GMRwhat?

[WRUU653]

36 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I think that this feels like a top down rather than groundswell movement, although I don’t think that’s what @SeaScholar intended.  “We have formed a club for all of you who are interested,” doesn’t feel quite as inviting as starting a topic that says “Would there be any value to starting a national organization?  If so, what would we hope to achieve?  What benefits would you like to receive.” and then following the topic to its logical conclusion.

I think the idea of a national organization might have value if there’s a common interest, but since GMRS is basically more of a communication utility while engaging in other activities, rather than the activity itself, I’m not sure there’s enough common interest.  The MyGMRS site might be the closest thing to a national organization that many of us wish to devote time to, but I’ll watch and see how the GMRSUS goes. I wish you success and depending of how it evolves I might even join.

Well said as always Steve. 

[SeaScholar]

38 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I think that this feels like a top down rather than groundswell movement, although I don’t think that’s what @SeaScholar intended.

It did not start as a top down, and I don't see it that way still. I pretty much left it open. However, I did intentionally include the thought of "hey here is some national level ideas" for the GOTA program idea. Perhaps the club and the GOTA program should have been posted separately some how. I'll have to consider it. 

38 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

“We have formed a club for all of you who are interested,” doesn’t feel quite as inviting as starting a topic that says “Would there be any value to starting a national organization?  If so, what would we hope to achieve?  What benefits would you like to receive.” and then following the topic to its logical conclusion.

As I said to UncleYoda, I didn't see anywhere that said I had to ask permission to start a club or what it's purpose would be for. and I do say that with all due respect. Please don't take that as me being dismissive or come off as rude.

38 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I think the idea of a national organization might have value if there’s a common interest, but since GMRS is basically more of a communication utility while engaging in other activities, rather than the activity itself, I’m not sure there’s enough common interest. 

There was enough interest in the group of people I spoke too long before I posted it on here. We shall see if anyone is interested. If not, then perhaps we'll all get lucky and it will fade away like a bad dream. haha.

39 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

The MyGMRS site might be the closest thing to a national organization that many of us wish to devote time to, but I’ll watch and see how the GMRSUS goes. I wish you success and depending of how it evolves I might even join.

I agree, and thats unfortunate that this site is the only one. GMRS needs much more representation from the dedicated GMRS users. I have respect for HAM operators, but that is a WHOLE different purpose and use cases. 

Thank you for all of your thoughts, opinions, and considerations.   We shall see how it goes.

[SeaScholar]

39 minutes ago, GreggInFL said:

GMRS is local, not national. There are no operating synergies.

Absolutely correct. So that means there is room for ideas from other places. That is probably also why there is such lack of support for GMRS outside of a scattering of HAM operators who casually play around with GMRS.

[GreggInFL]

26 minutes ago, SeaScholar said:

Absolutely correct. So that means there is room for ideas from other places.

Fine, so bring those ideas here.

[marcspaz]

3 hours ago, SeaScholar said:

Is this a "pay-to-play" scheme? The discussion of a modest membership fee is about sustainability for a non-profit organization. Any funds collected would go directly toward operational costs like hosting a website, developing training materials, and covering insurance for events. The goal is to provide tangible value to members, not to create a barrier. We are still working on the details, but the focus is on keeping it accessible for everyone.

 

Eh... I do all of this for free for 3 different groups... we have people who volunteer time and I pay for all of our digital footprint. Unlimited storage, unlimited throughput, unlimited email accounts and email storage for $150 per year. Few bucks per registered URL / Domain. I spend more for dinner for my family one night out at a restaurant than for our internet footprint for a year.  Having donation options would be one thing, but there is zero chance you're convincing me that you need to collect a membership fee to cover costs, imho

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, SeaScholar said:

But, my guess that doesn't mean much to a simple "Guy doesn’t even have a repeater, only had his license for a month" consideration.

 

Again, just my personal opinion, what you used to do for a living has nothing to do with membership value. With the exception of the privilege of saying they are a member, what does the organization bring to the table, that we cannot otherwise get for free somewhere else? 

[WRYZ926]

Right or wrong, here is my take on national organizations. It is easy for them to lose their way once they get to a certain size/membership level. Two prime examples are: the NRA and the ARRL.

I know my local amateur club is a non profit and they ask for a yearly $20 membership fee. The paid membership gives one voting rights in what the group does. Outside of voting rights, one can still use the repeaters and participate in meetings and other activities without paying any dues.

Could GMRS benefit from a national group that lobbies Washington for us? Yes we could. But it has to be done right with plenty of checks and balances so it doesn't end up like the NRA or ARRL.

[Davichko5650]

8 hours ago, WRTC928 said:

 I just don't envision 100,000 GMRS licensees voluntarily yielding that sort of authority to some upstart organization.

Much less coughing up $$$ a year for a magazine, assuming they'll have one. I mean no self-respecting Nation Organization for GMRS Radio (subtle dig at Arrrrl) would not have a glossy, advert filled Magazine, would they?

