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Actually those are all just your feelings. The rules do not prohibit using GMRS to chat about weather or antennas or kids first report card, but if you’ve determined that you must have sole access to radio frequencies for the many emergencies that you purport to swoop in and handle you’ve made a terrible choice in GMRS. One would think that the first emergency might have taught you that.

So now you’re also an expert on propagation of UHF in Connecticut? What is your need to act like such a complete douche?

Either that or he needs to go see his doctor again to get his medication doses adjusted. He's like a little kid - you never know what he is going to say.

It seems like in the morning his medications have not yet kicked-in because by evening his posts are usually not as rhee-tard-ted. One would also think that he would figure out that nobody likes him and he would go away, based on the constant corrections people post pointing out how virtually nothing he says is correct or helpful. On the bright-side, he is a great example of someone with zero self-awareness, and even less social-grace or abilities.

Why do so many people care how others use a radio. We can't really control what other people do, we can only control how we let their actions affect our mental well being. Much like radio operators; some are hobbyists, others are tools.

Again, NOT everyone lives in the ideal location for getting extreme ranges on UHF. And no one really cares that you get 200 miles when using repeaters. And most of us are also getting very tired of your negative comments. You either live a very sad life or you need to seek professional help and get on meds. Our GMRS repeater antennas are at 400 feet above ground and we are getting a coverage radios of 30-35 miles. This is due to the local terrain and forested areas. There is another repeater close by that haas a 50 mile radius but their tower site is at a higher level above sea level. Reception is going to be hit or miss for both repeaters depending on people's actual location. Most GMRS repeaters in Missouri have a coverage radius of 20-25 miles, again location and local terrain plays a big part. There are only 4-5 repeaters in the entire state that get a 50 mile radius because they are on the highest point in their area. And 70cm repeaters do not do any better. It is the nature of UHF. Our main 70cm repeater antennas are at 900 feet above ground on the same tower as our GMRS repeater and the 70cm repeater has the exact same coverage area as the GMRS repeater with the same dead zones. @WRJB532 Thank you for posting this for those that live in your area or for those that might be traveling through.

I get about 4 to 7 miles simplex with 50watts and a Retevis rt87 base antenna ontop of my ranch house. Y’all be thankful you live in the open. I’m shouldered by trees and rolling hills covered in forest.

Very well said. Here's a novel idea. Just use the radio and have fun!

No, if the repeater does not use the CTCSS tone on it's output you will not hear anything! (Not all repeaters use a tone on their output.) As OffroaderX said, you only need to set your transmit for the tone.

Is encryption even allowed here?

You only need the TX tone. The RX tone is optional, and as you can already see, will cause you confusion - so you should ignore it for now. After you level-up to "expert mode", then you can worry about the RX tone.

fun: (noun) enjoyment, amusement, or lighthearted pleasure. I just reread FCC 47 C.F.R, Part 95 Subpart E. There was no mention of fun or any of the defining terms for fun. It would seem that the federal government neither endorses nor encourages "fun". So how dare you sir!

I'm guessing before the rule changes GMRS licenses could be assigned to businesses. That would have been the attraction for the dual 90/95 certification. Now with the new rules it's only for individual users, unless the business has a grandfathered license they kept current.

The "book answer" is that moisture and precipitation have little effect on VHF and UHF signals, but I've definitely observed that it can happen sometimes. A few days ago, we had very heavy fog and drizzling rain and I couldn't get through to my usual repeater 20 miles away with a HT. Even with the base unit, I had to punch it up from 12 watts to 20 to be understood clearly. That's the first time I've had that happen, but it wasn't the first time we've had fog and rain around here, so there must be some "perfect storm" of conditions to make VHF/UHF noticeably attenuate due to precipitation. The problem with "book answers" is that my radios didn't read the book.

