Antenna Gain

[WSFA388]

I recently purchased a Wouxun KG-S65G as an entry into GMRS.  I asked the "chat" for a recommendation for an upgrade on the antenna, and the Melowave Bandit G was recommended.  I recently came across a video that noted there is a difference between high and low gain antennas, with if I recall correctly, low gain being better if you live in an obstructed area, which I think I do.

The specs to the antenna are below.  Is 2.15 dBi gain low or high?  Is this antenna appropriate for a handheld in an obstructed area?

Thanks!

The Authentic Melowave Bandit-G is a GMRS antenna tuned for 462MHz frequencies on the GMRS. The Bandit-G works with portable handheld GMRS two way way radios. It is available in your choice of an SMA Male, SMA Female or BNC antenna connector.
 

Genuine Melowave antenna

• 462-468 MHz
• Impedence 50 ohms
• 2.15 dBi gain
• V.S.W.R. ≦1.5:1
• Wave: 1/2 λ
• Maximum power rating: 10 Watts
• Linear vertical polarization
• Height (approx.): 15.3 inches / 39.3 cm)
• Base Diameter (SMA Male): 0.43 inches / 11.1 mm)
• Base Diameter (SMA Female): 0.55 inches / 14.2 mm)
• Base Diameter (BNC Male): 0.56 inches / 14.4 mm)
• Operating temperature range: -22°F~185°F / -30°C~+85°C
• Very thin and flexible
• Available in your choice of SMA Male, SMA Female or BNC connector
• Model: Bandit-G
• Works with portable handheld GMRS two way radios equipped with a removable antenna.

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, WSFA388 said:

I recently purchased a Wouxun KG-S65G as an entry into GMRS.  I asked the "chat" for a recommendation for an upgrade on the antenna, and the Melowave Bandit G was recommended.  I recently came across a video that noted there is a difference between high and low gain antennas, with if I recall correctly, low gain being better if you live in an obstructed area, which I think I do.

The specs to the antenna are below.  Is 2.15 dBi gain low or high?  Is this antenna appropriate for a handheld in an obstructed area?

Thanks!

The Authentic Melowave Bandit-G is a GMRS antenna tuned for 462MHz frequencies on the GMRS. The Bandit-G works with portable handheld GMRS two way way radios. It is available in your choice of an SMA Male, SMA Female or BNC antenna connector.
 

Genuine Melowave antenna

• 462-468 MHz
• Impedence 50 ohms
• 2.15 dBi gain
• V.S.W.R. ≦1.5:1
• Wave: 1/2 λ
• Maximum power rating: 10 Watts
• Linear vertical polarization
• Height (approx.): 15.3 inches / 39.3 cm)
• Base Diameter (SMA Male): 0.43 inches / 11.1 mm)
• Base Diameter (SMA Female): 0.55 inches / 14.2 mm)
• Base Diameter (BNC Male): 0.56 inches / 14.4 mm)
• Operating temperature range: -22°F~185°F / -30°C~+85°C
• Very thin and flexible
• Available in your choice of SMA Male, SMA Female or BNC connector
• Model: Bandit-G
• Works with portable handheld GMRS two way radios equipped with a removable antenna.

2.15 dbi is exactly the same gain as a half-wave dipole. Yes, it’s low gain. 

What makes you think that you need to upgrade the antenna that your radio came with?

[kidphc]

Think of the radiation of an antenna 0 dbi gain as a ball. Bear with me simplifying as much as I can.

As you squish the ball it get flatter and The sides bulge. Having more of the radiation pattern focused to the horizon. This is what a higher gain antenna is accomplishing. Without going into directional antennas.

So the more gain an antenna has the flatter the radiating disc gets. But it starts losing coverage vertically.

Yes/no higher gain antennas can help with obstructions.

For instance, vehicular offroading with a group where there are elevation changes I will get better coverage for the radios above and below me with a lower gain antenna such as a 1/4.

Where if I were to drive in a flat wooded area. I would want a higher gain antenna in the hopes of punching through the leaves and trees.

When it comes to hts. I haven't noticed a night and day difference between 0 and higher gain antennas. The ht often is only around 4'8" to 6' off the ground. Often maybe a slightly better radio report from otherside of the repeater with a higher gain antenna. What i do notice is the eye poking risk, physical interference and the constant jabbing of the higher gain (often much longer) antenna.

Truthfully ht antennas are relatively cheap. Try different one (borrow if you can) to see what works and you can live with.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[WSFA388]

I thought since I am in an obstructed area this would help.  I have a UV5R for a scanner, and I largely only receive from one direction.  I am hoping the antenna upgrade will help. 

[kidphc]

What are the obstructions?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[WSFA388]

I live in a hilly section of a suburb, with houses and trees.  To my east is the top of a hill that is against a plain.  To my west directly behind my house is a small rise.  To my west is hills.  I can receive from the east and the south but I am not hearing anything from the west or north and a only a little from the south. 

Edited 20 hours ago by WSFA388
add

[Socalgmrs]

Pretty much all ht antennas are low gain.   You would need to get into 6,9 or 12db gain to have high gain.  
 

