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We do a net on our GMRS repeater. We use to do it every Tuesday night right after our 2m net but have since cut the GMRS net back to once a month. We decided right away not to link our GMRS repeater at all. We do have an Allstar node on our 2m repeater that gets used occasionally. The rule clarifications on linking GMRS repeaters shouldn't have much of an impact on actual nets in my opinion. I participate in several 2m nets every week. It is nice to know which repeaters I can reach and to know how far I can get out on the simplex nets. It's a good way to test your equipment. And for those that don't care for nets, they can always change the channel/frequency. As others have said, there is enough different things one can do with GMRS and amateur radio that there is something for everyone.

If the net has a specific topic it could be interesting. For a while the original wide area local GMRS repeater held a "Prepper's Net" on a Tuesday night once or twice a month at 7PM. They stopped because a few had an issue with it, and some infrequent jamming I believe. Some of the topics were informative when the net was active.

Today's update: TL;DW: Linked repeater networks in Texas, Arizona, North Carlina and Arkansas have shut down in the last 24 hours.

I've done some research into ground planes, and it's entirely possible I've got some of this wrong, but here's what I understand: A good ground plane will provide a radius that is at least a quarter wavelength. So for GMRS, that would be at least 6.4" radius. Ground planes should extend in all directions along the horizontal plane, or at a downward diagonal, depending on the antenna / design. If the ground plane isn't a contiguous surface it is often set up as a series of rods. Two opposed rods would have better propagation lobes along the plane of those two rods, and worse at 90 degrees. Three rods is fairly common. Four is also very common. There are diminishing returns for ground plane rods beyond four, though there's always a non-zero positive impact to adding more symmetrical rods. There's also a diminishing return for making the rods longer than a quarter wavelength. But at less than a quarter, the lobe tries to curve around the end of the rods. Asymmetrical ground planes may have a somewhat truncated propagation lobe in the shorter directions. In your case, the propagation lobes may try to curve around the rack's pipe, for example. The point being, I don't think a roof rack's beam is ideal as a ground plane. But ideal may be the enemy of good enough. However, given that there are pretty good "no ground plane" antennas out there, you may be able to at least select one that doesn't force as much compromise. For my RV I use a Laird TE B4505CN ("N" means no ground plane). I had to trim its bottom whip element for GMRS, but product literature helps by suggesting where that sweet spot is. And as I mentioned in another post here recently, it's very easy if you have a VNA instrument (NanoVNA). Someone who doesn't want to buy measurement equipment could probably find someone on a local GMRS repeater willing to spend a half hour helping measure and cut. But for the B4505CN the manual recommends the appropriate length for GMRS. It's a 5.1dbi antenna.

I have to agree that just sticking with the basics is best when starting out. I still have not gotten into DMR, Yaesu Fusion, Icom D-Star, etc. due to the added complexity and steeper learning curve. And none of those digital modes are compatible. Yaesu uses Fusion while Icom uses D-Star. Most others use DMR. I wanted something simple when I replaced my TYT TH7800 in the shack. I was looking at the Icom IC-2730 and ID-5100. I went with the IC-2730 since I didn't want to mess with D-Star at all. In hind sight I should have started out with the Icom IC-2730 instead of the TYT TH7800. The Yaesu FTM-500 will serve @PuddlePirate quite well even if he never dips his toes into digital. He has already dipped his toes into radio by having his GMRS license.

