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I was checking repeaters today to see which ones I could hit and got into a repeater net gathering. The controller was a nice guy and very welcoming. There was a few of us on and we played a game of "Appliance Operator or HAM?" where we were given a scenario and ask if it was something an Appliance Operator would do or a HAM. Anyway, that was my first contact on HAM and it was fun. Just wanted to share with ya'll.

I was in our electronics lab once working on a project. Some mention was made about drunks on the street. I referred to them as "Stumble Bums." Well I got one of those "WTF is that" looks. Makes you feel old.

The only factual reference for the GMRS rules is the government rules: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95?toc=1

Somebody get me a cheeseburger!”

I wasn’t certain if the waivers/conditions appeared on the reference copies the same as the official copy so I went through the pain of downloading an official copy. It no longer appears there either.

My first thought it's just an inefficient government system. They are too lazy to go back and notify older licensees of an update.

I really think that the FCC screwed the pooch on this. They should have made some sort of announcement, or better yet sent an email to affected licensees.

Okay... really quick... the short answer is those people on the net are incorrect. You can use all of the GMRS channels anywhere in the US. Details without getting too dorky... what used to limit us was a combination of FCC rules and a US/Canada treaty. The treaty is called "Agreement Between the Government of the United States of America and the Government of Canada Concerning the Coordination and Use of Radio Frequencies Above Thirty Megacycles per Second, with Annexes" also known as the "Above 30 MHz Agreement". A new agreement that was signed in 2021 supersedes that agreement. The new document is called "General coordination agreement between Canada and the United States of America on the use of the radio frequency spectrum by terrestrial radiocommunication stations and earth stations." This document discontinued the parts first treaty I mentioned, that impacted GMRS. Now, that only relates to the Treaty / Agreement. Under FCC rules, the restriction was also lifted. The older rule was under "§ 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification" (e). However, § 95.1761(e) now has new text that is completely unrelated. Also, Line A is not referenced anywhere in the Personal Radio Service general rules, nor in the GMRS specific rules. The original text from the FCC (from the wayback machine), again no longer valid, is noted below. § 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification (e) GMRS transmitters intended for use north of Line A or east of Line C* must not be capable of transmitting on channels 462.650 MHz or 462.700 MHz (GMRS Channels 19 and 21), unless such operation is specifically authorized by the Commission pursuant to an application showing that harmful interference to Canadian stations is unlikely.*

wait tell you find pet skunk in your kids bedroom

Sitting downtown in a railway station

Sweet Jesus ...

Hello All! New to GMRS and having a blast learning and getting gear together. I recently did a install on Gen 3 Tacoma and I am getting a SWR of 1.75. Below is my build. Looking for some suggestions on how to get the SWR a bit lower, or being what it is, maybe just accept the 1.75 and call it good. Appreciate all suggestions! Equipment Utilized: Btech GMRS50-Pro - https://baofengtech.com/product/gmrs-50pro/ Midland MXTA24 NMO - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0842B1WFS MIdland MXTA26 Antenna - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084BPXNC5 Ditch Light Bracket - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FG7P4DWY With a 3/8" Stainless Steel washer for fitment. Surcom Sw-102S - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M7QPXEY NMO Mount to Ditch bracket. Recognize the antenna is not perfectly straight up and is at an angle, I'll try to figure out how to get this mount more straight up, but the way my ditch light bracket is, this may not be easily achievable. I then ran it across the engine bay and then into the cabin through a gromet. Both the power and NMO cable were tucked under panels. I then created a mount for the BTECH GMRS50-PRO and connected everything behind the drivers side backseat storage. Current readings on meter. Once BTECH releases their Mic extension, i will run the mic extension wire from the back panel to the front drivers seat, so i can control the whole radio via the BTECH mic remote. Thanks!

Is there any way this site's repeater section (not forum) can allow listing neighborhood watch simplex frequencies? I don't have any repeaters and never expect to. Us non-repeater owners might be better able to build a community of users if there was a way to be listed where people will be looking. The same function that does repeater access requests could be relabelled Contact (or something similar). [I'm sure I'll get attacked for even suggesting it, but y'all haven't run me off yet.]

Yup, this.

I checked into Clubs when you suggested it before. My impression without doing it, just viewing them, is it won't work well. From what I can tell, most people only use the repeater lookup, not the forum or clubs. I know from the forum, very few locals are active here (can't tell who is lurking).

