The "For Family Emergency Communications" GMRS repeater access requests.

[DONE]

As a repeater owner I am noticing a trend that is concerning.  I get a good number of repeater access requests that are marked for 'family emergency communications' in the request.  I get A LOT of these.  Now many of these folks never key the repeater past once or twice to see if they can hit it and verify they are in the coverage area.  Then they are never heard from again. 

But if I have 100 individual license holders that are all considering my repeater as their primary means of communications in a disaster, there's going to be a serious problem.  If all those are individual licenses, and not going to communicate with each other, then that's 200 users on one repeater all expecting to able to communicate within their licensed group individually.  Meaning the possibility of 100 different conversations that might want to happen at more or less the same time.  That's not going to work. 

The repeater is gonna be on the air for at least a week or two after a failure of the power grid.  The generator will run for several days and then the batteries will take over for several more.  Not saying that the tower can't fall, but it's not the standard guyed tower that many repeaters are on.  It's 50 feet wide at the base with 4 legs and is very sturdy.  To the  point that the ones that were extended in height had broadcast quality tower sections that were 4 foot faced mounted on TOP of the existing towers to extend them and part of those installs are 60 foot free standing (not guyed) towers mounted to the top of the tower type I have the repeater on.  So yes, a direct hit from a tornado may bring the tower down.  But a better possibility is the antenna's being ripped from the structure.  Outside that, it will be on the air.  But it's still ONE repeater, with the possibility of a HUGE number of people wanting to use it at the same time all trying to get in there and use it at once.

Now I realize that GMRS requires ZERO understanding of radio to get a license.  The service is marketed and meant to fill the need for people that just want radios for whatever communications they require without any additional knowledge or understanding of the underlying technology.  Appliance Operators would be a correct description.  And that's fine.  It's here for that very reason and is the expectation. But if there are a large number of people expecting to all use the same repeater, that never talk on it, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when the SHTF whatever occurs and you yank the radios out of the closet and fire them up and find the repeater you planned to use busy with other traffic.

 

[SteveShannon]

9 minutes ago, WRKC935 said:

As a repeater owner I am noticing a trend that is concerning.  I get a good number of repeater access requests that are marked for 'family emergency communications' in the request.  I get A LOT of these.  Now many of these folks never key the repeater past once or twice to see if they can hit it and verify they are in the coverage area.  Then they are never heard from again. 

But if I have 100 individual license holders that are all considering my repeater as their primary means of communications in a disaster, there's going to be a serious problem.  If all those are individual licenses, and not going to communicate with each other, then that's 200 users on one repeater all expecting to able to communicate within their licensed group individually.  Meaning the possibility of 100 different conversations that might want to happen at more or less the same time.  That's not going to work. 

The repeater is gonna be on the air for at least a week or two after a failure of the power grid.  The generator will run for several days and then the batteries will take over for several more.  Not saying that the tower can't fall, but it's not the standard guyed tower that many repeaters are on.  It's 50 feet wide at the base with 4 legs and is very sturdy.  To the  point that the ones that were extended in height had broadcast quality tower sections that were 4 foot faced mounted on TOP of the existing towers to extend them and part of those installs are 60 foot free standing (not guyed) towers mounted to the top of the tower type I have the repeater on.  So yes, a direct hit from a tornado may bring the tower down.  But a better possibility is the antenna's being ripped from the structure.  Outside that, it will be on the air.  But it's still ONE repeater, with the possibility of a HUGE number of people wanting to use it at the same time all trying to get in there and use it at once.

Now I realize that GMRS requires ZERO understanding of radio to get a license.  The service is marketed and meant to fill the need for people that just want radios for whatever communications they require without any additional knowledge or understanding of the underlying technology.  Appliance Operators would be a correct description.  And that's fine.  It's here for that very reason and is the expectation. But if there are a large number of people expecting to all use the same repeater, that never talk on it, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when the SHTF whatever occurs and you yank the radios out of the closet and fire them up and find the repeater you planned to use busy with other traffic.

 

100% correct.  How do you break that to them when you approve their access requests?