Well he has the radio so he is going to be forced to learn the advance features to use it, not a bad thing. It will convolute the learn path, let's face it digital is a side path with its own learning hill and concepts. He'll be fine. Just do some basic research on questions, before asking someone. It will limit the side branches of topics, there are a lot. I have friends that can spend hours just talking about pl tones, from why some tones are better than others, it's history etc. My brother who works mobility for the federal government said it best. "People buy flagship phones not because they need it but because they can, most don't even use 20% of the phone capabilities. Even myself and you whom are phone geeks barely use more than 50% and we are serious power users." Features go unused that can cause headaches and vulnerabilities. Enjoy the radio. If it becomes too much buy a ceaptacular bofeng uv5r, it's pretty basic and disposable (as a gift, if it get destroyed oh well). Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I agree there’s nothing wrong with wanting, or even buying a really good radio. One thing I see though is people buying something that is way over their heads when they’re just starting out instead of getting something simple at first. I absolutely understand wanting to buy something that’s quality made; nobody want the bitter taste that accompanies a poor quality piece of crap that other people deride and which fails prematurely. But as your VEC pointed out and you and @WRXP381 are correctly passing along, there are some inexpensive basic radios that are great starter radios and which will do a great job of allowing a person to learn the basics without getting lost in the extra features. A radio that uses DMR, YSF, or D-Star is just about the worst way to advise someone. If a person wants a mobile ham radio to use as a stepping stone, there are some really decent ones that can always be converted into go-boxes as they grow into more expensive radios with more features. And if a person wants to buy one radio that will be the only radio they ever need, they should prepare themselves for either a steep learning curve up front or being frustrated later on because when you first get into ham radios you have no idea what will interest you later and you don’t know what you don’t know. For a new ham wanting a name brand dual band radio that will be a workhorse for many years, the Yaesu FTM-6000, the Icom IC-2930A, or the Alinco DR-735 would all be very reasonable as starter radios that will continue to give great value over the years. The FTM-6000 is only $210 right now! If a person doesn’t feel the need to buy name brand, things like the Radioddity db20g can easily be a great starter radio for either GMRS or ham radio.

So... talked to a couple friends of mine here in the DC area. We're going to get the ball rolling on this. I appreciate the inspiration.

IMHO you would be better off right now with a cheap handheld like a Baofeng UV-9 (Ham version). No need to have a call sign and you can program in channels easily with Chirp-Next. That will let you listen and get a feel for how amateur radio functions. Go to the ARRL site and look for clubs in your area that have web sites. Those sites will often list the local repeaters and any nets conducted showing the repeater, day(s) of the week and the time the net runs. You may have to add hours to the time shown as many use Zulu or Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).

From the admin of GMRSLive posted today....

Negative = no or none Traffic = messages to pass

no, it does not sound like you are missing anything. Double check the tone in your Midland table, and if possible, confirm that the tone for the repeater is correct.. It is possible that the repeater/tone you are configuring is no longer online, and you are hearing a different repeater.

Dont give up sign this. If everyone complains we will get action. Forget about the FCC those are just rules not laws. The FCC is not in charge. Congress writes the laws. We can change this. This is how Satellite C band owners got the laws changes that allowed dish and direct tv to exist before the internet. There is a process to doing this and its been done many times. It works. When congress starts getting all these letters from people and not lobbyist they listen, Someone's going to ask the FCC WTF did they do. This will cause several actions 1 there was no comments opened before the action that's a violation. They will withdraw the rule and delay it. And congress may have hearings if we keep pushing. If so someone will have to go talk for GMRS for each state. If you want to keep linking this is what you need to do. call congress and the senate. or send this letter or send emails. https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/gmrs-repeater-linking-freedom https://www.elitedaily.com/p/whats-the-best-way-to-contact-your-congressperson-these-are-the-tips-you-need-to-know-8503943 https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm?Class=1 https://www.congress.gov/contact-us

