Non-Profit/ Club

[Guest WRWT612]

I am president and trustee of a no-profit is SC.  Is there a way to secure a GMRS license and call sign for this charity?  Thereby allowing the 501c3 and its members to utilize its license?  Thank you.  Vicki C

[BoxCar]

No. Licenses are issued to individuals only in the Personal Radio Services. However, you can use FRS freely within your group.

[TrikeRadio]

or use MURS radios / frequencies... no license required, but like FRS it is limited in power output and other things. only HT (hand held transmitters) not mobile units. and limited range.

[wayoverthere]

2 hours ago, TrikeRadio said:

. only HT (hand held transmitters) not mobile units. and limited range.

Ahem

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wouxun-kg-1000m.html

[WRQC527]

5 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Ahem

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wouxun-kg-1000m.html

Try as I may, I can't figure out why this is a $400 (with sales tax) radio. 

[WRXB215]

Just now, WRQC527 said:

Try as I may, I can't figure out why this is a $400 (with sales tax) radio. 

Because they only made one. 

[nokones]

Your best bet is get a Business Radio License in the Club's name and use the Part 90.35 freqs. You might want to consider both VHF and UHF itinerant freqs for your license to avoid any frequency coordination. 

It is my understanding that the freq. coordinators have been reluctant to approve any applications for Statewide use because the itinerant freqs can be used for that purpose. Also, by rule, the UHF itinerant freqs are limited to 6 watts whereas with the VHF itinerants they can be 50 watts with the exception of a couple of the itinerants that are limited to 35 watts, which is no big deal.

You can file for the new license on-line, it's pretty easy and I would submit your license for both analog and digital emissions for each freq and for Nationwide, not including Alaska and Hawaii. Your filing fees will be about $205 and again, by rule you won't have to go through any freq. coordination.

The positive point of all of this is that your Club members won't need to get an individual license and they will be able to operate under the Club's Radio Station Authorization, but depending on the brand of the radio(s) they own, they may have to buy a real radio because they won't be able to program any Part 90 freqs in their POS CCR junk.

In my Area, Phoenix, most of the commercial operations, at least the small operations, have migrated to FRS, or SMRs, or Cell Phones, and the VHF Part 90.35 freqs are no longer crowded. I very seldom hear anyone on a VHF itinerant freq.

If you elect to go the Part 90.35 itinerant freq route, I would take a very hard look at the VHF Band since most if not all of your Club members may have to procure a real radio anyways. A lot less restrictions by going a Part 90.35 route. You just need to pick a band to use.

One of the downsides to use a Part 90.35 freq. would be if you want to put a simplex base station or a repeater on the air. In that case you will need to go through frequency coordination and in the VHF and finding a couple of available freqs to marry up as a repeater pair in most Metropolitan and if not all rural areas, may be problematic. 

Finding a freq. pair in the UHF band may be a bit easier since the UHF band freqs are allocated in pairs whereas the VHF Band is not allocated in pairs and almost all of the VHF freqs are not dedicated/classed for just mobile or base operations, and can be used for either operation, except for just a few, and I mean, just a very small number of VHF freqs. are limited to a specific operation.

At least you may have choices.

[SteveShannon]

29 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

Try as I may, I can't figure out why this is a $400 (with sales tax) radio. 

It’s $369 (sales tax is simply a function of the state you live in) and it appears to be a retuned and reduced power version of the kg-1000g, which is $389.  They probably didn’t start all over from scratch, and parts is parts, so with the possible exception of a couple of smaller final output transistors it would be priced similarly.  The deletion of the higher priced finals could account for the $20 lower price.

And @WRXB215 has a real point, they probably don’t anticipate selling a ton of 2 watt mobile radios so economies of scale play a small role.  I’m less surprised by the cost than I am by the fact that they built the product at all.  I wonder if they simply retooled a commercial radio.

[nokones]

8 hours ago, TrikeRadio said:

or use MURS radios / frequencies... no license required, but like FRS it is limited in power output and other things. only HT (hand held transmitters) not mobile units. and limited range.

That is a "Less Than An Accurate" statement.

You'll need to show me any where in Part 95, subpart J, that your statement is accurate insofar as the limitation to only handheld transmitters and not mobile units, and the restriction/limitation on the effective range?

