Spotsylvania Fredericksburg Club

[WSAQ694]

Anyone in the 540 area looking to start a club? I'd like to get a decent repeater for the county so we can have coverage without stepping on anyone else's toes. I guess I'm looking for a group of people who have the "prepper" mentality but also are down to earth and have the same nerdy fascination with GMRS as I do.

-WSAQ694

[hfd376]

There's a repeater in Fredericksburg I think is part of a club. Have you looked into that one?

[WSAH999]

19 minutes ago, hfd376 said:

There's a repeater in Fredericksburg I think is part of a club. Have you looked into that one?

Another thing to add to this, if there is even an amateur radio club in your area, a lot of those guys usually also run GMRS.

[marcspaz]

I tried to put a repeater up in Stafford, near the hospital, and the county turned it down. They said I couldn't put up an antenna structure any taller than our building. I couldn't find a commercial site willing to donate tower space. 

I'm not interested in starting a club, but I may be able to spend some resources on getting the repeater up sometime this year. Depending on how much my health improves, of course. 

[WRXR360]

For the most part, Bull Run (650) and Warrenton (725) serve the Stafford/Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania area fairly well if using 10 watts or more. I have heard some folks in south Stafford and even Spotsylvania hit the Warrenton repeater on a 5 watt H/T at times, if they are in a good (unobstructed higher elevation) location.

There is a private repeater in the south Stafford area that can be raised from at least north Stafford on a H/T, but I rarely hear anybody use that repeater (monitoring all day with a scanner). Other hitable repeaters from north Stafford are DC's (700), Falls Church's (675), and Blue Mountain's (600) - a very good repeater that is hardly used.

There are other repeaters north of me that I can hear very well with the right atmospheric conditions but are not hitable because of my lack of good antenna height and heavily wooded back yard.

[WSDI776]

I teach at Spotsylvania High School and I have an Amateur Radio Club(KK4WXX).  It's always difficult to get kids into HAM radio, but I was thinking that GMRS would be a good way to get students interested.  We are in the rural part of the county and have pretty spotty cell service.  

I doubt we could get an antenna up on one of the 175 ft water towers, but I could try.  The press box of the stadium or maybe the school building might be possible locations.  

[BoxCar]

41 minutes ago, WSDI776 said:

I teach at Spotsylvania High School and I have an Amateur Radio Club(KK4WXX).  It's always difficult to get kids into HAM radio, but I was thinking that GMRS would be a good way to get students interested.  We are in the rural part of the county and have pretty spotty cell service.  

I doubt we could get an antenna up on one of the 175 ft water towers, but I could try.  The press box of the stadium or maybe the school building might be possible locations.  

The issue is operating legally. As long as you control the station, students can operate it as a GMRS station.

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

The issue is operating legally. As long as you control the station, students can operate it as a GMRS station.

I know that’s true for ham radio operations, but is it also true for GMRS? I don’t recall seeing anything that says that in the regulations.

[BoxCar]

As I understand the rule, you are not sharing your license so others may operate independently as family. It's a single station, with you present allowing another to talk over the radio. As long as the students don't try to operate personal radios under your license it should be good. Also, the rules are silent about who may talk on a station with the license holder present.

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, BoxCar said:

As I understand the rule, you are not sharing your license so others may operate independently as family. It's a single station, with you present allowing another to talk over the radio. As long as the students don't try to operate personal radios under your license it should be good. Also, the rules are silent about who may talk on a station with the license holder present.

So the teacher pushes the PTT while the students speak?

[BoxCar]

Do you handle the PTT with a non-ham?

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

Do you handle the PTT with a non-ham?

No, but the amateur rules expressly allow third party communications under the constant supervision of a control operator (97.115).  GMRS regulations have nothing similar to that.  

[marcspaz]

I'm pretty sure Steve is correct on this one.

[SteveShannon]

53 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

I'm pretty sure Steve is correct on this one.

Thanks, Marc.