Maybe you could suggest either tech questions to add to the General and Amateur Extra exams or possibly some hands on stuff that could be tested. Personally I enjoy building, troubleshooting, and fixing things but I know that most people don’t anymore.

Start a club and publish the details in the club information.

Because it's fun. I haven't soldered in many years. Currently building a Cricket 20 and really enjoying it. Planning on buying a QCX-mini real soon.

As I recall, @OffRoaderXdeclared Channel 19 as the GMRS National Calling Channel and the Feds backed down!

Not at all. I figured we are just having a conversation and sharing information. I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I think he is just trying to demonstrate how bad information is out in the world and how confusing it can be trying to figure it out for many people. I took it as that is really the topic. I could be wrong, though.

The funny part is, I'm a bit of a dork when it comes to this stuff, so I have read it all to see how it impacts my Amateur license use and my GMRS license use. There is nothing in our agreements or treaties with Canada or Mexico that encompasses GMRS frequencies. That said, I agree with the general sentiment. People shouldn't have to be a legal scholar (or try to think like one) and willing to spend several hours or even days trying to research this stuff, just to talk to their family or friends on a $10 radio they bought at Walmart or on Amazon. The whole concept is asinine. The two nations should just coordinate their frequency use and keep it simple for their citizens.

Not to worry, I have a plan on how to handle this.

People treating AI slop and hallucinations as a source for factual information is....concerning.

That was the point I was trying to make is that after reviewing those old codes that AI cited about Line A, the new codes said nothing of Line A except for § 95.309 (see below) which changed its text. AI also claims the GCA agreement doesn't supersede the Above 30MHz agreement therefore both agreement are still in act. But if that's correct, that would mean that the FCC took out all the text from part 95 regarding Line A and hid it in those agreements I can't find nor should have to find. 95.309 (b) is the only code I see that pertains but does a GMRS user need to read through agreements and treaties to figure it all out? § 95.309 Coordination procedures and other restrictions for operation in certain locations. The operator of a Personal Radio Service station may be required to coordinate operation in advance and/or may be subject to operating restrictions if the station is to be operated in certain locations, described in the following paragraphs in this section. (b) Near a U.S. border or in an area that is or may be subject to an international treaty or agreement. Treaties and agreements may be viewed or downloaded from the FCC Web site: http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sand/agree/.

I use it as a derogatory pejorative and mean it. I think most hams now are appliance operators that DO NOT know how radios and antennas work. Those who really know are a shrinking minority.

Back in the day you had to build a lot of stuff to be an Amateur Radio Operator. Today the market is flooded with stuff so there's no longer a need to build stuff but you still need to know how to program it and what equipment is good and what's not so good. As someone with an Electronic Technician Degree from DeVry(class of '83, LOL) I know how to build stuff If I needed too but why. I just spend a few bucks and get something that works right out of the box. No need to fiddle with things.

My wife is very, how shall I put this.................Frugal. I had to practically twist her arm a few years ago to spend $50 bucks on a pair of shows for work. She also knows are budget and all the bills/credit cards we need to pay off so what I get out of my Crypto with maybe a few bucks extra is going to be it. I'm actually looking at a good VHF/UHF antenna that I can put on a Tripod and adapt to my HT to improve the range. Plus, I can use the antenna/tripod if I want to do POTA.

@Northcutt114 I love your avatar.

I'm sure there are sad hams that use the term "appliance operator" in a derogatory way but every time I've heard it so far has been a ham referring to himself.

Airwaves are free but repeaters are not. Someone spent resources putting that system together.

Thanks. I just tried it. downloaded a reference copy. Nothing is listed under Waivers/Conditions. Looks like I'll have to make a few code plug edit changes for my radios. Oh-well, more busy work.

Go to your account at the FCC and download a current version of your license. When I did that a few months ago the Line A restriction no longer appeared.

In the Waiver/Conditions it says: NONE, in all capital letters. Towards the bottom, I suppose to keep me confused, it has a box with this written in it... Conditions: Pursuant to §309(h) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. §309(h), this license is subject to the following conditions: This license shall not vest in the licensee any right to operate the station nor any right in the use of the frequencies designated in the license beyond the term thereof nor in any other manner than authorized herein. Neither the license nor the right granted thereunder shall be assigned or otherwise transferred in violation of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. See 47 U.S.C. § 310(d). This license is subject in terms to the right of use or control conferred by §706 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. See 47 U.S.C. §606. That does not look like NONE. Any lawyers out there?