[WRUU653]

39 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I wonder if they simply retooled a commercial radio

It looks to me like both the KG-1000g and the KG-1000m look like the ham KG-UV980P. I don’t know if there are more versions out there or not.

[WRYZ926]

Yes the KG-1000G and KG-1000M are the same radios as the KG-UV980P. Wouxun did take some of the menu items out of the KG-1000G when they went to the Plus model.

And the KG-1000G can't be unlocked either. or at least I have not found anyone that has done it. So I am sure that the KG-1000M is also locked down tight.

And to answer the original question. GMRS license are for individuals only. The local amateur radio club I belong to is actually a non profit organization. And we have to keep an individual's call sign assigned to the GMRS repeater where as we use a club call sign for the 2m and 70cm repeaters.

[WRQC527]

25 minutes ago, nokones said:

That is a "Less Than An Accurate" statement.

You'll need to show me any where in Part 95, subpart J, that your statement is accurate insofar as the limitation to only handheld transmitters and not mobile units, and the restriction/limitation on the effective range?

I think what trikeradio is talking about is the practical limitations, not the rules limitations. Also there is an "About" paragraph on the FCC website that was probably written before the $369 (plus tax, which duh, is a function of the state I live in) mobile radio that talks about its use with portable handheld radios.

[TrikeRadio]

MURS is limited to 2 watts. I dont know about that mobile unit posted above but that is very uncommon. Most MURS units then are HTs.

There is a height maximum of how high you can put an external antenna (can't find that at the moment)

and the typical range you can expect is maybe 10 miles at most. so... yeah.

More info onine:

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/multi-use-radio-service-murs

 

 

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, WRQC527 said:

Try as I may, I can't figure out why this is a $400 (with sales tax) radio. 

@SteveShannon summed it up pretty well; between cost of parts for the base radios (as @WRUU653 mentions, it's based on the uv-980p, as is the kg1000g) and expected sales, it's not an inexpensive proposition. There's also the factor of spreading out the cost of certification across the expected sales, which doesn't play favorably here.

Limitations wise, yeah, it does get a little questionable if it's worth a mobile though...kind of like trying to have a frs mobile...there was one made for a bit but it just wasn't practical nor worth the effort.

On a side note, i dug a little more on Google and found one other mobile MURS radio advertised, but the mention made no mention of certification or a FCC id, and appeared to be a rebadged kt8900n(sold as a forklift radio).

 

1 hour ago, SteveShannon said:

It’s $369 (sales tax is simply a function of the state you live in) and it appears to be a retuned and reduced power version of the kg-1000g, which is $389.  They probably didn’t start all over from scratch, and parts is parts, so with the possible exception of a couple of smaller final output transistors it would be priced similarly.  The deletion of the higher priced finals could account for the $20 lower price.

 

And @WRXB215 has a real point, they probably don’t anticipate selling a ton of 2 watt mobile radios so economies of scale play a small role.  I’m less surprised by the cost than I am by the fact that they built the product at all.  I wonder if they simply retooled a commercial radio.

 

[TrikeRadio]

6 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Ahem

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wouxun-kg-1000m.html

LOL
OK... I guess there are mobile MURS radios... 

But really? $370 for a two watt radio? This looks like a desperate attempt to separate money from a business that does not know better.
"hey look... a no-license-required two watt radio for your business needs. Hmmm.

 

[wayoverthere]

38 minutes ago, TrikeRadio said:

LOL
OK... I guess there are mobile MURS radios... 

But really? $370 for a two watt radio? This looks like a desperate attempt to separate money from a business that does not know better.
"hey look... a no-license-required two watt radio for your business needs. Hmmm.

 

Filling a niche almost no once else is in? may be good or bad depending if there's a market for mobiles or not.

At least it's based on a decent quality radio and looks to be properly certified and legal, unlike the forklift one:

https://forklifttrainingsystems.com/product/forklift-roger-radio/

[WRUE951]

2 hours ago, WRQC527 said:

Try as I may, I can't figure out why this is a $400 (with sales tax) radio. 