I can count on 1 hand for the most part, the number of people I talk to on GMRS, and we're all local to each other, no need for a nationwide group for us.

[AdmiralCochrane]

5 hours ago, GreggInFL said:

GMRS is local, not national. There are no operating synergies.

I agree. Don't confuse GMRS with DMR

[ChaosVortex]

I am going to toss my low watt transmission into the fray here.

I have read what was said here about this GRMSU group plan, and I for one cannot really get behind the idea due to the conflicting information that was presented as there are plenty of red flags going up. The reason being and I am sure it is not the group owners intention however the whole thing comes off as a thinly disguised attempt to control the masses on what radios they use, how they use the frequencies, etc.

The reason why I say I personally have read flags is due to either the rather ambiguous statements, which you will not clarify or the multitude of contradictory statements. I will now take the time to demonstrate what I mean:

1) "GMRUS was created to be a community-focused advocacy and education group"

My question becomes (as will all "advocacy and education" groups) what are your plans should questions, concerns or complaints arise from those within or even about your group? Do you have plans for an oversight committee or shall you have the owner have final say?

What are your contents of infractions? How do you plan to carry out disciplinary actions to those incurring those infractions? How do you plan to make those incurring infractions public? Falsely flagging John Doe's GMRS' license because he said something you do not like, or using a radio you do not like is not going to cut it.

2) "to create a supportive and educational community for GMRS and education groups and FRS users, empowering them with the knowledge and skills to effectively use these services."

I am rather confused. How can you say the above, then in the very next sentence state "growing community of radio users who are drawn to the simplicity and accessibility of GMRS and FRS". So which statement is true? Does GMRS have a simplicity and accessibility, where anyone can gain a free FRN, then pay $35 (current year prices), grab a radio and go? Or is GMRS something that needs to be studied for and then taught (by you of course)? I cannot help but get the impression you want to turn GMRS into other radio services, which by your own words do indeed cement that impression.

3) "We are not seeking any authority over the service"

This is yet another conflicting statement. You claim you are not seeking authority over the service then you state (and I quote): "Our core mission is the exact opposite. We believe that education is the best tool to combat misuse of the airwaves. By providing accessible training on proper radio etiquette, programming, and emergency protocols, we aim to elevate the standard of operation and make the GMRS experience better for everyone. An educated operator is a responsible operator". Followed by "a modest membership fee is about sustainability for a non-profit organization. Any funds collected would go directly toward operational costs like hosting a website, developing training materials, and covering insurance for events"

These very statements are indeed seeing yourself trying to seek authority over the service. 

4) "We have immense respect for the HAM community, but we also recognize that GMRS serves a considerably different and equally valid purpose"

Another contradictory statement. If GMRS was its own entity then why even mention you want the following: training workshops, "Elmer" mentorship for licensing, and community events? You are in truth wanting to turn GMRS into ham radio which I can only imagine is solely based on the fact that GMRS operates in the expanded 70CM Band (462 MHz to 467 MHz).

At the end of the day GMRS stands for "General Mobile Radio Service". It does not stand for "Professional Amateur like Radio". What I mean in the situation where I walk down from our house to the lake with my radio on channel 15 (462.55 MHz) and my wife wants to speak to me, we can have a natural conversation, where we are sarcastic or joke with each other. If I happen to fart sounding like the inception sound effect we can laugh about it. There is none of the pomp and circumstance like Ham Radio such as "N0NYA, K3TTY -- John Doe what are the atmospheric conditions like today? (inception sound effect fart heard at the house), sounds like bad weather, should we activate an ARES net?"

There are many more statements you have made that I would love to make a comment on, however that would come off as a personal attack, and I would much rather focus on the core of what was said. Granted you can state you should be allowed to have your group, even claim others must see the merit it brings, however you should allow others to be wary, and even either question or want no part of your trying to organize some form of a leading authority for taking that is something inclusionary of all into something exclusionary to only those you deem worthy of using.

PS: I have held a Amateur Radio license far longer than I care to admit, and I understand far more than I let on. I do not wave it in people's faces due to the fact that I simply do not care how people behave when it has zero impact on my or my family's lives. That said and to be contradictory myself; I will speak up when I see any form of gatekeeping taking place into a hobby I am passionate about.

[Blaise]

22 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

I'm already contacting people and they're of course ignoring me.  Would they listen to an organization?

I mean, given how aggressive and rude all your posts *here* are, I assume they ignore you because they want nothing to do with you.  Maybe someone with manners and a good attitude would do better?  I'm sure they couldn't do worse...

[UncleYoda]

12 hours ago, ChaosVortex said:

there are plenty of red flags going up.

Welcome to the forum.  Yes, if you didn't see/feel those red flags, you would be like the majority of the public.

I believe we are mostly thinking alike but I do want to make a couple of points.