Assuming you mean receiving on HF, I've not seen that the Radtel-880 can TX on 10m at all. The Quansheng can RX on 10m SSB, but needs some surgery to be be able to TX other than FM (as seen on YootOob), and your license class does not have FM privileges on 10m. That being said, there are many Handheld receivers that can pick up the SW bands out there in Used Land. But not many that would allow you to transmit on 10m. I'm with the crowd, work on your operating skills on V/UHF and save up for a decent HF/6m or "shack in the box type rig. One I'm interested in after seeing Salty Walt (W4OGO on YooToob) reviewing it it the Guohetec (sp?) PMR-171. Neat 20 w hf/vhf/uhf battery powered rig with a sub $700 price tag. I get economics. When I first was getting on 10m in 96 as a Tech+ license holder, that $270 for a Realistic HTX-100 was a big budget hit what with 2 youngins and all. Still have that rig and occasionally drag it out and blow the dust off it to see if the Magic Smoke is still there (it is). For decent HF listening, a good portable SW radio will do you better than an HT. Decent new and used ones around that $100 mark.

That's cool that you had a fun experience on that net. I love that radio can bring people together for fun - people who would otherwise never meet. And just for the record I do not (yet?) have a "HAM" license... before I say this... I understand the meaning of the term "Appliance Operator" - someone who knows how to use their radio but does not know how to build, fix or explain the inner workings of radio... fine but I wonder if you can really say that someone licensed with an Amateur Radio License is either an Appliance Operator or a HAM. it sounds like "yeah you have an Amateur Radio License but ... you are not really a HAM. which also feels very "Sad ham" to me. But that is just me maybe.

I used this stuff on top of the self sealing tape https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZMZV4K1?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1&th=1

Make sure they do a good job of waterproofing the connections.

Thanks again guys for all of your help! I got it from Buy Two Way Radios.com. Messi & Paoloni Hyperflex 10 Premium .400" Pre-assembled Coax - UHF Male (PL259) Connectors Cable Length 50 ft. for $113.00 with shipping. Now I just got to find some one to go back up my tower..

Examples? Many Amateur Operators are what can be called "Appliance Operators" They know how things work, especially radios, but not why they work. Enjoy the world of Amateur Radio, it's been a fun ride for me since '92 although my work with two way radios goes back into the mid 70's. Every contact you make can bring you new things!

In my mind I was thinking of those rolls of LEDs that you lay out. In reality he probably meant a shop light style fixture with LED lights in it which would mean the driver is surrounded by metal already. The cheap power supplies that drive LEDs are usually noisy and get pretty hot when driven to max. Whenever I build with them I like to make sure there's a few amps in reserve basically to keep the driver from putting out max current keeping it cool and it's life longer. Putting it in a metal container might make the heating worse.

Thanks so much! Ordering it now.

I've been messaging with Eddie for the last couple of days on this site. I had no idea a repeater was being planned. A buddy of mine called me up and let me know about it. I haven't really used it yet, but it sounds pretty good. At 1.5 miles away, you could work it with 1/4 watt. LOL

I've been listening to Ed(?) test the repeater over the last 2 weeks. His transmissions are pegging my meter (I'm only 1.5 miles from the repeater ). He published the repeater to the myGMRS database: https://mygmrs.com/repeater/10670

