OK, I have this problem...

[tweiss3]

What antenna is that? Is it a 2-piece? I've heard of water intrusion problems with 2 piece antennas, or even at the base were it goes fiberglass to aluminum/steel, could be the antenna and not the coax.

[LeoG]

It is a 2pc antenna but not in the sense that there is an opening for water to get into.  The brass screw coupler seems sealed on the top and lower sections of the antenna and have a rubber O ring between them.  Anything is possible with water.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CF9DV3ZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[SteveShannon]

33 minutes ago, LeoG said:

I ordered it from there and the canceled my order and refunded my money.  Said they didn't have it in stock and nor could they get it.

Ahh, bummer.  Sorry about that.

[SteveShannon]

41 minutes ago, LeoG said:

I ordered it from there and the canceled my order and refunded my money.  Said they didn't have it in stock and nor could they get it.

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this and perhaps the STUF just isn’t available anywhere, but this map might help you find a distributor near you.

http://crossdevices.com/cross_devices_website2018_022.htm

 

[LeoG]

Yep, I was pretty bummed myself.  Looked like the perfect product to do exactly what I wanted.  eBay has 20 tubes for sale, but I only need one.

[LeoG]

Just now, SteveShannon said:

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this and perhaps the STUF just isn’t available anywhere, but this map might help you find a distributor near you.

http://crossdevices.com/cross_devices_website2018_022.htm

Yep, been there.  Went thought the whole internet search.  Only place you can find it is eBay, if you want 20 tubes of the stuff.

 

[WRYZ926]

26 minutes ago, LeoG said:

It is a 2pc antenna but not in the sense that there is an opening for water to get into.  The brass screw coupler seems sealed on the top and lower sections of the antenna and have a rubber O ring between them.  Anything is possible with water.

The Comet antennas have plastic connectors with rubber washers that seal the pieces and I still wrap them just like I wrap coax connections. All materials will expand and contract depending on the temperature. wrapping the antenna joints might not be 100% necessary but it sure doesn't hurt and gives a little more protection from the elements.

I have seen water get into weird places with 50 mph plus winds.

 

[SteveShannon]

2 minutes ago, LeoG said:

 

Alright, I’ll quit looking.  If I come across it somewhere in single quantities I’ll let you know, if you want.

[tcp2525]

10 hours ago, LeoG said:

Well looking at a set of mating N connectors it looks like the mating surfaces are the flat area of the female and the rubber base of the male.  If you put a small coating of dielectric grease on the female flat mating surface it looks like the internal portion of the connector has an excellent seal from anything penetrating it.  The only ingress would be from the rear of the connector using capillary action into the fittings.  Water getting in through the threads should have no chance of getting inside the fitting if it has been tightened properly.

 

And if you install the heat shrink tubing that has hot melt glue inside it is 100% waterproof. Quality connectors come supplied with a piece of heat shrink. I always keep in stock several hundred feet of heat shrink just in case.

[tcp2525]

13 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

The Comet antennas have plastic connectors with rubber washers that seal the pieces and I still wrap them just like I wrap coax connections. All materials will expand and contract depending on the temperature. wrapping the antenna joints might not be 100% necessary but it sure doesn't hurt and gives a little more protection from the elements.

I have seen water get into weird places with 50 mph plus winds.

 

And you'll find in Comet's instructions is to seal around that plastic fitting. My 712 is well sealed. 

[WRYZ926]

4 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

And you'll find in Comet's instructions is to seal around that plastic fitting. My 712 is well sealed. 

This is true and I would have sealed the connectors anyway. I would wrap brass connections too.

[tcp2525]

2 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

This is true and I would have sealed the connectors anyway. I would wrap brass connections too.

Yep, always good to adhere to proper weatherproofing/waterproofing techniques so you don't have to do the job twice.

[LeoG]

8 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Alright, I’ll quit looking.  If I come across it somewhere in single quantities I’ll let you know, if you want.

Sure, keep looking.  I won't need it for a while.  Thanks.

[LeoG]

Well, above freezing and rain all day.  SWR 2.20.  Seems to really affect my reception

[warthog74]

14 hours ago, LeoG said:

Sounds like something from the clothing industry.

There are thousands of websites that say this. Google it. Believe what you want, but weatherproof does NOT = waterproof. An N connector will not solve your problem as it is not waterproof. But suit yourself and waste more money, and have this same problem again in 6-12 months. If you properly wrap your connections regardless of connectors, you shouldn't have any problems for a few years. 

[SteveShannon]

41 minutes ago, warthog74 said:

There are thousands of websites that say this. Google it. Believe what you want, but weatherproof does NOT = waterproof. An N connector will not solve your problem as it is not waterproof. But suit yourself and waste more money, and have this same problem again in 6-12 months. If you properly wrap your connections regardless of connectors, you shouldn't have any problems for a few years. 