Since I'm a gadget addict I got a NanoVNA a few days ago, for about $59 through Amazon. It came with two SMA-Male to SMA-Male cables, an SMA Female to SMC Female adapter, and three "standards" (open, short, and 50 ohm load), as well as a little stylus, and a lanyard with a guitar pick on it (presumably to use in place of the stylus). I wasn't expecting a lot, but I have to say, this thing is pretty cool, for the price. It's not professional-quality analysis gear, but for a hobbiest it's great. The first thing you should do when putting it to use is to calibrate it for the band you wish to analyze. You use the "standards" that it comes with to perform the calibration. I followed that up by putting an antenna on it, and on my RTL-SDRv4, and verifying its signal generation was accurate. It was close enough without any tweaking. Next, I used it to test some antennas. At first I just confirmed that the MXTA26 is very well tuned, out of the box, centered on 465MHz. And then I put the NA771G on it: In that graph, you can see that I have it configured to scan the range from 420MHz to 480MHz. I've set a marker at 462.2MHz just by dragging it into place with the stylus. I could have set it more precisely through the menu. The S11 LOGMAG represents return loss. The lower the dip on the graph, the better (less reflection/return means more signal is radiating, which is what an antenna is supposed to do). The blue line here indicates SWR. And as you can see for the NA771G, it is 1.055:1 at 460.2MHz. At 480MHz (I don't have a marker set there), it was about 1.27:1. The green curve is the Smith diagram. And the purplse is the |Z|, coming in at 52.2 ohms at 460.2MHz. There are many graph views, I selected four of them. But they include logmag, phase, delay, smith, swr, resistance, reactance, |Z|, polar, linear, real, imaginary, Q factor, conductivity, susceptivity, |Y|, series C, series L, Parallel R, Parallel X, Parallel C, Parallel L ... most of which I don't comprehend. One thing that I learned was how great it is to be able to look in realtime at the various curves. It made it really easy to observe changes as I added and removed the ground plane rods from my Nagoya GPK-01 (Ground plane kit) when the antennas were mounted on a camera tripod where there's no good inherent ground plane. And it was really useful to be able to observe what happens when I take a half centimeter off of an antenna. In the case of the NA771G, if one were wanting to tune it (which you can't), you might decide to subtract a fraction of a centimeter from its length, and you can see that on the chart. I used the SWR and Logmag curves to tune my Laird TE B4505CN antenna, for example, as I recognized its SWR dipped a little further to the left of the GMRS band. By trimming its base element down to about 10" (taking about 2cm off), I moved the dip to 465MHz. And knowing which direction to go was really only possible by looking at these curves and observing what they do as I move the element in and out a little with its set screws. I also tested the pass-through mode using a VHF/UHF diplexer, verifying the cutoff ranges for each of the diplexer's ports. A good feature is the ability to plug it into a computer and command the device, and observe its graphs, right on the larger screen of a computer. On my Linux laptop the NanoVNASaver application was already available for Ubuntu install through the apt and apt-get package manager tools without having to compile from source (one dot-release behind the Git repository). With the free NanoVNASaver software I can specify a scan range and set up multi-pass averaging. And the software can step through a scan range to achieve much finer resolution than the device natively supports. For example, if I use the native 101 data points the device supports to scan from 144-480MHz, that's one sample every 324kHz. Not very good resolution. But if I tell the external software to take 3240 samples, it will step through the range 100 samples at a time, and get me resolution finer than I can reasonably use on a full size monitor. Another interesting option, through the NanoVNCSaver software, I'm able to see feed line length and attenuation. I can test a 50 foot run of LMR400, and a 50 foot run of RG58, and see loss per frequency. That's really interesting information for a hobbiest. Some negatives: If you're completely in standalone mode (no computer), it's only got 100 sample points in a given scan. So if you're trying to optimize a dual-band antenna, you would want to concentrate on 2m, and then on 70cm, going back and forth one at a time, rather than trying to show both on the screen while tuning an antenna. This is where using a computer with a much higher sampling rate is important. Its screen it pretty tiny, too. Having spent the $59, I kind of am on the fence as to whether I should have spent $89 to get the larger screen. On the other hand, adding a computer to the mix, even an inexpensive low-powered laptop, the screen becomes irrelevant, and sample-points become virtually infinite. Another negative is the lack of instructions. It comes with a single page showing where to find the various menu options, but no other explanation. It took some youtube videos and online reading to figure it out. And without a microSD card you're missing out on being able to save screenshots (though you can take a screenshot through the computer's software), and limited on number of calibration configurations you can store. But most of those shortcomings can be overcome with an external computer and/or a cheap microSD card. For my purposes this device is fantastic. With the Surecom SR102, I could see the SWR of a given antenna setup. With this device, I can see which direction things need to go in tuning antenna setups. And I can verify a diplexer is working as intended.

Okay, that's what I thought. I'll just leave it on the channel and see if I can pick anything up. Thanks for the quick reply!

Nope. If you spoke and got a reply back, the thing appears to be setup correctly. You can turn off your Receive tone and have the radio open to any traffic on that channel (not just repeater traffic). But if it's a busy area, that can be a mess trying to separate every FRS radio on that channel from your repeater. Menu? Or Monitor? I'm not really sure what that's referring to. You don't need to "connect" to the repeater to hear it. It transmits just like your radio, on a frequency, usually with a tone that you can choose to listen for or not (as per the above). At least on GMRS repeaters, there's nothing else needed to hear the thing.