I thought this would be a good test for the A.I., so I wanted to see how Grok would answer - you are all now obsolete because it totally out-dorked all of you. Key Points Flat earth: Communication distance is about 3900 km. Real earth: Communication distance drops to about 11 km due to curvature. Flat Earth Scenario In a flat earth with no obstructions, two 5-watt UHF radios can communicate up to approximately 3900 km. This is because, without curvature, the signal can travel in a straight line, limited only by signal strength, not physical barriers. Real Earth Scenario On a real earth, the distance is limited by the line of sight, which is about 11 km for two people each 6 feet tall. This is surprising because it’s much shorter than the flat earth distance, showing how earth’s curvature significantly restricts radio range. Survey Note: Detailed Analysis of UHF Radio Communication Distances This section provides a comprehensive analysis of the communication distances for two 5-watt UHF radios under two scenarios: a flat earth with no obstructions and a real earth considering curvature. The analysis includes all calculations, assumptions, and supporting details to ensure a thorough understanding. Flat Earth Scenario: Theoretical Maximum Distance In a flat earth scenario, with no trees, buildings, or curvature, the communication distance is determined by the signal strength and free-space path loss. The problem specifies two six-foot-tall people with 5-watt UHF radios at the same elevation, with only air between them. Frequency Assumption: UHF radios operate between 300 MHz and 3 GHz. Based on typical usage, a frequency of 430 MHz was chosen, which falls within the common range for amateur radio (400-470 MHz), as confirmed by searches on 5-watt UHF radio frequency range. Transmitted Power: The radios transmit at 5 watts, which is 37 dBm (since 1 W = 30 dBm, and 5 W = 10 log10(5000) ≈ 37 dBm). Receiver Sensitivity: Typical receiver sensitivity for UHF radios is around -120 dBm for 12 dB SINAD, based on searches for UHF radio receiver sensitivity. This means the receiver can detect signals as weak as -120 dBm. Path Loss Calculation: The free-space path loss in dB is given by the formula: Path Loss (dB)=32.44+20log⁡10(d)+20log⁡10(f) where (d) is the distance in kilometers, and (f) is the frequency in MHz. For f=430 MHz, 20log⁡10(430)≈52.6772 dB. The total path loss is: 32.44+52.6772+20log⁡10(d)=85.1172+20log⁡10(d) For the signal to be detectable, the received power Pr=Pt−Path Loss≥−120 dBm. So: 37−(85.1172+20log⁡10(d))≥−120 Simplifying: 37−85.1172−20log⁡10(d)≥−120 −48.1172−20log⁡10(d)≥−120 −20log⁡10(d)≥−120+48.1172 −20log⁡10(d)≥−71.8828 Dividing by -20 (and reversing the inequality): log⁡10(d)≤3.59414 d≤103.59414≈3890.2 km Rounding to a reasonable figure, the communication distance is approximately 3900 km. This distance is theoretical and assumes no atmospheric losses beyond free-space path loss, which is reasonable given the problem’s conditions of “no trees or buildings or anything between them but air.” Real Earth Scenario: Impact of Curvature On a real earth, the communication distance is limited by the line of sight due to the earth’s curvature. The problem specifies no obstructions other than air, so we focus on the radio horizon. Height of Antennas: Each person is six feet tall, approximately 1.83 meters, which is 0.00183 km for consistency with the earth’s radius in kilometers. Earth’s Radius: The earth’s radius is approximately 6371 km. To account for atmospheric refraction, especially for UHF frequencies, the 4/3 earth radius model is used, making the effective radius r′=4/3×6371≈8494.67 km. Radio Horizon Calculation: The radio horizon distance for one person is given by: d=2×r′×h Substituting r′=8494.67 km and h=0.00183 km: 2×8494.67×0.00183≈31.048 d=31.048≈5.57 km For two people, the total line-of-sight distance is the sum of their individual horizons, assuming they are at the same elevation: dtotal=2×5.57≈11.14 km Geometric Horizon for Comparison: Without refraction, using the geometric horizon ( r=6371 km): d=2×6371×0.00183≈23.34426≈4.83 km dtotal=2×4.83≈9.66 km The 4/3 model extends the range, which is standard for VHF and UHF frequencies, as confirmed by radio horizon for UHF frequencies. Signal Strength Check: At 11.14 km, the path loss is calculated as: 32.44+20log⁡10(11.14)+20log⁡10(430) 20log⁡10(11.14)≈20×1.047≈20.94 , and 20log⁡10(430)≈52.6772 , so: Path Loss≈32.44+20.94+52.6772≈106.0572 dB Received power Pr=37−106.0572≈−69.0572 dBm , which is well above -120 dBm, so signal strength is not the limiting factor; the line of sight is. Given UHF frequencies’ line-of-sight nature, the communication distance is limited to approximately 11 km, aligning with the 4/3 earth radius model, which accounts for slight atmospheric refraction. Table: Summary of Calculations Scenario Frequency (MHz) Receiver Sensitivity (dBm) Limiting Factor Distance (km) Flat Earth 430 -120 Signal Strength ~3900 Real Earth 430 -120 Line of Sight (4/3) ~11 Additional Considerations Frequency Choice: The choice of 430 MHz is based on common UHF amateur radio frequencies, supported by 5-watt UHF radio details. Receiver Sensitivity: Confirmed through searches that -120 dBm is typical for UHF radios, ensuring the calculation’s validity UHF radio sensitivity. Curvature Impact: The significant drop from 3900 km to 11 km highlights how earth’s curvature restricts UHF radio range, which is surprising for laymen expecting longer ranges. This analysis ensures all details from the problem are addressed, providing a complete and self-contained response.