In fact, neither “weatherproof” nor “waterproof” actually mean anything in the absence of quantitative data.  They’re marketing words, meant to attract customers rather than tranquilizing them with the language actually used in standards. For instance, “waterproof” means nothing without some kind of data about water quality, water pressure, and period of exposure.

Fortunately, Amphenol knows the value of standards and they included the standards the two N connectors comply with.  The “weatherproof” one has passed mil std 202, method 106 which is very stringent.  It’s a short standard, totaling only a few pages describing the torture to which these connectors have been exposed. https://landandmaritimeapps.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-std-202/std202mthd106.pdf

The other N connector, which Amphenol attaches the marketing phrase “Extreme Exposure” to has passed IP67, which means it can be immersed in fresh water for thirty minutes at a depth of up to one meter.  

Now I don’t know Leo’s exact circumstances, but I doubt that mast on top of his building ever experiences the extremes reflected by either test listed above.  Certainly if the connectors are immersed he has problems worse than SWR.

And I agree that the connectors should be covered with glue lined heat shrink if they’re going to be mounted permanently.  I’ve never said different and neither has tcp2525. So let’s stop arguing over the meaning of marketing language and take away some actual knowledge.
 

 

[warthog74]

11 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

And I agree that the connectors should be covered with glue lined heat shrink if they’re going to be mounted permanently….  <snip> ....So let’s stop arguing over the meaning of marketing language and take away some actual knowledge.

That's fine. Marketing “lingo” aside, proper wrapping/sealing is all that’s required regardless of connector type is all i’m saying. There is nothing wrong with pl259/so239 if installed properly. Spending money on N connectors is not really going to change anything or be a magical “permanent fix”.

[tcp2525]

31 minutes ago, warthog74 said:

That's fine. Marketing “lingo” aside, proper wrapping/sealing is all that’s required regardless of connector type is all i’m saying. There is nothing wrong with pl259/so239 if installed properly. Spending money on N connectors is not really going to change anything or be a magical “permanent fix”.

Here's a power divider with N connectors that are sealed by soldering then in place. All possible ways for water to get in are soldered. I can put this on the bottom of the Mariana Trench without wrapping and no water will get in. Let's see you do that with SO-239s. Even Marconi wouldn't use PL-259s

[LeoG]

Wow, it's pretty abrupt.  The temps have been dropping pretty consistently today.  35º expected to go to about 10ºF tonight.  So I've put a timer on and every 1/2 hour I've been checking the SWR.   Been sitting at 2.08 for most of the morning and day.  Each time I checked the temp.  Starting at 31º is when I was doing the 1/2 hour checks.  It got down to 23º and it was still 2.08.   1/2 hour later I checked and it's 1.19 now.  So I wasn't able to catch it decreasing.  It'll stay here til it gets above freezing again. 

I'm just wondering why it took so long to freeze up or change SWR.  Not sure if there's a direct correlation to water turning to ice or that the ice reached 21º because I don't know when the ice forms.

[LeoG]

Well temps been rising and got to 23º and the SWR is still 1.19, so it's not strictly temperature related.  Sounds like the freezing just took time to happen.

[SvenMarbles]

I’m not an anti-Chinese radio type, but I had a similar problem with a Chinese off label antenna. SWR was being affected a lot by dampness and sometimes just by mystery… I ended up just taking that down and replaced it with a Comet antenna and was really sure to silicone tape up every possible ingress point. No more random bouts of erratic SWR.

[LeoG]

Well I came up with a test that I might be able to do.  It won't be at the antenna, but it'll be at the lightning arrester.  I was thinking about taking a hair dryer or heat gun and heat up the fittings to thaw them.  If the SWR goes up I know the fittings or lightning arrester is the culprit.  If nothing happens it's got to be the antenna or it's fitting..

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, LeoG said:

Well I came up with a test that I might be able to do.  It won't be at the antenna, but it'll be at the lightning arrester.  I was thinking about taking a hair dryer or heat gun and heat up the fittings to thaw them.  If the SWR goes up I know the fittings or lightning arrester is the culprit.  If nothing happens it's got to be the antenna or it's fitting..

Good idea. 

[LeoG]

I can reach those fittings without the need to remove the antenna or a bucket truck.

[WRYZ926]

Try taking any adaptors you might have out of the loop too. I had a 90 degree SO239 to PL259 along with a straight PL259 to PL259 adaptor go bad on me which caused the SWR to go up.

I was using those two adaptors to connect my lightening arrestor to the bulkhead. I removed the 90 degree adaptor all together and replaced the male to male adaptor with a 12" coax jumper and my SWR went back down.