Hey, Peter! Great questions. BTW... if you hear us chatting, you are always welcome to join in! I appreciate the interest. We talked about it a little at our last get-together, but just touched on it. So, I'm happy to give more details. I am a volunteer radio operator with the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES). I serve on a few teams supporting DHS/FEMA, US Marine Corps Quantico (MCCS/MCM), Loudoun County, Prince William County and the Virginia state EOC in Richmond. ARES is a nation-wide group attached to the American Radio Radio League. Our organization has formal MOUs with local, state and federal agencies across the nation. Our team provides a full spectrum of auxiliary (and on occasion, primary) communications support for the aforementioned agencies. That would include, but not limited to, voice traffic, independent email services, wireless LAN/WAN both in an affected area and relayed outside the impact zone, video, GPS and signal tracking, and much, much more. We have had great success in drills and real-world service for more decades than I have been alive, and I am happy to be apart of the organization. These relationships have afforded our teams some special privileges in the radio world. Hospitals, government agencies, and private business all appreciate the services we provide to the community, and to help us provide the best possible services, these agencies/businesses have allowed our groups to install VHF and UHF repeaters on there buildings, commercial radio towers, and on high-elevation properties. We even have repeaters and towers installed in national parks for areas known to frequently need our support. I mention all of this because it is relevant to what is happening with the proposed GMRS repeater. The Prince William County government is allowing us to install a new amateur radio VHF and UHF repeater on a county radio tower. The intent is to have the amateur radio equipment available to all licensed amateurs, while ensuring priority use for ARES supporting the county, state and federal government. Since we are going to have both a VHF and a UHF antenna, we figured we would gang a GMRS repeater on the UHF antenna, having it support both systems. I proposed the use of the GMRS repeater to the county under the same assumptions as the amateur radio repeaters... they will be open to all licensed users, with the county and other served agencies traffic taking priority during drills and emergencies, and the county EC agreed. Keep in mind, we are in the early stages of planning. We need to design the system, acquire hardware, and coordinate frequency use. What we are planning is subject to change... but the proposed details are as fallows. The availability date is currently TBD. As mentioned, we are still gathering parts and the facility is currently in the end stages of renovations. We cannot build until construction is complete. The tower is in the south-eastern part of Prince William County. The base of the tower is about 155 feet above average terrain. The arm the antennas will be on is about 300 feet above ground. We are going to use high-gain folded dipole antennas for all repeaters. We are planning on legal limit for the power output on GMRS (and 100w for the amateur repeaters). The channel is TBD, pending coordination. This will be a publicly accessible repeater, open to all licensed operators. Again, if the repeater is needed for emergency use, we will terminate public access until the emergency need is over. We hope that amateur gear will be sufficient so local families/residents can use the GMRS repeater in a local communications outage. We have not settled on a tone yet, but it will be CTCSS. We will ask local users to use whatever the primary tone we select for day-to-day use, but we will also have 141.3 for emergency/traveler use. The coverage area is theoretical at this point, but below is a projected coverage map showing 99.9% reliability. As we drop down to 70% reliability, the coverage increases dramatically.

In 1970 my mom thought One Toke Over The Line by Brewer & Shipley was a church song (we didn't go to church). While I didn't partake back then, and still don't, I had to explain it to her. I really thought she was joking. She was not.

That's a nice neat installation! I like it when people post stuff like this. Good material to reference for ideas.

Now that I have my HAM Tech Lic. I'm thinking of 6M and maybe 10M to start with. I'll DMR later if I feel the need but thanks for all in info and posts here guys.

The FCC just recently made it officially legal on 11M. I guess it's popularity all depends on equipment availability and any real world advantage it might have over AM/SSB. Some people have no interest in digital on GMRS. That's OK. However there are apparently enough who do that a few threads have commented about the proliferation of digital voice signals in some areas, and it's not even legal! Oh well. The point of digital voice is the ability to have reasonably clear communications out to nearly the limit of the traditional FM UHF signal range. FM can get really ratty and noise polluted at extended ranges. One other reason to use it the digital signals, using the right mode, can fit between the main FM repeater channels with the likely hood of not interfering at higher power levels, unlike the narrow band FM currently allowed at 0.5 watts. In areas with substantial GMRS usage this opens up the service for much better coverage without begging the FCC for more spectrum we're very unlikely to get. GMRS Digital Voice - 20250723.pdf

The manufactures of the commercial radios are rather secretive about their bug fixes. The bugs that got fixed are likely only available to dealers and service centers, but the rest of use are left in the dark. I've attached one for the last DMR firmware update I have saved for my NX-1200/1300 radios. It doesn't say much. I'm sure various bugs got fixed they just won't disclose. You want to see why updating firmware is required? Look at the horror show for the D878UV radios. Read the change logs. They can't simply just FIX what they have, but then add features while managing to fuck up other shit that use to work. Look at how many updates they've issued. That's been my experience for the past number of years having to deal with this Chinese radio. This is the worse radio I own for radio firmware and radio programming software reliability. http://www.wouxun.us/category.php?category_id=93 Their new D168UV seems to be following the same path. It was only released for sale a few months ago. https://www.wouxun.us/category.php?category_id=108 NX-1200D, NX-1200DV, NX-1300D, NX-1300DU, NX-1200A, NX-1200AV, NX-1300A, NX-1300AU DMR.rtf