[Guest]

Yes unfortunately people in general do zero research before getting into gmrs.  They believe the hyped adds that they will be able to communicate with family from other states, that pl tones are private, that you just buy a hand held and you can talk like a cell phone.   We all see it every day on this site, people not understanding they can’t hit a local repeater from 10,20.30 miles away with a uv5r and a stock antenna in the city. They say they wasted the $35 fcc fee 
 

this is why experienced guys need to talk with new guys one on one and explain gmrs and radios in general.   This is why a good home base station set up is so important.   

[LeoG]

I wouldn't worry about it one bit.  You are providing a limited service.  It's not any of your fault about their misunderstanding of the way a repeater works.  It's very likely out of the 100 that are signed up only 15 of them will be using the repeater during an emergency.

And they'll also learn that you need to take turns and be patient for the use of a limited service.

Sounds like you would like them to use it on a regular basis instead of just for emergencies.  I think some will come around to that.

[WSEZ]

I'm guilty of this myself, I purchased 2, uv-82hp myself many years ago for emergency communication just in case shtf. Well shtf in western nc and because I have never used the radios or developed a network they were useless.

Never again will I, nor my family be in this situation.

I will be an active member of the gmrs community and do what I can to promote and build our gmrs community.

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, WSEZ said:

Well shtf in western nc and because I have never used the radios or developed a network they were useless.

This is wisdom earned the hard way. 

[marcspaz]

Something else the users of our repeaters need to understand is, if we as owners  need the repeater for our own emergency use or to augment an emergency response somehow, we're going to change the tones and access methods, stopping most other traffic.

 

Not that we would want to put families in a tough spot. If my repeaters aren't needed for an emergency response, I'll leave it on as long as I can. That said, service to the whole community has to take priority over basic traffic. 

[GMRSJohn]

If this is the case, is it better to have your own repeater(s) so you don’t have to bother with someone else’s? 

[marcspaz]

Just now, GMRSJohn said:

If this is the case, is it better to have your own repeater(s) so you don’t have to bother with someone else’s? 

 

In my opinion,  the answer is yes and no. If you need to communicate between your home and mobile or other location, you just need a good radio setup to support simplex communications. No repeater needed. The best reason to need a repeater is if you know everyone will be or plan to potentially be somewhere that simplex isn't going to be possible due to line of site limitations. The problem is, that usually means you need a massive antenna system at your house or at some rented space some where. Towers and commercial repeaters are typically cost prohibitive, and tower installation restrictions at any given location also restricts repeater installs.

[808Beachbum]

7 minutes ago, GMRSJohn said:

If this is the case, is it better to have your own repeater(s) so you don’t have to bother with someone else’s? 

Doesn't much matter...there's only 8 repeater channels for everyone, and in addition, they are outputting to FRS channels. It is a very limited service, and if you do not participate with a local group, or practice basic emcomms long before SHTF, you are not likely to get much value (from repeater channels) during SHTF. On simplex, if you have done your homework, you should be able to stay in contact with your (properly equipped) inner circle.

[BoxCar]

1 hour ago, WSEZ said:

I'm guilty of this myself, I purchased 2, uv-82hp myself many years ago for emergency communication just in case shtf. Well shtf in western nc and because I have never used the radios or developed a network they were useless.

Never again will I, nor my family be in this situation.

I will be an active member of the gmrs community and do what I can to promote and build our gmrs community.

 

1 hour ago, SteveShannon said:

This is wisdom earned the hard way. 

This is the primary reason I went from GMRS to amateur. At the time I received my Tech license (2021) there were no GMRS repeaters operational in my area of south Asheville and the only traffic was on FRS from a couple senior residences and a local fast food place. My experience with amateur prepared me for the loss of power and having my Go-Box radio up and running on fully charged batteries. We lasted 3 days before traveling out of state due to no water and a route being open allowing us to go north. During the 3 days we were here, our club repeater was running on emergency power and traffic was being passed both in and out of the area. With no AM radio, we had no news except for what was passed over our net. So, when the fecal matter hit the revolving impeller, my wife and I were both prepared and able to contribute.

[LeoG]

1 hour ago, WSEZ said:

I'm guilty of this myself, I purchased 2, uv-82hp myself many years ago for emergency communication just in case shtf. Well shtf in western nc and because I have never used the radios or developed a network they were useless.

