Linking GMRS Repeaters

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, WRUQ758 said:

Found this:

§ 90.461 - Direct and remote control of transmitters.

(a) In general. Radio transmitters may be operated and controlled directly (as when the operating position for the transmitter and the transmitter being operated are at the same location), or remotely (as when the transmitter being operated and the position from which it is being operated are at different locations).

(b) Control of transmitters at remote locations. Radio transmitters at remote locations may be operated and controlled through the use of wire line or radio links; or through dial-up circuits, as provided in paragraph (c) of this section. Such control links or circuits may be either those of the licensee or they may be provided by common carriers authorized by law to furnish such service.

(c) Dial-up circuits. Dial-up circuits may be provided by wire line telephone companies under appropriate tariffs, and they may be used by licensees for purposes of transmitter control, provided:

(1) The dial-up circuits serve only to link licensed transmitter control points and the transmitters being controlled.

(2) The dial-up circuits are so designed that the transmitters being controlled cannot be operated from any fixed position other than the licensed control points for those transmitters.

(3) Equipment used to provide the transmitter/dial-up-circuit interface is designed to preclude associated mobile units of the licensee from reaching any point(s) served by the wire line telephone facilities other than the control point(s) of the station(s) controlled.

(4) Any direct electrical connection to the telephone network shall comply with applicable tariffs and with part 68 of the Commission's Rules (See § 90.5(j)).

(5) Interconnection, within the meaning of §§ 90.7 and 90.477 through 90.483, may not take place at a control point which connects to its associated transmitter(s) through dial-up circuits; nor may such dial-up transmitter control circuits be used in conjunction with (or shared by) interconnection equipment.

This is for Part 90. GMRS is Part 95. The rules and definitions of terms from one to the next vary, since Part 90 regulates things like public safety and business radio while Part 95 regulates personal radio services.

[WRYB563]

This sounds like a good reason for folks to get their ham ticket, and possibly a DMR radio.  Linked repeaters and phone patches were great in the pre-cell phone days, and now DMR lets you connect to anywhere in the world from a repeater or hotspot.

[Herebyproxy]

Here in North Georgia we have a 25 linked repeater business. And yes, it has turned into a lucrative business charging almost 100 bucks a year for access for 1 user. On their face book page they have stated that they are operating within the regulations and they are not going to unlink the repeaters until they are forced to.....Interesting that gmrs repeater owners are allowed to use the service for profit.

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, Herebyproxy said:

Interesting that gmrs repeater owners are allowed to use the service for profit.

My understanding of the regulations leads me to believe that profiting is not allowed. Recuperating costs is though. The cost of establishing and supporting 25 linked repeaters seems like it would be pretty high though. Are you sure they’re taking a profit?  They might just be pouring money back into their network and accumulating some for unforeseen future use. If they’re organized as a non-profit that’s probably what they’re doing. 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

1 hour ago, Herebyproxy said:

Here in North Georgia we have a 25 linked repeater business. And yes, it has turned into a lucrative business charging almost 100 bucks a year for access for 1 user. On their face book page they have stated that they are operating within the regulations and they are not going to unlink the repeaters until they are forced to.....Interesting that gmrs repeater owners are allowed to use the service for profit.

So my question about this system. What could they do if you talk on the North Georgia system if you're not a member. 

[MaxHeadroom]

On 9/17/2024 at 2:03 PM, SteveShannon said:

My understanding of the regulations leads me to believe that profiting is not allowed. Recuperating costs is though. The cost of establishing and supporting 25 linked repeaters seems like it would be pretty high though. Are you sure they’re taking a profit?  They might just be pouring money back into their network and accumulating some for unforeseen future use. If they’re organized as a non-profit that’s probably what they’re doing. 

Doesn’t matter. 25 repeaters in that part of the state is exactly why the FCC is deciding to “clarify” since 25 divided by 8 means even with properly spaced out repeaters there’s no free channels and reuse of each one 3 times… for money. Where does the family repeater owner go then that wants their GR1225 on their roof for the neighborhood? 

[WRUE951]

14 hours ago, MaxHeadroom said:

Doesn’t matter. 25 repeaters in that part of the state is exactly why the FCC is deciding to “clarify” since 25 divided by 8 means even with properly spaced out repeaters there’s no free channels and reuse of each one 3 times… for money. Where does the family repeater owner go then that wants their GR1225 on their roof for the neighborhood? 

Yup,,,,,,  Outlaws don't give a $hit..  They'll steal your money and rape your sister.     