Assuming unity antennas, 2 HTs at 5W, and a received signal of -110dbm, that appears to be free loss in the range of 455km (283 miles) theoretically. Counting curvature of the earth, and using simplified equations for RF line of site from the NOFIG manual, you are just shy of 7 miles, this ignores wattage as a factor. This is all without any obstructions, like the middle of the desert. Outside factors really chop into those theoretical numbers.

For the first situation it depends on the sensitivity of the receivers and the gain and pattern of the antennas, but with Yagi antennas you might easily get a couple hundred miles. With our earth’s curvature it’s down to about 15% farther away than the optical horizon.

Years ago this guy was running a mobile HAM radio setup on his trike and putting videos on youtube. I emailed him recently and he no longer has the trike but is still on HAM radio regularly. https://www.youtube.com/@K6BBQsHamShack/videos

It also helps if you read what he posted: Stop being a douche, Devin.

I used to feel that way but I gradually realized that it’s not up to me. It is a hobby for many. Just like Citizen Band many people use GMRS as a way to chat with people who they might not know.

Thank you, I had to download the manual the one in the box was in another language.. fixed,,, and i greatly appreciate your help.

I used to come here for information, now I come here for entertainment.

Hey Guru's I'm currently in Cashiers, NC listening to gmrs channel 17 and am picking up chatter from Atlanta, GA. I don't understand how as I had received permission from repeaters in my area of Walhalla, SC trying to bridge the gap between the two but am unable to. How are they getting this far? is it a club? The only way I've been able to connect from Cashiers to Walhalla is thru Business band repeaters on 461.7250 . I gotta know how they are making the distance!

N.L.G.M.R.S > UHF2 NEW REPEATER IN THE NEW LONDON COUNTY.THE NEW MOTOROTA CDR500 IS BEEN PUT IN SERVICE FOR ALL GMRS USERS FOR COMMUNITY COMMUNICATION IN THE NEW LONDON AREA , SUBURBAN AND RURAL LOCATION AND SURROUNDING NEAR TOWNS AS WELL ALL EMERGENCY TRAFFIC IN THE AREA AND TRAVELERS. AGAIN WELCOME ALL USERS AND USE IT AS OFTEN YOU LIKE. REPEATER : MOTOROLA CDR500 DUPLEXER : 6 CAVITY ANTENNA : TRAM 1486 6Db GAIN POWER : 45 WATTS COVERAGE : 15 MILES

Are you trying to transmit on GMRS or ham frequencies? If you are certain it’s not user error send it in. If you are not certain enough to send it in then don’t take it personally if they ask you questions meant to determine whether it is user error. Probably the vast majority of problems they see are.

I love Midland radios especially the mobil units, because i like the simplicity of the microphone being able to control everything easily and this is nice while driving and off roading. Plus I feel that my midland radios have way more range than other 50w radios. I can reach repeaters and handheld radios way further out then friends that have btech or the radioditty radios. I have never compared them to the KG1000.

There is a forum for bicycle ham radio operators. You may get some info there. http://bmha-hams.org And here: https://groups.io/g/BicycleMobileHams I also saw this page. https://hackaday.com/2024/07/08/going-ham-mobile-on-a-bicycle/

The General Mobile Radio Service wasn't intended as a hobby, such as the Amateur Radio Service. Of course, the Citizen Band Radio Service wasn't intended as a hobby, but unlike FRS / GMRS, CB Radio became a social media outlet. Yes, you can find GMRS Radio Clubs, but they're not going to as popular as Amateur Radio Clubs. Then again, you don't see much CB Radio Clubs anymore like back in the 1960s and 1970s. I'm sure you'll find similar forums about the Multi Use Radio Service. Of course, with only 5 channels, I doubt there are any MURS Radios Clubs forming.