Allowing students to press the PTT and operate GMRS radios probably would never hurt a thing and I truly can’t imagine that it would bother most reasonable people, but unfortunately we live in a world with its share of jerks who always find something to complain about. If that happened to one of the students, or worse yet the instructor received a letter from the FCC, that could result in students not wanting to learn about radio. 
Amateur radio is specifically structured to foster such experiences including allowing very young people to become licensed.
And the opportunities to use it in a school setting far exceed any other radio service. Using ham radio my youngest daughter was able to ask a physiology question to an astronaut on the space station 23 years ago due to the efforts of her science teacher and although she never became a ham radio operator she did go on to get an advanced science related degree.

Recently, I held the microphone while my nine year old granddaughter spoke during a 40 meter net during Christmas break. She identified herself using phonetic characters and wished the other net participants a Merry Christmas. Her eyes lit up. Will she become a ham?  I don’t know, but she literally could study the questions and answers and become licensed now. She and her five year old brother also use my FRS radios when they’re here.  I see these services as supplementary to each other, rather than competing, but the rules favor ham radio in the classroom.
 

[BoxCar]

The rules don't prevent a 3rd party from operating the radio with the license holder present. 97.1705 states who may hold a license while 95.1743 excludes minors from responsibility for improper operation. Further complicating the scenario is the question of operating on FRS channels. Is the station still a GMRS unit or is it an FRS unit? Notwithstanding the fact the station equipment meets the specifications of a GMRS unit as it is not handheld and has a removable antenna makes it exceed the FRS equipment restrictions. However, this is all moot if the instructor provides FRS handheld radios to contact his station.

[marcspaz]

32 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

The rules don't prevent a 3rd party from operating the radio with the license holder present. 97.1705 states who may hold a license while 95.1743 excludes minors from responsibility for improper operation. 

 

I am out and about right now, so I can't look up the actual code. The rules very specifically state who can use (share) your license/radio, being limited to immediate family. 

[WRUU653]

I know a ham who's dog is frequently a third party operator. I only wish I could get mine interested in radios.

[Davichko5650]

28 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

I know a ham who's dog is frequently a third party operator. I only wish I could get mine interested in radios.

Like our Sat Nite NCS, his French Bulldog's name is Toast, so he always calls him KT0AST, and adds a couple arf' arf's for him. Dunno what he'd do if somebody grabbed that as a vanity call...

[GrouserPad]

12 hours ago, Davichko5650 said:

Like our Sat Nite NCS, his French Bulldog's name is Toast, so he always calls him KT0AST, and adds a couple arf' arf's for him. Dunno what he'd do if somebody grabbed that as a vanity call...

Bahahahah this is great 

[SteveShannon]

15 hours ago, BoxCar said:

The rules don't prevent a 3rd party from operating the radio with the license holder present. 97.1705 states who may hold a license while 95.1743 excludes minors from responsibility for improper operation. Further complicating the scenario is the question of operating on FRS channels. Is the station still a GMRS unit or is it an FRS unit? Notwithstanding the fact the station equipment meets the specifications of a GMRS unit as it is not handheld and has a removable antenna makes it exceed the FRS equipment restrictions. However, this is all moot if the instructor provides FRS handheld radios to contact his station.

Actually, 95.1705 not only specifies who may hold a license but also specifically lists whom that license holder may authorize to use his or her stations.  Third parties are not listed, unlike for amateur radio. If they aren’t listed, the license holder may not authorize them to operate the license holder’s stations. It’s that simple. There’s a broad list of family members and in an emergency the license holder may authorize anyone. Also, while 95.1743 excludes minors from responsibility it goes on to state that the license holder has full responsibility for the minor’s actions while operating the station.

This is absolutely not complicated by operating on “FRS channels” because there is no such distinction; all of the FRS channels are also GMRS channels. If the radio used is certified for GMRS the GMRS rules must be followed, regardless of channel used, output power, antenna permanence, or any other characteristic.

I absolutely agree that the instructor avoids all of this by using certified FRS radios.

And yes, I realize that none of the above rules are likely to be enforced, but I think GMRS license holders should understand them correctly anyway.