Do roger beeps confuse repeaters?

[kapoijerj334]

I've heard this claim (roger beeps confuse the repeater) multiple times now as a way to justify telling other people to turn off their roger beep.

I know nothing about radios, nor do I care about roger beeps, but it seems unlikely to me that manufacturers of repeater radios are so incompetent as to be incapable of making their repeater in such a way as to not get confused by this nearly ubiquitous and simple feature.

Am I wrong?

[WRYZ926]

Roger beeps will not confuse a repeater, or at least they don't with my club's repeater. People are probably saying that just to get others to turn off the Roger beep.

[marcspaz]

Do roger beeps confuse repeaters?  My opinion... it's possible.  Depends on the controller.  Most repeaters have a controller for remote control (required by our overlords at the FCC to be 'in control' of the repeater at all times).  Many of the modern controllers use digital signals for remote function, but near all of them still have analog function, typically done with DTMF codes. 

 

Depending on what your roger beep sounds like, you could risk partially triggering a remote command, putting the repeater in an unknown state, making it so the owner or admins can't manage it.  Then they need to drive to the repeater site and either reboot the controller or the repeater.

 

That said, I think the number one reason is because a good portion of the people listening, including the owners, don't want to hear a stead stream of beeping all day on the repeater.  It gets pretty annoying and people clearly have no idea what a roger beep is for... which is to send a quick blip to acknowledge the previously receive transmission without actually saying anything.  Especially for conditions when the two stations are on the fringes of their range and voice comms are difficult.  It was never intended to be used on every transmission.  Though, Sad Hams will tell you a different story.

[Socalgmrs]

No roger peeps do not confuse repeaters. Repeaters use sun audible signals no where near a river beep.    But many repeater owners ask them to be turned off.  Can you imagine a busy repeater with 200 people all using roger beeps all day.  Most people I talk to consider roger beeps as a sign of being a Rookie with a Bubble back radio from Walmart.  Or a jerk who wants to annoy people.  As already stated they have a purpose but it’s not for every day all day use. 

[nokones]

It is my understanding that the "Roger Beep" tone(s) will and have interfered with the control of some Linked Repeater Links.

[WRQC527]

24 minutes ago, adnjacob said:

I've heard this claim (roger beeps confuse the repeater)

I would put this claim in the same category as "always get gas in the morning while the gas is denser" and "always keep a crayon in your wallet".

[WRXB215]

43 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Though, Sad Hams will tell you a different story.

I'm glad you aren't a Sad Ham. It's nice to get strait answers. 

 

4 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

"always get gas in the morning while the gas is denser" and "always keep a crayon in your wallet"

Did the first one this morning. Now to find a crayon. 

[Guest]

Rodger Beeps are a devastating feature with adverse emotional impacts on the Sad-Ham and other radio communities!

In a more technical way, those audible outbursts are a nuance to many ears and violate many Sad-Hams expectation of HiFi audio communication. As such, they fall into similar categories as having to deal with unskilled users that "just want to true their new radio" regardless of the fact that the attempt is challenging in the best of conditions.

In an attempt to make Radio HiFi (again) we need to overcome our misguided urges to use folksy features such as roger beeps, attempt reaching repeaters with HTs equipped with stock antennas, or to transmit from radio shacks that are not designed for highest reliability of connection and clearest audio levels!!!

The struggle is real !!!

Down with the Beep - NOW !!!

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, WRXD372 said:

attempt reaching repeaters with HTs equipped with stock antennas

On a related note, don't forget my favorite, using an HT inside a car and expecting your signal to reach more than ten feet.

[kapoijerj334]

2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

Do roger beeps confuse repeaters?  My opinion... it's possible.  Depends on the controller.  Most repeaters have a controller for remote control (required by our overlords at the FCC to be 'in control' of the repeater at all times).  Many of the modern controllers use digital signals for remote function, but near all of them still have analog function, typically done with DTMF codes. 

 

Depending on what your roger beep sounds like, you could risk partially triggering a remote command, putting the repeater in an unknown state, making it so the owner or admins can't manage it.  Then they need to drive to the repeater site and either reboot the controller or the repeater.

 

That said, I think the number one reason is because a good portion of the people listening, including the owners, don't want to hear a stead stream of beeping all day on the repeater.  It gets pretty annoying and people clearly have no idea what a roger beep is for... which is to send a quick blip to acknowledge the previously receive transmission without actually saying anything.  Especially for conditions when the two stations are on the fringes of their range and voice comms are difficult.  It was never intended to be used on every transmission.  Though, Sad Hams will tell you a different story.

 

Interesting, thanks. Have you ever heard of such an incident ever actually occurring? It sounds like what you're saying is that a roger beep will impact a repeater about as often as the planets align, right?

[kapoijerj334]

2 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

No roger peeps do not confuse repeaters. Repeaters use sun audible signals no where near a river beep.    But many repeater owners ask them to be turned off.  Can you imagine a busy repeater with 200 people all using roger beeps all day.  Most people I talk to consider roger beeps as a sign of being a Rookie with a Bubble back radio from Walmart.  Or a jerk who wants to annoy people.  As already stated they have a purpose but it’s not for every day all day use. 

