Linking GMRS Repeaters

[UncleYoda]

2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

I don't like the idea of linking any repeaters for the sake of rag-chewing... but there is some practical applications that many seem to overlook.

Anybody can come up with scenarios where any use could be helpful.  The issue is, is GMRS as specified in the regs, the right service for your usage scenario.  If not, and you want FCC to make a change, then propose that.  Just going rogue because it suits your purpose makes you a radio outlaw.

 

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Also, people keep saying linking repeaters is illegal and it is not.  It is 100% legal.  There is, however, a rule against using networks to link repeaters.  You can do RF linking over GMRS frequencies (which uses more bandwidth, not a very friendly idea) or you can link repeaters over another radio service that you are licensed for.

Part of the the issue is just the precise meaning of what "illegal" means in this context.  We should refer to violation rather than illegal since it is about regulations.  But I think it is generally understood that illegal in the radio context means violating FCC regs.

Linking over RF is not explicitly prohibited in the wording of the regs.  But it is at least discouraged in the rule clarification where it explains any linking is bad.  As far as I have ever heard or read, starting with ham, mixing radio services is prohibited by regulation.  There are no other frequencies that I know of that can legally (haha) carry GMRS conversations.  If you know of some, can you list the frequency and/or the service?

 

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If you don't like how the radio service is used near you, then don't use it.

Sounds a lot like "our country, love it or leave it".  Leaving if you don't like how it is used would be fine IF EVERYONE WAS FOLLOWING THE RULES.  Leaving because some people want to break the rules is just running away rather than fighting.

[WRUE951]

6 hours ago, marcspaz said:

 

I'm sure you folks are getting great coverage where you are, but there are a lot a variables that make it so that works in those situations. It becomes problematic for a vast majority of the US.

 

The Calif High Desert offers a lot of locations with good elevation and wide open valleys.  One repeater here siting on a 4500 foot mountain top  (El Paso)  can talk Palmdale - Lone Pine about 160 miles (Repeater sitting about center point).   I've heard people talking on this repeater on HT's standing at Whitney Portals on the same path.   I think dry weather has a lot of benefit to talk distance as well.  

[WRYZ926]

7 hours ago, marcspaz said:

We have one of our antennas 1,000 feet above average terrain and we are barely pushing it a 45 miles, with dead spots inside that coverage area due to terrain.  That particular repeater is known throughout the mid-Atlantic for being one of the top 3 repeaters, even when we include amateur radio coverage, and the top coverage repeater for GMRS in the area.  Due to the terrain limits here, people/companies running farms need networked radios for reliable coverage and most of them are using commercial radio for it.

Our 70cm antenna is at 900 feet and we get about a 35-40 mile radius of coverage. Our GMRS antenna is at 400 feet and we get 30-35 mile radio of coverage. And both bands have same dead spots depending on the terrain and trees.

Our 2m antenna is also at 900 feet and we get a 80-85 mile radius with it. I mention it to show the difference between VHF and UHF. The 2m and 70cm repeaters actually use the same set of antennas and go into a diplexer.

[WRXB215]

10 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

I make my living working this type of scenario (huge ranches) and I’ve never come across a ranch big enough that a single repeater won’t cut it.  I mean 50w does over 200miles.  Most ranches I’ve been to from central California to Texas and Alabama run 20-40w used motorola repeaters.   They are mooooore then enough for a few 1000 acres most cover well into town and adjacent ranches.

Next time you are in Texas, set up a repeater at Hughes Apache Ranch please.

[amaff]

On 9/17/2024 at 11:51 AM, Herebyproxy said:

Here in North Georgia we have a 25 linked repeater business. And yes, it has turned into a lucrative business charging almost 100 bucks a year for access for 1 user. On their face book page they have stated that they are operating within the regulations and they are not going to unlink the repeaters until they are forced to.....Interesting that gmrs repeater owners are allowed to use the service for profit.

Apparently someone's had enough 

 

[marcspaz]

I would love to tell them that linking over a network is a rule violation, not a law violation, and linking repeaters via analog non-routed RF is assumed to not be a rule violation (legal), since its not explicitly denied in the rules.

 

Now, linking repeaters across the northern part of the state and monopolizing every channel is a @$$h0l3 move... which should be the real topic.

[OffRoaderX]

1 minute ago, marcspaz said:

linking repeaters across the norther part of the state and monopolizing every channel is a @$$h0l3 move

Wait.. How does linking a repeater across multiple states monopolize every channel?

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, OffRoaderX said:

Wait.. How does linking a repeater across multiple states monopolize every channel?