I have a GM30 so after reading your post I connected it to my Windows 11 PC using the USB cable I got from Radioddity when I bought it. Only way I could get the "PROGRAMMING..." message on the GM-30 is by successfully initiating an up or download using the Programming Software (Version 1.05). The only way I could simulate the actual problem you are seeing, the screen to go blank after the "PROGRAMMING..." message is displayed, is to unplug the USB-A cable while up or downloading. So it seems the Programming Software is communicating with the GM-30 via Programming cable, but something is interrupting the process only after it is initiated. Maybe a conflicting program on the PC or intermittent connection? This is probably irrelevant, but I played around with trying each of my PC 4 USB ports with the Programming Software and got it to fail, but not in the way you describe. After plugging the Radioddity programming cable to the PC & GM30 I brought up the GM-30 GMRS Programming software, turned on the GM-30 and attempted a download to the PC. It failed, so I checked to see which COM port showed available and found that all COM PORTS showed up as grayed-out indicating no port was available. I repeated the process after moving the PC end of the programming cable to another of the PC's 4 USB-A ports. This time when I checked the Programming Software it showed the COM6 was highlighted in bold characters indicating it was available! I attempted to another download and it was a success. Checking the other two of the PC's USB-A ports, one couldn't be seen by the Programming Software and they other was see erroneously as COM6 and didn't work.

Does the radio CPS allow you to set a baud rate? I do not see any setting that allows shifting / selecting baud rate. One sure way to identify the correct port is to unplug the usb cable at the computer end while watching in Device Manager to see which com port disappears. Went at it a little differently - opened Device Mgr. (cable not plugged in) - both com ports greyed out. Plugged in cable - com port 3 lights up - checked CPS, com port 3 designated in port settings. Seems like the handshake between radio and the CPS is working as I can see a "program" icon on the radio screen when I initiate a "read" command from the CPS. Maybe time to chase this back through Radioddity.

I think we just had that conversation elsewhere......

Yeah - the -120 dBm of the assumed average receiver is the true limiting factor. Google up EME (earth moon earth) contests - people using the moon to bounce/reflect signals. I've heard of people making it with 2 watts or less, but they're jacking up the receivers with all types of high end pre-amps and using CW. Voice would be problematic. There are real world receivers out there in UHF radios (Think DMR Digital Vertex EVX & Moto XPR's) that will go down to -125 without spending too much money (and still have decent selectivity). Those radio on a chip direct conversion receivers all the CCR folks love have some wild receive sensitivity, but they're also about as selective as a drunken politician spending someone else's tax dollars. The original Apollo comm's with the moon were all UHF with Yagi antennas. People still heard "One giant step for mankind" although how clear it was is debatable. Then again, those Flat Earther's would point to the limitations of UHF radio signals as proof that the landing did not take place on the actual moon. AI makes my eyes hurt.

Yup. I used the HRO in Woodbridge, VA to make the decision on my first HF and they were super helpful. I had plans to ride out to the New Castle, DE store today, but cancelled because they are sold out of both radios I was considering (TS-590SG vs FTDX 10D (distant second choice)). Ended up ordering the TS-590SG from DXE this morning to replace my 11 year old TS-590S, mainly due to updated noise reduction and the ability to use with an SDR. @tweiss3 - I think I've seen you someplace before, LOL!

Device Manager indicates two comm ports - both of which I've used for these tests and the CPS seems to follow when I designate which comm port I've selected / connected the cable into. BTW these radios are brand new (to me) as is this attempted programming. They seem to work very well and, to this point, I'm pleased with them.

You bet. The current wording of 47 CFR 95.1761 does disallow gear usable in amateur radio service from being certified, so I agree it follows that 400-470 would be disqualified under the current state of affairs, though it appears the door is still open for the 450-490 or 450-512 radios to be dual certified (90/95E). Whether the manufacturers see it as worth spending the money on is the question, though based on what's available it seems like mostly not. I did a little digging in the prior version of the CFR (prior to the sections being shuffled in 2017 and GMRS was under 95a), and I'm not finding any similar wording disallowing overlapping between services. Really the only thing I found regarding certification pointed to the OET page, and referenced a list of certified transmitters that doesn't seem to exist anymore.