I have a 30' comet antenna in a large metro area that I put up a few weeks ago and I typically have my radio on scan all day long and other than repeater traffic I pick up FRS traffic all day long. All of them have roger beeps, I hear it all day long all the time and it doesn't bother me at all. If I had any opinion at all, it would be confusion over why people get so hot and bothered by it. 

I also understand "my repeater my rules". It's all good, but my BS meter went thru the roof when I heard the "roger beep confuses the repeater" claim. 

[kapoijerj334]

2 hours ago, nokones said:

It is my understanding that the "Roger Beep" tone(s) will and have interfered with the control of some Linked Repeater Links.

Do you know of a particular incident and what specifically happened?

[OffRoaderX]

More lies perpetrated by the Sad-H.A.M. cartels.

[WSBZ540]

Unless your roger beep is the dtmf tones to 'mary had a littte lamb', its not likely going to cause problems.

As a radio user (ham, gmrs, frs, muuuuuuuurs, cb), I don't like the actual tones of the boofwang radio roger beep, but I do prefer a roger beep when talking to someone, especially on simplex. On weak signals if I don't hear a beep I assume they dropped out and will come right back. If I hear the beep, I know they released the ptt. Otherwise, you just talk over them, which happens frequently on 2m simplex or repeaters.

Sad hams just don't like the roger beep.

[WRYZ926]

I've been know to turn the Roger beep on while using the local 2m or 70cm repeaters whenever I hear an old curmudgeon complain about how GMRS is as bad as CB. Yeah I can be ornery and like to sometimes mess with the cranky codgers. Or I turn the Roger beep on to mess with friends.

We have our 2m, 70cm and GMRS repeaters located in the same rack and we have never had any issues with the repeaters due to someone using Roger beeps.

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, adnjacob said:

 

Interesting, thanks. Have you ever heard of such an incident ever actually occurring? It sounds like what you're saying is that a roger beep will impact a repeater about as often as the planets align, right?

 

Someone actually turned my transmitter off on one of my repeaters last year. They were using DTMF 1111 as a quick burst preamble and that was the default combination for the disable command on the repeater. I also had someone have a DTMF code setup as a roger beep and coincidentally happened to be the same combination I made up to stun the repeater. I had to drive to the repeater site to reset it on the panel. 

[back4more70]

12 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Someone actually turned my transmitter off on one of my repeaters last year. They were using DTMF 1111 as a quick burst preamble and that was the default combination for the disable command on the repeater. I also had someone have a DTMF code setup as a roger beep and coincidentally happened to be the same combination I made up to stun the repeater. I had to drive to the repeater site to reset it on the panel. 

You may want to reset the combinations on your luggage while you're at it, Mr. 1234 

[MarkInTampa]

One of our local repeaters has two input frequencies do to occasional interference on the primary. A few weeks ago they put a high-low beep on end of transmission on one input and a low-high beep on the other so he could figure out what input was being used. It's still causing a bit of chaos, users blaming other users of have their roger beep turned or thinking their own roger beep is turned on. What's even funnier is if they do have a roger beep enabled, then you hear at least 3 tones at the end of each transmission. It's finally calmed down a bit - instead of of ten folks a a day asking what the tones are it's down to one or two.

[ULTRA2]

12 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

I also had someone have a DTMF code setup as a roger beep and coincidentally happened to be the same combination I made up to stun the repeater. I had to drive to the repeater site to reset it on the panel. 

Other question will the MDC tones on some of the HT also interfere with the repeaters?

[OffRoaderX]

16 minutes ago, ULTRA2 said:

will the MDC tones on some of the HT also interfere with the repeaters?

99.9999998% of the time, NO...

[marcspaz]

58 minutes ago, ULTRA2 said:

Other question will the MDC tones on some of the HT also interfere with the repeaters?

 

I'm with Randy on this one. Falls into the old category of "nothing is impossible but definitely improbable."

[nokones]

4 hours ago, adnjacob said:

Do you know of a particular incident and what specifically happened?

Let me check my notes for the specific dates and times and of course the exact details and I'll get back to you as quickly as I can.

[nokones]

2 hours ago, WSBZ540 said:

Unless your roger beep is the dtmf tones to 'mary had a littte lamb', its not likely going to cause problems.

As a radio user (ham, gmrs, frs, muuuuuuuurs, cb), I don't like the actual tones of the boofwang radio roger beep, but I do prefer a roger beep when talking to someone, especially on simplex. On weak signals if I don't hear a beep I assume they dropped out and will come right back. If I hear the beep, I know they released the ptt. Otherwise, you just talk over them, which happens frequently on 2m simplex or repeaters.

Sad hams just don't like the roger beep.

Back in the day (many decades ago) with the use of Single (Burst) Tones (there were five tones to select from 1800-2552 Hz), I use to tone out Mary Had A Little Lamp on the air.

[nokones]

1 hour ago, OffRoaderX said:

99.9999998% of the time, NO...

That means there is about a .0000002% chance that it could affect a repeater.

[kapoijerj334]

14 minutes ago, nokones said:

Let me check my notes for the specific dates and times and of course the exact details and I'll get back to you as quickly as I can.

Dear sir, please forgive me for not immediately having full faith and confidence in a random claim from a random internet person. Respectfully submitted.