Joined My First Net: Tx from my HT needs boosting

[Webslinger]

Participated in my first GMRS net this evening. I could hear most stations really well, but when my turn came to join in, Net Control advised that much of my Tx was broken up. He heard parts only. 

Curious as to why I could hear Net Control and other stations so clearly, but when it came my turn, my signal was broken up?

I have a KG-935G Plus. Replaced the rubber duck with a Nagoya NA-771G, which helped with reception on this net when compared to last week when the rubber duck could not receiving anything. 

With that said, what more can I do with the HT I have to increase my signal strength? Someday I plan to install a base station, but that's a month or two away. Might a mag mount with the right antenna work from home? What about a Smiley Super Stick IV? 

Any thoughts?

[OffRoaderX]

2 minutes ago, Webslinger said:

Curious as to why I could hear Net Control and other stations so clearly, but when it came my turn, my signal was in and out?

Because they all have a better signal/are closer to the repeater than you, and you have an HT with a small antenna/are further away/have more stuff between you and the repeater.

The best thing you can do is connect to a bigger/better/external antenna or get closer to the repeater.  A mag mount stuck to a cookie-sheet placed up high/near a window can work great.

[WRXR360]

Check (high/low) power setting, and if possible, measure power output for the particular repeater (467) channel. Probably not the problem in your situation, but always verify transmit settings.

If it is not leaving good... Well, you know the thing,,,  

[WRYZ926]

I ran with a mag mount mobile antenna on a cookie sheet until I was able to get my base antennas installed. The mobile on a cookie sheet works pretty good.

The local repeater tower (21.5 miles away) has 2m, 70cm, and GMRS setup. I can always get into and be heard on 2m with my HT. I can forget about the 70cm repeater with my HT. The GMRS repeater is hit or miss on getting in and being heard on my HT. Hooking the HT's to a mobile mag mount antenna or base antennas all work fine.

[Darmie]

12 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

 A mag mount stuck to a cookie-sheet placed up high/near a window can work great.

Great idea. I'll give that a try.

 

Now for some reason my wife is asking where all her cookie sheets have disappeared to.  

 

[Webslinger]

13 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

A mag mount stuck to a cookie-sheet placed up high/near a window can work great.

That sounds like a plan. On the BTWR website, I found the Nagoya RB-MJPL Strong Mobile Mag Mount Base and the NL-770G High Gain Mobile GMRS Antenna. Looks like I need a pigtail to connect my HT, and of course the one I need are out of stock. But, looks like that combo should do the trick. If you have other mag mount/antenna suggestions, please let me know.  

3 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

I ran with a mag mount mobile antenna on a cookie sheet until I was able to get my base antennas installed. The mobile on a cookie sheet works pretty good.

The local repeater tower (21.5 miles away) has 2m, 70cm, and GMRS setup. I can always get into and be heard on 2m with my HT. I can forget about the 70cm repeater with my HT. The GMRS repeater is hit or miss on getting in and being heard on my HT. Hooking the HT's to a mobile mag mount antenna or base antennas all work fine.

That is exactly my scenario. Thanks for posting that info. 

[WRPG745]

This Tram 1185 dual band has served me well. (Cookie sheet mount in front of a west facing, second story window.)

Using a UV5X3 I hit GMRS repeaters south and east of me at 15 miles, I easily hit VHF repeaters on high ground at 25+ miles.

using my KG805 or my TYT 8600 I do slightly better.

Eventually I'll have an antenna up on the roof eave, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

[nokones]

19 hours ago, Webslinger said:

Participated in my first GMRS net this evening. I could hear most stations really well, but when my turn came to join in, Net Control advised that much of my Tx was broken up. He heard parts only. 

Curious as to why I could hear Net Control and other stations so clearly, but when it came my turn, my signal was broken up?

I have a KG-935G Plus. Replaced the rubber duck with a Nagoya NA-771G, which helped with reception on this net when compared to last week when the rubber duck could not receiving anything. 

With that said, what more can I do with the HT I have to increase my signal strength? Someday I plan to install a base station, but that's a month or two away. Might a mag mount with the right antenna work from home? What about a Smiley Super Stick IV? 

Any thoughts?

From what location and to which repeater?

[WSAM454]

Just a comment:

The mag mount you mentioned comes with 13' of RG58 cable, which will have an approximate 1dB loss.   That means that you will be loosing about 20% of your power from the radio, so if you are really putting out the full 5 watts, only 4 will reach the antenna.   The antenna you mentioned does have more gain that the one mounted on the radio, so overall, it might bring the output up to about 6 Watts, which might be enough to make it into the repeater, but just be aware that if you were that noisy it may not be.  Find the best place for the cookie sheet and antenna and keep it there.  The base station radio (more power) you have planned will be most useful !