[tjcloer]

I live in North GA as well. I've expressed my opinion on here before, probably on a different of the now 10,000 threads on this matter. I hear the same conversation on all but 1 repeater channel, and if I wasn't in the valley I live in, I would most likely hear it on that one, too. It's beyond annoying. I listen to their conversations from time to time and they're pretty friendly to folks that aren't members, but I've only heard a couple non-members pop in and I imagine they'd frown on continued use without a membership. Their network stretches from part of Tennessee all the way down into parts of Florida. I admire their desire to make such a large network and the sheer work it takes to build and maintain something like that is impressive, but to do that on a spectrum that has a grand total of 8 channels for repeaters is a little bit stupid in my book.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Uncle Charlie definitely frowns on people trying to own entire bands.

 

Again, the actions of a few spoiling something that could benefit many.

[MarkInTampa]

GMRS Live to shut down on Monday, Sept 30. Statement is on his webpage...

https://www.gmrslive.com/

 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

On 9/17/2024 at 12:55 PM, WRYB563 said:

This sounds like a good reason for folks to get their ham ticket, and possibly a DMR radio.  Linked repeaters and phone patches were great in the pre-cell phone days, and now DMR lets you connect to anywhere in the world from a repeater or hotspot.

I'm working on getting my Ham now. I passed all the mock test. I know nothing about DMR however. 

[Raybestos]

1 hour ago, MarkInTampa said:

GMRS Live to shut down on Monday, Sept 30. Statement is on his webpage...

https://www.gmrslive.com/

 

That was interesting!  Wish I could have read all of it.  Unfortunately their webmaster didn't understand the importance of having a decent contrast between the background and the lettering on the latter portion.

Hilarious that they blame OffRoaderX for their problems when he was just the messenger.  I guess there really are people still who would "shoot the messenger". 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

2 hours ago, MarkInTampa said:

GMRS Live to shut down on Monday, Sept 30. Statement is on his webpage...

https://www.gmrslive.com/

 

A shame. I hope they keep the Station ID part of it up because I use that on my Zello Channel with no Radio Traffic 

 

[SteveShannon]

7 minutes ago, Raybestos said:

That was interesting!  Wish I could have read all of it.  Unfortunately their webmaster didn't understand the importance of having a decent contrast between the background and the lettering on the latter portion.

Hilarious that they blame OffRoaderX for their problems when he was just the messenger.  I guess there really are people still who would "shoot the messenger". 

I agree that it came off as whining about @OffRoaderX.

It renders correctly on a tablet, but certainly isn’t legible on a phone.  Here are the last several paragraphs that you couldn’t read, with all rights belonging to GMRSlive.com:

”You have many other groups that used it as a money making thing. Hell before Texas did what they did they told me they had thousands in the bank. These groups charge for everything. Membership fees, advertising and fees for using there repeaters are just a few. GMRS Live had none of this. We didn’t allow advertising to make money off our users. I promoted one company that makes a good product but we were in no way part of them. They did send a node for me to try out.

For just over 4 years I accessed and maintained this network daily trying to keep it running smoothly. In the beginning we paid all the bills. We finally had to add a donation button. Be we didn’t hound anyone for donations. We didn’t bring it up. That was not the purpose. Some did send donations and we thank them for that. It helped to support the server costs. But with over 800 nodes online you would think more would support the network.

So above are some of the reasons I have made this decision. I have looked for years for someone I could give the network to if I got tired of it or if anything ever happened to me. I had a few good prospects but for one reason or another it didn’t work out. I did have people email and tell me they wanted to help out or how much they liked the network. We appreciate the kind words but it isn’t easy to teach or know what a person is capable of. And with thousands of members how do you find out?

On Monday the Registration Server, HUBs hosted by us, DNS Server, Email and the Website will be turned off. The VOIP Live Server and No Sad HAMs will stay online. There are other small groups out there that I’m sure a bunch will go to. Just be careful and check things out. And unless you have real deep pockets and can afford large fines and attorney fees be careful what you connect to.

Or get your HAM Ticket and find us on NoSadHAMs.com”

 

[Davichko5650]

Not gonna quote, but the point they made that GMRS is a radio hobby and most use it as such, I have to disagree with. I'm of the opinion that most GMRS users are not radio hobbyists but people who get the license to use the Service as it is; short range communications to assist users in their various pursuits. Yes, some are drawn to the Service as an adjunct to the other Services they're involved in, more power to 'em. Some as the so-called "Gateway drug" into the Ham world.  Myself, I got into GMRS as a good way to have short range comm's from Cabin to boat or car up where cells phones are nice looking paperweights. Use sporadically around the home as well, easier than yelling across the yard. Have a couple friends I talk to simplex and rarely use a repeater.