I run 771 antennas on every ht I have. Very similar to the  bandit.    We play and work with our radios and they need to work as best as possible.  The gain flattens the signal and raises the radiated watts of output power.  Roughly and simplified, about 2x for every 3db of gain.  So higher gain would usually help in woods, heavy brush ect.   

[OffRoaderX]

13 minutes ago, Socalgmrs said:

I run 771 antennas on every ht I have

Everyone I know that has had that antenna has thrown theirs straight into the trash.

[WRKW566]

23 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

Everyone I know that has had that antenna has thrown theirs straight into the trash.

I am sour on the "771" antenna. The "factory provided" Nagoya 771 antennas I got directly from Baofeng are fakes... so says the Nagoya website.
Not dropping $30 a pop (shipping included) for replacements. The factory "Nagoya 771" antennas from Baofeng don't work as well as the "gimmie" antenna the radio comes with.

Sure, I could buy one directly from Nayoga but why put good money after bad. I will look for other options. Not Nagoya's fault but at the very least they could defend their brand by telling Baofeng not to sell the fakes. I guess they don't have the profit margins to hire layers to do that stuff.

(not interested in a "bidding war" here, you guys don't have to tell me all the places where I can get these antennas for less money. Don't waste your time.)

[OffRoaderX]

5 minutes ago, WRKW566 said:

I am sour on the "771" antenna.

My comment was a bit of an "inside comment".. iYKYK ....

[WRKW566]

9 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

My comment was a bit of an "inside comment".. iYKYK ....

My comment was born of frustration, not directed at you are anyone else. The subject of these antennae popped up and triggered my ire.

It would be great if I could find a way to rebuild these, I have more time than the new antenna would be worth of money. For now, they make great fidget sticks.

 

Edit, here. Take a look at my "factory" Nagoya antenna. nothing but a connector and a length of spring wire. the overall length from the tip to the female pin in the connector is 38cm. No loading, nothing. Just looks like an antenna.

 

[OffRoaderX]

31 minutes ago, WRKW566 said:

My comment was born of frustration

FWIW, I have a buddy that bought one that was a dud (probably fake) - measured 99.9SWR/dead short.. they sent him a new one, no questions asked.. it was also a dead-short dud...

But I've had a few that worked just fine.

[kidphc]

I live in a hilly section of a suburb, with houses and trees.  To my east is the top of a hill that is against a plain.  To my west directly behind my house is a small rise.  To my west is hills.  I can receive from the east and the south but I am not hearing anything from the west or north and a only a little from the south. 

Had a buddy with topo like that. Mind you where we live around D.C. it's Rolly Polly Piedmont till you head towards D.C. which kinda sits in a bowl.

He kept complaining about dropping his mast 10' got him to a certain repeater. Raising it or lowering it more he lost coverage. He would often hit 20 miles straight line due north east. But couldn't make a repeater well that was less 10 miles. It drove him mad.

Turns out his house sits on a kinda hill. But his house is surrounded by a hill ridge except in one direction. You got it there was a nice direct line North East that was clear. Every other directions using line of sight calculators he needed a 50' tower.

What you should take a way is that you should look at a topo map or uhf line of sight calculator. I don't think much is to gain by switching a HT antenna.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[WRKW566]

1 hour ago, OffRoaderX said:

FWIW, I have a buddy that bought one that was a dud (probably fake) - measured 99.9SWR/dead short.. they sent him a new one, no questions asked.. it was also a dead-short dud...

But I've had a few that worked just fine.

These show to be dual band, 144/430MHz but the "math" for these is centered around 393.5MHz 1/2 wave. This thing can't function at any of the labeled frequencies.

https://www.onesdr.com/whip-antenna-calculator/

[tcp2525]

2 hours ago, WRKW566 said:

My comment was born of frustration, not directed at you are anyone else. The subject of these antennae popped up and triggered my ire.

It would be great if I could find a way to rebuild these, I have more time than the new antenna would be worth of money. For now, they make great fidget sticks.

 

Edit, here. Take a look at my "factory" Nagoya antenna. nothing but a connector and a length of spring wire. the overall length from the tip to the female pin in the connector is 38cm. No loading, nothing. Just looks like an antenna.

 

I'm not sure why people feel they are going to get "gain" from a rubber duck. You are going to get nothing but a rugged flexible compromise, nothing more. These type of antennas are designed to radiate just enough to get you to a reliable repeater. The repeater does all the work. Sometimes you get a performer and sometimes not. Anyone that tells you that you're getting "gain" from a rubber duck doesn't understand the purpose of why they put flexible antennas on portables.

[WRKW566]

4 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

I'm not sure why people feel they are going to get "gain" from a rubber duck. You are going to get nothing but a rugged flexible compromise, nothing more. These type of antennas are designed to radiate just enough to get you to a reliable repeater. The repeater does all the work. Sometimes you get a performer and sometimes not. Anyone that tells you that you're getting "gain" from a rubber duck doesn't understand the purpose of why they put flexible antennas on portables.

