Base Antenna Considerations

[WRZR953]

Trying to decide my best option for a base antenna mount. Ive purchased a jpole to be mounted. Use location will be a room at the rear of my home. Electric panel and grounding are all the way at the front right of the home. This would be a logical place to ground any mast mounted up from the roof line but would also require a very long run of coax through the attic to the rear of house and then down. If I add a mast to roof at the rear of the home, it seems there are limited grounding options. There is a concrete walk way to traverse for any grounding rod solution, and only a water spicket coming out of the side of the house. I have no idea the routing of this pipe and where it may or may not contact the ground. This is leading me torwards a telescoping fiberglass pole at the rear of the home , perhaps attached to a concrete filled bucket with a post or some other means of attaching the fiberglass mast to that could be removed when things get stormy.  An easy mount location would be at the highest peak on the roof line on a short pole where coax could easily enter the attic. Again, this would require a long coax run and a long way to reach a grounding location.

[SteveShannon]

9 minutes ago, WRZR953 said:

Trying to decide my best option for a base antenna mount. Ive purchased a jpole to be mounted. Use location will be a room at the rear of my home. Electric panel and grounding are all the way at the front right of the home. This would be a logical place to ground any mast mounted up from the roof line but would also require a very long run of coax through the attic to the rear of house and then down. If I add a mast to roof at the rear of the home, it seems there are limited grounding options. There is a concrete walk way to traverse for any grounding rod solution, and only a water spicket coming out of the side of the house. I have no idea the routing of this pipe and where it may or may not contact the ground. This is leading me torwards a telescoping fiberglass pole at the rear of the home , perhaps attached to a concrete filled bucket with a post or some other means of attaching the fiberglass mast to that could be removed when things get stormy.  An easy mount location would be at the highest peak on the roof line on a short pole where coax could easily enter the attic. Again, this would require a long coax run and a long way to reach a grounding location.

Don’t make a long coax run to your electrical box. Your antenna isn’t grounded to the electrical panel. Instead it is grounded to your grounding electrode outside. If anything run a bonding conductor outside the house from where your coax enters the house to your intersystem bonding terminal block. See this article:

https://reeve.com/Documents/Articles Papers/Reeve_AntennaSystemGroundingRequirements.pdf

[WRZR953]

35 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Don’t make a long coax run to your electrical box. Your antenna isn’t grounded to the electrical panel. Instead it is grounded to your grounding electrode outside. If anything run a bonding conductor outside the house from where your coax enters the house to your intersystem bonding terminal block. See this article:

https://reeve.com/Documents/Articles Papers/Reeve_AntennaSystemGroundingRequirements.pdf

I didnt mean to give you the impression that I would be grounding the antenna to the electrical box directly. The Earth ground is at this location where all the utilities enter. There is also a large ground to piping here that clearly goes underground that is easily accesible.

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, Socalgmrs said:

A ground rod for the antena should not be that same as the house ground rod.   

Good grief. That’s 100% wrong. Although it’s possible to have additional ground electrodes they are all required to be bonded together. It they are not there’s a possibility that you can have current flowing along the shield of your coax. 

[WRYZ926]

6 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

A ground rod for the antena should not be that same as the house ground rod.   
so I’d mount your antenna where you want it and find a place to drive a new ground rod as close as possible to your antenna.  
 

 

I highly suggest you read the PDF that @SteveShannon posted a link to.

@WRZR953 I have a ground rod right below where my coax cables enter the house and another ground rod at the base of my antenna mast. Both are tied into/bonded to my service ground which is in the middle of both locations. Follow the actual NEC codes for proper station grounding.

[WSAA254]

On 10/26/2024 at 2:34 PM, SteveShannon said:

Good grief. That’s 100% wrong. Although it’s possible to have additional ground electrodes they are all required to be bonded together. It they are not there’s a possibility that you can have current flowing along the shield of your coax. 