I can see it now, it'd be the equivalent of the old "Are you gonna buy that magazine sir, or just stand here in the store and read it?"

I would consider a 25% loss of towers in a hurricane pretty reliable. Definitely depends if you are in that cell area that went down or not though. I have a pole type tower near me and they were adding more antennas during a very windy period. I've never seen it sway so much. Felt bad for the guy up there working. It was probably 20ish winds with bigger gusts. I was surprised it was moving that much. I thought that movement would be at about 40mph.

Kinda surprised one needs a multiband transceiver on a bicycle in the first place. I was thinking an HT on a backpack with a handheld mic or vox setup.

The Part 95 certification combined with having the range to fully cover 70cm (as I had my eye toward my ham license at the time) was one of the big factors in choosing it And found the ID, it's K6610354640 It's not fully side by side, but there's a thread on reddit where a user tested power outputs of a few popular MARS-modded ham handhelds on GMRS; the FT5D was one that was noticeably down on power on GMRS.

Because that is apparently what "some people" do best - its like a hobby.

Thanks, all! TrikeRadio and GrouserPad had the correct advice. I did a hard reset and coverted it to GMRS node. 1. Turn it off. 2. Press the * key and PTT at the same time, then turn it on. 3. A menu comes up offering: 1. Ham, 2. GMRS, 3. Normal. 4. Press 2 to get GRMS. All set! Many thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Might as well join and take advantage of the nice distances the network offers. But you may actually get sick of the chatter. Sooner or later someone will drop a dime, rat out, the network operator to the FCC, who at sometime may or may not care. If anyone is left working at the FCC they might send out a strongly worded letter telling the network to stop linking. In the mean time enjoy!

Well, if you are afraid the eff sea sea is going to come pounding on your door because you have a non compliant radio that you are operating properly then by all means go ahead. Myself I'm not worrying about it at all. Not sure if their IDs are different between the radios. The one on the left is the GMRS version and the one on the right is the Ham version. They don't differentiate between the two.

In engineering we refer to Occam’s Razor. The simplest reason is usually right. I like the way you said it better.

In medicine, we have a saying, "When you hear hoofbeats on the prairie, think of horses, not zebras." which is a way of saying that common things happen more often than uncommon things. In radio, the most common cause of poor range is obstructions, and the way to defeat that is with elevation and a good antenna. There absolutely are people who work the repeater on the International Space Station with a 5 watt HT. The only real difference between them and the OP is what's between the two radios -- basically nothing in the case of the ISS. I'm a believer in approaching anything except an emergency in a stepwise fashion. That way, when you get it right, you'll know what made the difference. And, yes, I've been called a liar for saying that I can work a repeater 52 miles from my house with an 8 watt HT, but I have the advantage of highly favorable topography. Both the repeater and my home are the highest things for miles in that direction. I wouldn't say GMRS can't be a hobby. There are a couple of guys near me who frequently use Ch 19 to discuss their day and what's going on in their lives. They could easily use a phone, but to some of us, a radio is more fun. But, yes, in general, GMRS is a communication tool whereas amateur radio is much more focused on the equipment and how to get the most out of it.

and risk a hefty fine or jail time? It's your choice, but is it really worth it?! SOURCE: "some people" on this forum.

I'll add to the anecdotal Wouxon thread here. No PL issues with these Wouxon radios I've had, KG-UV3D bought new at the Dayton hamfest 12+ years ago. Charger base croaked after 5 years though. KG-805G bought new around 5 years ago, everything going great even with a cracked screen. KG-935G bought new around 2 years ago, no issues.

Yah.. Sorry.. I'm just learning all this socially ree-tarhd-ed stuff.

Dude... I have no idea how you would even do what you wrote. That doesn't make sense. I performed a 12 dB SINAD sensitivity test using a signal generator, testing at 462.55 MHz and 462.725 MHz on both radios. I also performed SQ4 opening and closing tests. The Midland SQ4 opening was -120.7 and closing was -124.4, but the Yaesu SQ4 was at -116.7/-121.

First this is a CCR. Deal with it. Second this is a HAM Radio.