I can't get to the local repeaters without changing location. Not interested in an antenna outside the house. I really don't care if the antenna has any gain, I just expected more than I actually got. Sure, a little gain from a larger antenna would have been nice, but these stick-things I have are actually harmful to the radio at best, much less provide any gain. I let my expectations get out of control and mouse-clicked myself into a bunch of junk. I just go on about this partly to make myself feel better and partly to keep someone else from setting expectations and ending up with useless radio junk. I agree with you, rubber duck antennas are more about not braking off the antenna when you mishandle your radio than they are about performance.

[tcp2525]

2 minutes ago, WRKW566 said:

I can't get to the local repeaters without changing location. Not interested in an antenna outside the house. I really don't care if the antenna has any gain, I just expected more than I actually got. Sure, a little gain from a larger antenna would have been nice, but these stick-things I have are actually harmful to the radio at best, much less provide any gain. I let my expectations get out of control and mouse-clicked myself into a bunch of junk. I just go on about this partly to make myself feel better and partly to keep someone else from setting expectations and ending up with useless radio junk. I agree with you, rubber duck antennas are more about not braking off the antenna when you mishandle your radio than they are about performance.

Understand. Don't beat yourself up as we all went down this rabbit hole at least once. Too much marketing hype and other forms of misinformation one expects to find on the internet.

[BoxCar]

20 minutes ago, WRKW566 said:

I can't get to the local repeaters without changing location. Not interested in an antenna outside the house. I really don't care if the antenna has any gain, I just expected more than I actually got. Sure, a little gain from a larger antenna would have been nice...

Probably the best solution for this would be a decent mobile antenna on a mag mount sitting attached to a steel baking sheet. If you wanted to stay with the antenna attached to the HH, I use ones from Signal Stick.

[WRXB215]

My 771s are Abbree. So far so good.

[WRYZ926]

The Abbree 771 is a decent antenna. But in my personal experience it depends on what radio I am using on if the antenna makes a difference or not. I did notice a small improvement when using it on my Baofeng radios. But the stock antennas did better on my Icom, TYT and Wouxun radios.

[LeoG]

Surprised.  Went to the Nagoya website and the NA-771G antenna isn't listed.  They have the 771, 771A and 771-477 for CB

 

Same thing with the 701, no "G" version

[WRUU653]

7 hours ago, WRKW566 said:

My comment was born of frustration, not directed at you are anyone else. The subject of these antennae popped up and triggered my ire.

It would be great if I could find a way to rebuild these, I have more time than the new antenna would be worth of money. For now, they make great fidget sticks.

 

Edit, here. Take a look at my "factory" Nagoya antenna. nothing but a connector and a length of spring wire. the overall length from the tip to the female pin in the connector is 38cm. No loading, nothing. Just looks like an antenna.

 

This appears to be a fake. I went searching because yours looked nothing like mine. 

 

[SteveShannon]

12 hours ago, WRKW566 said:

My comment was born of frustration, not directed at you are anyone else. The subject of these antennae popped up and triggered my ire.

It would be great if I could find a way to rebuild these, I have more time than the new antenna would be worth of money. For now, they make great fidget sticks.

 

Edit, here. Take a look at my "factory" Nagoya antenna. nothing but a connector and a length of spring wire. the overall length from the tip to the female pin in the connector is 38cm. No loading, nothing. Just looks like an antenna.

 

Mine was a TidRadio 771, but it has a coil and a capacitor from partway up on the coil to the shield. Here’s my picture.  Notice how thin the coil wire is?  I bet yours has a coil under a layer of insulation and it’s just not visible.

[LeoG]

My plastic part won't come off.  Not that I tried super hard because I don't want to ruin the antenna.

[SteveShannon]

24 minutes ago, LeoG said:

My plastic part won't come off.  Not that I tried super hard because I don't want to ruin the antenna.

Mine didn’t until the radio it was on fell and landed on the antenna and the white core the wire is coiled around broke. It gave its life so we could study it.

[WSAA254]

17 hours ago, kidphc said:

Think of the radiation of an antenna 0 dbi gain as a ball. Bear with me simplifying as much as I can.

As you squish the ball it get flatter and The sides bulge. Having more of the radiation pattern focused to the horizon. This is what a higher gain antenna is accomplishing. Without going into directional antennas.

So the more gain an antenna has the flatter the radiating disc gets. But it starts losing coverage vertically.

Yes/no higher gain antennas can help with obstructions.

For instance, vehicular offroading with a group where there are elevation changes I will get better coverage for the radios above and below me with a lower gain antenna such as a 1/4.

Where if I were to drive in a flat wooded area. I would want a higher gain antenna in the hopes of punching through the leaves and trees.

When it comes to hts. I haven't noticed a night and day difference between 0 and higher gain antennas. The ht often is only around 4'8" to 6' off the ground. Often maybe a slightly better radio report from otherside of the repeater with a higher gain antenna. What i do notice is the eye poking risk, physical interference and the constant jabbing of the higher gain (often much longer) antenna.

Truthfully ht antennas are relatively cheap. Try different one (borrow if you can) to see what works and you can live with.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

excellent synopsis.  I look at antenna gains sort of like squeezing jello.  You only have so much energy, so you can shape it (yagi/beam).  Its all trade-offs.  Depends on your unique situations/requirements.   Best of luck.