It should be opposite - TX on 462.625 and RX on 467.625 Also click on "Help" then the "Index" tab - Help in most older software it doesn't work but in CE27 it still does. It give a brief definition of almost all the settings.

This ^^^ There is a Net the PAPA system does on outdoor activities where they pick a new subject each time. Fun to listen to even when it’s a subject that isn’t in my realm.

And unfortunately that’s sometimes the issue. People buy an expensive high end digital radio that’s so difficult to use for regular analog communications that they get frustrated and give up (and as a bit of a confession I realize my statements don’t make him feel any better about it). I almost think he might be better served by boxing up the FTM-500 temporarily, picking up a basic dual band radio such as one I mentioned, and learning all he can about basic analog communications.

Given the frequent questions about people wanting to setup their own private repeater maybe now is a good time to go shopping for equipment.

Give it a couple days. It takes some time for this site to update after the FCC issues your call sign.

I'm glad I added that person to my ignore list.

The boring, endless monotony of Amateur Radio and GMRS nets, is what keeps me away from nets. I do join local severe weather nets, mainly as a listener, but the check in nets are just too mind numbing for me.

Correction.. 2nd most..

I’m right there with you. Here’s my takeaway from this thread… first make popcorn and second… I find it easier to listen to someone I don’t agree with that is respectful than someone I agree with that is being rude.

WOW, I spent most of the day at my local VA hospital to come home to all of this. I'll keep my inter-service rivalry comments to myself (for now). And it looks like I can add another to my ignore list too. @OffRoaderX, @marcspaz, @SteveShannon and others are very intelligent and do their research. I might not always agree with them but I do always take into account what they have to say.

I will make a suggestion that once you pass the Tech practice tests with at least a 92% score every time then you are ready for the real test. Another suggestion is once you start getting a 92% or higher each time on the Tech test, go ahead and start studying for the General test too. There isn't much difference in the two. General does go into more technical details but it is pretty easy. Tech is limited to a small portion of the 10m band only. General opens up all of the HF bands. Like @kidphc said, there are bad apples in every bunch. Just ignore those type of people and you will be fine. Most guys will be helpful when they find out you are new to amateur radio. Don't hesitate to find an Elmer (long time amateur radio operator) in your are that will be more than happy to help you study and answer questions. There are some curmudgeons even on GMRS in my area. I ignore the curmudgeons no matter what band or frequency they are on.

Exactly! The only thing that should be affected are those long and pointless national and regional nets that seemingly drone on forever. "Net control, this is WABC123 in Miami, checking in. Thanks for calling the Net, Bill." "Net Control, this is WDEF456 in Seattle checking in. Thanks for calling the Net, Bill." "Net Control, this is WGHI789 in New York checking in. Thanks for calling the Net, Bill." ...and on, and on, and on, and, on... If anyone really misses this so much, hopefully someone will record the last one and put it on a CD or similar. On what would have been Net night and time each week, they can play it. It will be pretty much the same info and informational value.

Repeater channels in GMRS transmit a +5 so yes in this case 467.675 would be correct. However it looks like you have a ham radio (not certified for GMRS) and I am not sure if it is able to transmit on GMRS frequencies or if there is ability to unlock.

Yes.

Isn't the GM-88 a DMR radio for the ham bands?

There is definitely possibility to include additional frequency allocations, modulation types (p25/c4fm for example) and modifications to existing rules. There is a tremendous amount of effort, multiple agency and organization coordination required for identifying potential additional frequencies, expanding an existing service. So, the team will be looking at level of effort and likelihood to succeed. We are going to need public support in order for any changes to occur. I am 100% certain that any proposed changes will be socialized in places like like MyGMRS. We have just started discussing what the makeup of the IPT will look like. Once the team is selected, the meetings will start. I suspect this will take some time... and we can't make any promises beyond we will try... but key players are committed. I was wait for the "that escalated quickly" meme.

the Nano is a must have for the tool chest, especially for the price. I tune all my antennas with the Nano before deploying and they always check out perfect on the SWR meter. Couple of friends even have use a Nano to tune multiplexers.

I have the ft5d. It works great for me, but a blind friend has the ft3d and a touchscreen is extremely difficult for a blind user. He’s great about learning to use keyboards. A sighted vendor tried to talk him out of getting a vx-6. He thought it would be too difficult, but I sent him mine to try for a few weeks. He loved it and bought one for himself. He still has the ft3. Sometimes he’ll FaceTime me so I can steer his fingers to use the touchscreen. Lately I’ve been wondering if the ft70 would work better for him for fusion rather than the ft3.