[WRUE951]

Randy had little to do with alerting the FCC about these outlaw linkers.   Myself and many i know sent letters to the FCC over a year ago, well before Randy came out with his factorial video on the subject..  In fact years before Randy's video, this forum was full of discussions on these outlaw linkers..  The fact of the mater remains, GMRS does not have the bandwidth available to permit Linking much less the proven expertise to manage and operate them.. As in the 'SADHAM' world, repeaters take a lot of coordinating and responsibility to run them, something lacking tremendous in the GMRS (Family Radio Service)...   I doubt seriously the FCC would ever consider allowing Linking in the this band simply because the lack of bandwidth.   But who know's,, perhaps if they get someone like George Soros involved, the linkers might find a way to legalize linking and fast track it through the FCC..   Hell,  isn't that worth a try?    

[marcspaz]

 

They're not outlaws... rule breakers at best, but no laws broken.

[WRXB215]

This part surprised me.

"You have many other groups that used it as a money making thing. Hell before Texas did what they did they told me they had thousands in the bank. These groups charge for everything. Membership fees, advertising and fees for using there repeaters are just a few."

Not sure what he is talking about. I joined TexasGMRS.net before any of this ever happened. I've never been charged a penny, but I have access to all the repeaters.

[WRHS218]

4 minutes ago, WRXB215 said:

I joined TexasGMRS.net before any of this ever happened. I've never been charged a penny, but I have access to all the repeaters.

Same here.

[Raybestos]

1 hour ago, SteveShannon said:

I agree that it came off as whining about @OffRoaderX.

It renders correctly on a tablet, but certainly isn’t legible on a phone.  Here are the last several paragraphs that you couldn’t read, with all rights belonging to GMRSlive.com:

”You have many other groups that used it as a money making thing. Hell before Texas did what they did they told me they had thousands in the bank. These groups charge for everything. Membership fees, advertising and fees for using there repeaters are just a few. GMRS Live had none of this. We didn’t allow advertising to make money off our users. I promoted one company that makes a good product but we were in no way part of them. They did send a node for me to try out.

For just over 4 years I accessed and maintained this network daily trying to keep it running smoothly. In the beginning we paid all the bills. We finally had to add a donation button. Be we didn’t hound anyone for donations. We didn’t bring it up. That was not the purpose. Some did send donations and we thank them for that. It helped to support the server costs. But with over 800 nodes online you would think more would support the network.

So above are some of the reasons I have made this decision. I have looked for years for someone I could give the network to if I got tired of it or if anything ever happened to me. I had a few good prospects but for one reason or another it didn’t work out. I did have people email and tell me they wanted to help out or how much they liked the network. We appreciate the kind words but it isn’t easy to teach or know what a person is capable of. And with thousands of members how do you find out?

On Monday the Registration Server, HUBs hosted by us, DNS Server, Email and the Website will be turned off. The VOIP Live Server and No Sad HAMs will stay online. There are other small groups out there that I’m sure a bunch will go to. Just be careful and check things out. And unless you have real deep pockets and can afford large fines and attorney fees be careful what you connect to.

Or get your HAM Ticket and find us on NoSadHAMs.com”

 

Thank You for reposting that, Steve!  Yes, on my Android, where it went to yellow print on a white background, I could not read it.   

[SteveShannon]

Just now, Raybestos said:

Thank You for reposting that, Steve!  Yes, on my Android, where it went to yellow print on a white background, I could not read it.   

Same on my iPhone, but my iPad did just fine.

[WRUU653]

1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

 

They're not outlaws... rule breakers at best, but no laws broken.

Scofflaws, ne’er do wells, ruffians… the linkers were a mad bunch snapping their nasty antenna whips, growling at old women and kicking rocks at children. Then law came to town, a man with a badge THE FCC!!! 
…sorry I was imagining a 60’s TV show that never was

carry on.

[wrci350]

2 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

I agree that it came off as whining about @OffRoaderX.

Yes, I found that amusing.  The description of the system that was shut down is also not accurate.  I have no idea how many members the club had (although I think it was more than 50) but I do have first-hand knowledge that it was more than two repeaters.  I think it could also be argued that a linked repeater system that covered NY State from 20 or 30 miles east of Syracuse westward could be considered "large", at least from a geography standpoint.  No, it was not a huge multi-state system with dozens of repeaters, but UHF coverage of that much territory was pretty impressive.

[Davichko5650]

45 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

. Then law came to town, a man with a badge
…sorry I was imagining a 60’s TV show that never was

carry on.

Dunno who that handsome stranger was, but he had a mighty fine lookin' veehickle!

[WRUE951]

4 hours ago, marcspaz said:

 

They're not outlaws... rule breakers at best, but no laws broken.

What the hell,, i thought you blocked me..   So much for that,,  now i gotta put up with you...  They're outlaws and not very smart ones..