[Webslinger]

4 hours ago, WRPG745 said:

 

4 hours ago, WRPG745 said:

This Tram 1185 dual band has served me well. (Cookie sheet mount in front of a west facing, second story window.)

Using a UV5X3 I hit GMRS repeaters south and east of me at 15 miles, I easily hit VHF repeaters on high ground at 25+ miles.

using my KG805 or my TYT 8600 I do slightly better.

Eventually I'll have an antenna up on the roof eave, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

 

Nice! Pretty much how I envisioned it. Simple. Thanks for the info. 

[Webslinger]

1 hour ago, nokones said:

From what location and to which repeater?

This is in Utah. Sandy to Mt. Ogden 43.5 miles as the crow flies. 

[Webslinger]

55 minutes ago, WSAM454 said:

Just a comment:

The mag mount you mentioned comes with 13' of RG58 cable, which will have an approximate 1dB loss.   That means that you will be loosing about 20% of your power from the radio, so if you are really putting out the full 5 watts, only 4 will reach the antenna.   The antenna you mentioned does have more gain that the one mounted on the radio, so overall, it might bring the output up to about 6 Watts, which might be enough to make it into the repeater, but just be aware that if you were that noisy it may not be.  Find the best place for the cookie sheet and antenna and keep it there.  The base station radio (more power) you have planned will be most useful !

Thank you for pointing that out. Is there a better mag mount antenna setup you would recommend? If not, can I shorten the RG58 cable to reduce some of that loss?

[WSAM454]

Cutting off a few feet would help, but probably not too much.  I mainly wanted to make you aware of the significance of cable loss at UHF (450MHz an up) frequencies.  The gain antenna type you quoted is about the best you will find in a mobile antenna, but for your final base station, I would go with a gain antenna mounted on the roof, in the clear.   Someone should be able to offer some brand name and model suggestions. 

Depending on the cable run from it to the radio, (over 50-75 feet)  you might consider a low-loss cable.  LMR 400 is a favorite and more reasonably priced than what has become the lowest loss flexible cable available today, M & P's Ultraflex 10.   Avoid any of the RG-58 or 8X size ( approx. 1/4" diameter) cable for long runs.

[SteveShannon]

RG58 is lossy at GMRS frequencies, 10.6 dB per 100 feet compared to 2.7 dB per 100 feet for LMR-400, so you definitely don’t want to use it for any long runs, but the practical difference between 5 watts and 4 watts is indistinguishable.  Cutting off a couple feet won’t make a difference.  If you cannot reliably reach a repeater with four watts, you won’t be able to with five watts. 

[WRYZ926]

The Comet CA-712EFC antenna is poplar GMRS base antenna. It is advertised as having 9dBi of gain and is tuned for GMRS. That is what I am using for my base antenna. 24-25 miles seems to be the max distance on simplex channels here in rural central Missouri. The guy I talk to at that distance is using the same antenna. His is on his tower about 35 feet up while mine is on my roof at 18 feet. We are both using Wouxun KG-1000G radios on high power.

According to this website: https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/ we are just barely making it over the terrain for direct line of sight.

Our GMRS repeater is 21.5 miles away from me and the antennas are at 400 feet above ground.

[SteveShannon]

20 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

The Comet CA-712EFC antenna is poplar GMRS base antenna. It is advertised as having 9dBi of gain and is tuned for GMRS. That is what I am using for my base antenna. 24-25 miles seems to be the max distance on simplex channels here in rural central Missouri. The guy I talk to at that distance is using the same antenna. His is on his tower about 35 feet up while mine is on my roof at 18 feet. We are both using Wouxun KG-1000G radios on high power.

According to this website: https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/ we are just barely making it over the terrain for direct line of sight.

Our GMRS repeater is 21.5 miles away from me and the antennas are at 400 feet above ground.

Great point and one I should have mentioned.  

[Webslinger]

6 hours ago, WSAM454 said:

Cutting off a few feet would help, but probably not too much.  I mainly wanted to make you aware of the significance of cable loss at UHF (450MHz an up) frequencies.  The gain antenna type you quoted is about the best you will find in a mobile antenna, but for your final base station, I would go with a gain antenna mounted on the roof, in the clear.   Someone should be able to offer some brand name and model suggestions. 

Depending on the cable run from it to the radio, (over 50-75 feet)  you might consider a low-loss cable.  LMR 400 is a favorite and more reasonably priced than what has become the lowest loss flexible cable available today, M & P's Ultraflex 10.   Avoid any of the RG-58 or 8X size ( approx. 1/4" diameter) cable for long runs.

Thank you for this info.