 

Phrased they way you did, it likely wouldn't. However, in the reddit post, several people implied (or maybe I inferred) that the club/group/whatever has every repeater pair used on their network, making it almost impossible for anyone else to standup their own repeater anywhere in North Georgia due to capture effect on the mobiles in the area. Im sure the capture effect causes problems on simplex and same channel repeater inputs, too.

 

Of course, I am summarizing an interpretation of what I read and sharing an opinion based on that interpretation, assuming it's true.

 

 

[WRUE951]

2 hours ago, amaff said:

Apparently someone's had enough 

 

New York and Jersey runs circles around Georgia in linked repeaters..  Linking is happening in almost every state..  The worst i think, New York  

[amaff]

48 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Of course, I am summarizing an interpretation of what I read and sharing an opinion based on that interpretation, assuming it's true.

It's true around the big population centers at least, per my family in the area. 15-22 are basically useless because every repeater channel is repeating the same message from some guy on the other side of the state talking about his genital warts or whatever it is rag chewers like to go on about.

[WRKC935]

19 hours ago, amaff said:

It's true around the big population centers at least, per my family in the area. 15-22 are basically useless because every repeater channel is repeating the same message from some guy on the other side of the state talking about his genital warts or whatever it is rag chewers like to go on about.

Gee that sounds like a ham radio conversation. 

Seriously, at a bare minimum the way to report it is saying that the repeaters are being keyed with out the person accessing them being within the coverage footprint of the repeater.  This is causing harmful interference on that frequency / frequencies in a specific location or area.  That is spelled out in the blurb the FCC put on the their web site about why they don't want people linking repeaters.  No way to monitor the frequency in use before accessing it and causing interference. 

Mind you I am all for linking GMRS repeaters, and have even come up with ways to mitigate this and other issues that were cited as being the problems with linking.  But the FCC says the rules are what they are, so until they change the rules, I don't link repeaters. 

Now I will say this, that group has backed themselves into a corner.  If someone is interfering with their linked repeater system, they have ZERO recourse to deal with it.  It's like having a house full of drugs and calling the cops because someone stole their bag of weed.  The FCC is the only governing body with GMRS.  If they call the FCC, then they open themselves up to being looked at for what THEY are doing.  So that's not really an option for them.  Local police and government in general have no ability to enforce FCC regulations.

So, the option they are left with is the redneck thought process of "I'm gonna *insert dumb redneck statement of violence here* and that will get it done.   Of course the problem with that is the local police DO have the ability to deal with that.  And although I'm not sure what Georgia's laws are but if they are like Florida then doing that sort of thing might involve a free trip to a hospital or even the grave yard.  While people may claim that they will just go drag them into their yard and throw them a beating, it's rarely done for that reason.  And can escalate quickly if they do.  And the police will still not give a rip about the GMRS interference, the assault, battery, menacing and all that WILL get a response.

[amaff]

4 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

And the police will still not give a rip about the GMRS interference, the assault, battery, menacing and all that WILL get a response.

Bingo.

[WRUE951]

6 minutes ago, amaff said:

Bingo.

They (police) did one time here when a 70 year old jack wad started cursing at two kids talking on the radio Ch3.. The kids dad, with help from some of us who knows this menacing idiot gave the dad information who and where he lived..  The dad had a recording and took it to the police..  The police made a visit to the idiot, it shut him up for a few months.. He is now occasionaly out there jamming repeaters and making belching and farting noises over radio conversions..  We no longer hear him cursing and harrasing young kids anymore..  

[amaff]

2 hours ago, WRUE951 said:

They (police) did one time here when a 70 year old jack wad started cursing at two kids talking on the radio Ch3.....We no longer hear him cursing and harrasing young kids anymore..  

As usual, it's got little to do with the radio usage, and a lot more to do with what he was actually doing (ie: harassing kids). If it wasn't kids, would they have done anything? Because it doesn't sound like it's stopped his general radio dickery. He just realized that screwing with people's kids MIGHT be a step too far.

[WRUE951]

47 minutes ago, amaff said:

As usual, it's got little to do with the radio usage, and a lot more to do with what he was actually doing (ie: harassing kids). If it wasn't kids, would they have done anything? Because it doesn't sound like it's stopped his general radio dickery. He just realized that screwing with people's kids MIGHT be a step too far.

I think the dad has close ties with the PD, which is fine in my book.. Nothing will stop this guy but at least he stoped bothering kids..  I think the real issue with this guy is on the mental side.  So we live with him making his rounds jamming repeaters..   This guy has an Extra Ham lic so its a bit more  strange why he plays these games.