$400 can buy one nice radio that would run circles around that Wouxun  

[dosw]

6 minutes ago, TrikeRadio said:

MURS is limited to 2 watts. I dont know about that mobile unit posted above but that is very uncommon. Most MURS units then are HTs.

There is a height maximum of how high you can put an external antenna (can't find that at the moment)

and the typical range you can expect is maybe 10 miles at most. so... yeah.

More info onine:

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/multi-use-radio-service-murs

 

 

This is what you're looking for: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-J

"The highest point of any MURS station antenna must not be more than 18.3 meters (60 feet) above the ground or 6.10 meters (20 feet) above the highest point of the structure on which it is mounted."

Other interesting sections:

"A grant of equipment certification will not be issued for MURS transmitters capable of operating under both this subpart (MURS) and under any other subparts of this chapter (except part 15)." (We know this; MURS type approval precludes being approved for transmission in other bands, and vice versa.)

"Each MURS transmitter type must be designed such that the transmitter power output does not exceed 2 Watts under normal operating conditions."

"A MURS transmitter must transmit only emission types A1D, A2B, A2D, A3E, F2B, F1D, F2D, F3E, and G3E. Emission types A3E, F3E and G3E may include selective calling or tone-operated squelch tones to establish or continue voice communications. MURS transmitters are prohibited from transmitting in the continuous carrier mode."

What do those mean?

• A1D = AM, 1-channel digital without subcarrier, data, telemetry, or remote control
• A2B = AM, One channel digital with subcarrier, telegraphy (such as teletype)
• A2D = AM, one channel digital with subcarrier, data, telemetry, or RC.
• A3E = AM, one channel analog, voice.
• F2B = FM, one channel digital with subcarrier, telegraphy (such as teletype)
• F3E = FM, one channel analog, voice (this is what most people are buying 2-way MURS radios for)
• G3E = PM (phase modulation), one channel analog, voice

"The occupied bandwidth of emissions transmitted on the center frequencies 151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz, and 151.940 MHz must not exceed 11.25 kHz. The occupied bandwidth of emissions transmitted on the center frequencies 154.570 MHz and 154.600 MHz must not exceed 20.0 kHz. The occupied bandwidth of type A3E emissions must not exceed 8.0 kHz." (Narrowband FM for channels 1-3, Wideband FM allowed for Blue and Green, AM has to be 8kHz or less.)

This section talks about unwanted emissions: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-95.2779 ... and it has some interesting information about audio filtering to avoid interference.

 

[WRYZ926]

4 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

$400 can buy one nice radio that would run circles around that Wouxun  

My Icom IC-2730A will run circles around my Wouxun KG-1000G. And the ICom is $80 cheaper than the Wouxun. The problem is that the Icom is NOT certified for use outside of the amateur radio bands. So kind of a moot point since we are talking about radios that are FCC certified for MURS. And non certified radios will only go down to 5 watts which is more than allowed on MURS.

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, TrikeRadio said:

LOL
OK... I guess there are mobile MURS radios... 

But really? $370 for a two watt radio? This looks like a desperate attempt to separate money from a business that does not know better.
"hey look... a no-license-required two watt radio for your business needs. Hmmm.

 

Maybe, but maybe not.  It’s not just a two watt radio; it has an easy to see display, controls that can be used without removing gloves, and it can be made more rugged than a handheld simply due to the physical size. Plus it stays with the piece of equipment in which it’s mounted.  A company might prefer it for those reasons, especially if they have had handheld units walk off accidentally.  
If you’re running a business and MURS radios have proven to work for you, and you want to permanently mount a radio in your forklifts, backhoes, or even the office, this form factor works better than a handheld.  The simple fact is that businesses don’t care much about RF output as long as it’s enough.
$369 for a radio used by a business just isn’t very expensive at all when compared to Motorola commercial radios.  

[WRUE951]

1 hour ago, WRYZ926 said:

My Icom IC-2730A will run circles around my Wouxun KG-1000G. And the ICom is $80 cheaper than the Wouxun. The problem is that the Icom is NOT certified for use outside of the amateur radio bands. So kind of a moot point since we are talking about radios that are FCC certified for MURS. And non certified radios will only go down to 5 watts which is more than allowed on MURS.

Who, What, When, Where, Why???