Never again will I, nor my family be in this situation.

I will be an active member of the gmrs community and do what I can to promote and build our gmrs community.

This is my family.  The wife and I are active.  She somewhat clueless on programming but knows the ins and outs of getting in contact with others.  My youngest son seems to have a clue as we were using them today when we were using separate vehicles getting supplies for a brick patio.  Finding each other in the store, relaying information when I was getting the truck to the forklift for loading.  Even getting a breakfast sandwich.  Got it with a poppy seed roll.

My sister and my brother might know the concept but lack of experience.  Not a good plan.

[WSEZ]

I agree with everyone, especially expecting e-comms to be there without investing time, personal relationships,   experience, and money into it.

We have a private business repeater relaying network covering Eastern Tennessee, Western North Carolina, Northern Georgia and the NorthWest side of South Carolina. When everything went to sh1t it was useless. Private networks are invaluable!

[WRYZ926]

I have noticed the same thing with the recent requests I have received. And people will be disappointed during an actual emergency.  Our organization's main focus is to support local agencies so that is where our priorities will be. Plus we still need to move our GMRS repeater from its temporary spot to its permanent home in a rack along side our 2m and 70cm repeaters so that it too will be on battery backup. Our GMRS repeater is not currently on any type of backup power.

I guess that more people are buying radios from Amazon lately due to what happened in the Southeast and not bothering with getting licensed. We have had a lot more kerchunking on all three of our repeaters in the last few weeks. It's a bit aggravating t say the least. And it isn't as easy to change PL tones on the 2m and 70cm repeaters since that has to go through the local repeater counsel.

What was worse was today. We had to do some final tweaks on our new (to us) 2m Quantar repeater along with trying to get Allstar backup and running. And we has a ID10T or two that kept wanting to kerchunk the repeater all day. Even had a kid get on and say "breaker breaker 19" on the repeater. I guess it's time to build some hand held yagi antennas and go hunting.

[DONE]

My plans are different than many, but it's what's available to me directly so it's the path I will take.

If it gets to the point that the commie's are invading, or whatever, I will be operating P25 with AES encryption.  I have plenty of equipment for doing that on VHF and UHF and 900Mhz and the repeaters are programmed for mixed mode, so if they hear P25 modulation with the correct NAC, they switch modes, and power levels going from 50 or less watts to 110 watts.  So my PERSONAL communications will be covered.

Past that, if the repeaters get really busy, I will begin bringing other pairs on line and doing announcements to more people off to the additional repeaters.  Johnstown600 is still in the rack with the breaker pulled.  That one goes back up first.  It was my linked repeater that I took down since I didn't have the loading I felt mandated the pairs being tied up for.  But at that point, I will also be taking donations of diesel fuel to keep the generator running. 

I have considered requesting the donation of fuel right now to fill the storage tank (275 gallon) but we keep the belly tank (100 gallon) at 1/2 to 3/4 at all times.  The one thing about a diesel genset is the ease of getting fuel to it.  The fact it's older means it can run on a number of different fuels from heating oil to some jet fuels.  And since the current diesel is basically kerosene, it's typically available too.  I have larger propane / natural gas units, but getting fuel to them would be a bit more difficult. 

 

[gortex2]

Thisi s part of the reason none of my repeaters are listed. I ran into this in the north. Then we had a huge storm and the next week I got 100 emails of people complaining of coverage or no one answered them. I told many up front I do not answer and thats not why the repeaters were on the air. I finally removed them from listings and changed frequencies and DCS tones. Oncei n a while I'll get some one on one of them asking for radio checks. Normally I ignore and they go away. There is also a false understanding that repeaters are just therel ike cell sites and people must monitor the channels. Not how it works. Many here realize repeaters are done by volunttersd and not government but many dont realize that. 

[WSED965]

Appreciate this thread as my friends and family are talking about this - managing expectations - how if cell goes down after a disaster it might be days before GMRS repeaters get us in touch. Coming up with a plan for times of day to try, and which frequencies - since we are lucky to have a few repeaters in reach. Just starting out and testing things, so appreciate all feedback, but mostly just chiming in to say a big thank you to all repeater owners.