Fortunately the FTM-500 can easily be used as a basic analog radio. Dual receive and the dual display could be temporarily disabled to reduce a little confusion and then re-enabled as the user’s skills grow.

This is interesting. I saw that you had previous experience with regulations. Do you think there is a way to make extra frequency allocations specifically for linked repeaters, considering the band is rather limited? It would be nice to see a prepared and informed group approach the FCC with ideas like this.

I dont have my laptop in front of me so I dont remember where you pull the model number, but YES, the Up/Download IS backwards (wrong!!) and it causes me MUCH wailing and gnashing of teeth!

Nah. You kinda described the negative. I think all healthy opinions should always be welcomed. It's negative, berating behavior that shouldn't be tolerated on a forum. Sarcasm, jokes etc are hard to read/pickup on at times in text. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

NGL, I tried when I started getting into this. I just couldn't. "This? This is what y'all are doing with your weeknights?" I'm glad people enjoy it. It's not for me.

That happens a lot on many of the forums I am on. SteveShannon did a good job and all any of us can do is point people in the right direction. Like the old saying goes, You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink the water.

Edit: Never mind. Its not worth it.

Lets not get carried away and jump to any conclusions..

See what I mean @marcspaz? Some of these little fellas just make it too easy. I mean, what kind of a person would get so worked up over videos that nobody is forcing them to watch? Fish..in..bucket...

Shawna, There is a lot to unpack in your message and I'll try to answer most of the points I see. First off, I agree with the statement you will not be able to connect to each other using hand-held radios WITHOUT going through a repeater. In an urban area the average range for one hand-held connecting to another is about 1/2 to 1 mile because of all the obstructions blocking the signal. Secondly, the radio service with the most likely success will be Amateur or ham radio. This is primarily because of the maturity of the service. Amateurs will have several VHF and UHF repeaters scattered around the area that can be used. The primary drawback to using amateur radio is the requirement to pass a 35-question test so you understand both the general rules on using radios in this service and you understand some of the theory about radios in general. The material is not overly technical and easy to understand with a middle school education. Local clubs often teach classes covering the licensing material so you can be prepared for the exam. Local club members are also a good resource for assistance with selecting radios and helping with operating them. As there are most likely several repeaters within your and your daughter's area, hand-held radios will work and the Baofeng UV-9 (ham version) is a good choice. Repeaters use a dedicated pair of frequencies in operation, you transmit on the repeater's input frequency and listen on the output frequency. A repeater immediately transmits what it hears on input over its output frequency so there is no time differential allowing a normal conversation where one radio is transmitting to the repeater and the other is listening to the repeater. Repeater operation is the same, regardless of the service it is used in. No, you are not automatically routed to a repeater, you have to have the repeater's frequencies in your radio and selected. Can GMRS work in your situation, perhaps. As the service hasn't been around as long as amateur radio there are fewer repeaters, but more are being installed every day. The disadvantage is there are fewer frequencies available for GMRS and the probability of congestion and interference is greater. The primary advantage is no test required even though the license cost is the same. If you have additional questions, you can click on my user name and send me a private message. Best of luck.

I guess it depends on how you define Nets? If you’re talking about linked repeaters it would seem so, however if you’re referring to a group getting together on a repeater to do a scheduled log in and discussion then no I don’t see that being an issue unless the system is linked.

It was definitely a joke people.

THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!!1 STOP LYING!!! if you use an illegal radio the FCC will triangulate your position and WILL issue a $10,000 fine or you could face prison! Its your choice to take the risk! ...i have literally seen "licensed ham-radio operators" tell people this online, so it MUST be true.. because they have a license!

I’ve also had great experiences with the FCC Helpline, and I’m able to find my way through ULS, but it’s certainly not intuitive. I’ve also had great experiences dealing with ATF (both as a 40 year former FFL and in meetings with leaders because of rocketry), BLM, IRS, and FAA. I know it’s popular to bash government agencies, but the vast majority of employees I’ve dealt with have been extremely conscientious and sincere in wanting to help.

I'll take "Questions Answered with 'No' " for $800, Alex.