In IC physical design we refer to this as a "star routing".  The currents involved in the IC world are on the micro scale, but ANY difference in a GND potential can results in voltage drops, the last thing you want are to different GND potentials.   This whole antenna grounding/station grounding as been hashed over quite abit, so go with acceptable standards as outlined in established Antenna ground standards and you will be fine. With a issue thats been around for so long, don't try and re-invent the wheel.  All info is good info, regards

Its important that all grounds be at the same potentials.  So they need to be robustly tied.  Last thing you want is a possible voltage potential between two grounds.  If you curious search for "star routing" to see examples.  Star routing may be more applicable to the IC design world, but the fundamentals are the same.  A few ohms difference in gnd routes, may work for very small currents, but hi current spikes may lead to voltage potentials on what you think may be a ground.  Unless of course your intent is to make a ground loop, then all bets are off.

Edited yesterday at 06:56 PM by WSAA254
additional info

[WRUE951]

On 10/26/2024 at 1:24 PM, Socalgmrs said:

A ground rod for the antena should not be that same as the house ground rod.   
so I’d mount your antenna where you want it and find a place to drive a new ground rod as close as possible to your antenna.  
 

 

I've got mine tied into the common ground of my house panel.. And that's the way it should be if your radio equipment power source shares the same ground source..    

[WRUE951]

Don't go with a Hustler..  They are not Bird proof..   Although they are a damn good performer.  Mine (before the bird attack) got 1:1-1:2 across the GMRS band and talked 80 Miles.. Model is  GS-450-3..    I'm gonna try to repair it and repurpose..   Got a Laird FG460-470 ordered to replace it...  Lots and lots of good reports on that Antenna.  Best place to order is from Mouser Electronics..  If you order one, expect it to be backordered.   They cant keep them in stock.  

[WRUE951]

On 10/26/2024 at 1:24 PM, Socalgmrs said:

A ground rod for the antena should not be that same as the house ground rod.   
so I’d mount your antenna where you want it and find a place to drive a new ground rod as close as possible to your antenna.  
 

 

think about that,, your radio plugged into your house AC circuit is getting tied into the Common ground.  Driving a separate ground rod and placing antenna ground to that is creating another source for your house ground..  Not good. But if you bond all the grounds together, then go ahead drive all the ground rods you want,,  But it really wont benefit anything other than the wallets at HomeDepot  

 

Tie Antenna Ground to House

Consensus: Yes, antenna ground should be tied to the same house ground.

Reasoning: Multiple sources emphasize the importance of bonding the antenna ground to the same ground rod as the electrical meter. This ensures a common ground potential for both the antenna system and the house electrical system, reducing the risk of interference and damage during lightning strikes.

• According to one source, grounding the antenna separately from the house ground can cause “huge differences in potential” between grounds, leading to equipment damage or destruction during a lightning strike.
• Another source stresses the need for a common ground, citing the National Electrical Code (NEC) guidelines for grounding and bonding.
• A Quora answer confirms that grounding an antenna is necessary, and it should be connected to the same ground as the electrical system.

Practical Considerations: When grounding an antenna, it’s essential to bond it to the same ground rod as the electrical meter, rather than the breaker panel. This ensures a safe and effective path for electrical impulses during a lightning strike.

In Summary: To ensure the safe and reliable operation of your antenna system, it is recommended to tie the antenna ground to the same house ground, specifically the same ground rod as the electrical meter. This bonding process reduces the risk of interference and damage during lightning strikes, and adheres to established electrical codes and guidelines.

[AdmiralCochrane]

The antenna should have its own ground rod to avoid the length to the house ground rod.  You want any problem with the antenna to get to the earth as soon as possible and not travel around Robin Hood's Barn to get there.

[WRUE951]

On 10/26/2024 at 1:24 PM, Socalgmrs said:

A ground rod for the antena should not be that same as the house ground rod.   
so I’d mount your antenna where you want it and find a place to drive a new ground rod as close as possible to your antenna.  
 

 

Read the NEC  

[Socalgmrs]

A ground rod for the antena should not be that same as the house ground rod.   
so I’d mount your antenna where you want it and find a place to drive a new ground rod as close as possible to your antenna.