[Crosswire3]

This is a prime example of why I like to suggest people have a solid base radio/antenna and explore HF privileges. There are a few hundred people on my repeater for “emergency communication with family” who have nothing but an HT and no practice with it. I can’t wait for the first big storm or power outage…it’s going to be interesting. 

[marcspaz]

46 minutes ago, WSED965 said:

Appreciate this thread as my friends and family are talking about this - managing expectations - how if cell goes down after a disaster it might be days before GMRS repeaters get us in touch. Coming up with a plan for times of day to try, and which frequencies - since we are lucky to have a few repeaters in reach. Just starting out and testing things, so appreciate all feedback, but mostly just chiming in to say a big thank you to all repeater owners.

 

 

Your best bet for real emergency communications for the least amount of money is satellite communications. Things like the Garmin InReach are the best bang for the buck. Mostly because of cost and ease of use.

 

HF radio on 3.8 MHz to 7.2 MHz would be the next best thing. It would be my first choice if you want voice communication. You can cover from 0 miles to 10,000 miles, radio to radio, with 100w and a simple wire antenna. No need for repeaters or other infrastructure. However, there is a very small learning curve and portable systems are a shade more bulky than SatComm stuff.

[KramerDMZ]

Thanks for bringing up this topic.  I'm new to GMRS but grew up with radio and the importance of being a part of that community.  I see the value in having it for emergency use based on personal experience when I was younger.  If we have to leave the house, we may wind up taking multiple vehicles.  Radio is a good way to keep in contact while on the road.  If needed (and only if needed) a repeater may come in handy if we get split up.

As for traffic on the air during a real emergency, yep, that could be a real situation.  Comments above about being part of community are valid and important.  Thanks to all of you who volunteer your time and efforts to allow others to use your repeaters.

[WRHS218]

Something everyone should consider: If the SHTF on a large scale, state wide or nation wide instance, NO ONE IS COMING. Expect to self rescue. 

[DONE]

3 hours ago, WRHS218 said:

Something everyone should consider: If the SHTF on a large scale, state wide or nation wide instance, NO ONE IS COMING. Expect to self rescue. 

Yes, that's true.  No one should expect white glove rescue service from the government entities. 

Now this isn't a prepper site.  I am not going to go into physical security, food storage, bug out planning or any of that.  But we do discuss communications and radio here.  So that piece of a bigger plan is appropriate for this site.

And the hammie thought process isn't one that needs adopted here either.  Here's the issue with calling for help.  You have to give your location to direct the assistance to you.  Now if you are unprepared, and in a life or death situation, you really don't have a choice.  Outside of that, discussion of locations, travel plans, specific meeting locations and the like are NEVER to be discussed over the air.  If you wouldn't tell your neighbor, or fellow radio operator friend that you have 10 grand in your safe (if you did) because of trust issues, then you don't give out that sort of information over the air for ANYONE else to hear. 

All this is referred to as operational security.  The OPSEC term you see from time to time.  And if you are going to communicate with others in a situation where the government isn't there to help,you need to have previously established a communications plan for all involved parties and stick to that plan.

First part of the plan is scheduling.  And contrary to what might seem reasonable of same time every day, that's NOT the way to go about it.  Your communications need to switch times in a seemingly random way.  This can be based on the day of the week, but shouldn't repeat for at least a month.  Meaning if Monday comms are at 10 and 6 then the next day needs to be 8 and 7.  The following day should be 10:30 and 5, and you can continue to repeat a pattern that while you and the other parties know what it is, someone monitoring will not easily see what's happening.  And then can't track your signal by waiting for the specific time you are going to be talking.  Changing frequencies, is also a possibility depending on what you have at hand for communications.  And remember, this is a SHTF situation, so the rules are sort of malleable.   But keep in mind a couple things.  First is only using as much power as needed to communicate with the other party.  Less signal is less distance, meaning that fewer people with ill intent can hear you.  Names, landmarks and such need to not be directly named.  Other 'coded' references to those things need to be established prior to a situation that requires OPSEC and then used for the duration of the situation. 

There is a LOT to all of this and I am not going to go that deep into it but this should be enough to start getting a plan for communications established and built on from there.