to find repeaters that you will be near and using, and program those into the radio. I do believe the travel tone (141.3) is still pretty widely used, but if none of the repeaters in your area are using that tone or trying to keep the ORI alive, you are pretty unlikely to get anyone. Generally, for road trips, I will see what repeaters are available along the way and around the destination and get those programmed into the radio before leaving.

Nailed it. There is no universal travel tone.  You could set 141.3 and drive past an antenna farm, but if none are set to 141.3, you won't reach anyone.

[SteveShannon]

49 minutes ago, back4more70 said:

Nailed it. There is no universal travel tone.  You could set 141.3 and drive past an antenna farm, but if none are set to 141.3, you won't reach anyone.

But you could set your radio to scan on the 467.xxx frequencies with no receive tone, and then, once you hear someone transmitting to the repeater, scan for tones, provided your radio supports scanning for tones.

[back4more70]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

But you could set your radio to scan on the 467.xxx frequencies with no receive tone, and then, once you hear someone transmitting to the repeater, scan for tones, provided your radio supports scanning for tones.

I could, but I'm too busy letting my wife tell me how to drive!

[jsneezy]

3 hours ago, back4more70 said:

I could, but I'm too busy letting my wife tell me how to drive!

If she hasn't started yelling about stopping to ask for directions, you're doing it wrong.