GMRS is already being turned into ham, with check-in nets and bragging about how far away they are using an antenna in a tree, etc.  There is currently nothing being done and no way available to us to correct this.

The group's wording emphasizes education.  That might help people that don't know how to program and use their radios.  But to put it simply, that won't work for the biggest problems.  The regs are freely available to read (carefully to get the meaning).  However, the guys (and some gals I guess) who are trying to use it like ham don't care because they can get away with doing what they want.  I don't see anything in this group's plans that will fix that.  Only FCC can punish rule breakers and they (FCC) are aren't even trying.

SeaScholar says this is a club and he didn't need permission or even discussion to start it.  Well, it isn't just a club in the normal sense.  It's a national organization that wants at least influence, if not control, over the service*.  (If there's no control/authority, then where is any real value?)  With how other national organizations have behaved, it is appropriate for us to be concerned over any such "club".  Even though I am not going to join, it definitely could affect my use of the service.  And my 35 bucks got me the same license he or anyone else has.  So, as was my first reaction, I still feel who put him in charge.

*I don't like calling it a hobby, it can be if you make it that, but it's foremost a form of communication used like a tool.  And to me, that applies to ham too, despite the guys who make using it a hobby.

[Blaise]

20 hours ago, SeaScholar said:

That is probably also why there is such lack of support for GMRS outside of a scattering of HAM operators who casually play around with GMRS.

I don't follow.  As far as I can tell, the vast majority of GMRS users *aren't* hams...

[SteveShannon]

21 hours ago, SeaScholar said:

agree, and thats unfortunate that this site is the only one. GMRS needs much more representation from the dedicated GMRS users. I have respect for HAM operators, but that is a WHOLE different purpose and use cases. 

In my experience, the purpose and use cases for 2 meter/70 cm is exactly the same as GMRS, except that with GMRS the entire extended family can talk and no technician test is involved.  People use handheld radios to talk to each other, sometimes while doing something else.

[ChaosVortex]

6 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Welcome to the forum.  Yes, if you didn't see/feel those red flags, you would be like the majority of the public. I believe we are mostly thinking alike but I do want to make a couple of points.

We might think the same, however our approaches are vastly different. I do not believe in charging into a conversation then act like my Dipole is the largest in the room, and there is more then enough room to have people disagree with me. I find people are more open to talking with honey, not talking with vinager.

10 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

GMRS is already being turned into ham, with check-in nets and bragging about how far away they are using an antenna in a tree, etc.  There is currently nothing being done and no way available to us to correct this.

Well this is where I will disagree on your opinion, solely based on if the check-in net is tolerant to people just learning how it is done, then this could be a secondary tool in the tool box for when a natural disaster occurs. As I wear three hats (CB'er since the 90's, GMRS, and Amateur Radio) I am very interested to know what antenna's are being used, and how far propagation wise one could reach.

16 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

However, the guys (and some gals I guess) who are trying to use it like ham don't care because they can get away with doing what they want.

Can you please specify "trying to use it like ham" for me. There is a multitude of ways I can take this, however I want to be clear in how you meant it. 

I will state a overall impression which is you are stating the GMRUS is trying to be authoritative, yet it appears you are doing the same. Why become that which you have issues with?

[MarkInTampa]

19 minutes ago, Blaise said:

I don't follow.  As far as I can tell, the vast majority of GMRS users *aren't* hams...

I figured I'd do a quick check on that for giggles. I looked up the last 10 GMRS licenses issued in my city and checked if the FRN also had a ham license. 4 were dual licensed and 6 were GMRS only. Your results may vary.

[SteveShannon]

17 minutes ago, MarkInTampa said:

I figured I'd do a quick check on that for giggles. I looked up the last 10 GMRS licenses issued in my city and checked if the FRN also had a ham license. 4 were dual licensed and 6 were GMRS only. Your results may vary.

Good job.  FYI, there’s an easier way.  This app does that for you.  Enter a call sign for either service and it will tell you:

https://gmrs.app/

[MarkInTampa]

1 minute ago, SteveShannon said:

Good job.  FYI, there’s an easier way.  This app does that for you.  Enter a call sign for either service and it will tell you:

https://gmrs.app/

I've got that site bookmarked, didn't even think about using it for some reason. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[SteveShannon]

Just now, MarkInTampa said:

I've got that site bookmarked, didn't even think about using it for some reason. Thanks for the reminder!

 

I have it always on a tab. I use it frequently. Even if the person I’m looking up isn’t in both services it’s a quick lookup like QRZ.

[UncleYoda]

1 hour ago, ChaosVortex said:

I do not believe in charging into a conversation

I don't know what you're referring to.  I started this thread.  And I only comment on the topics that interest me.

Quote

I find people are more open to talking with honey

I respond to hostility with the same. (You don't see all the crap that I ignore.)  Based on how things have gone on this forum, I will never go back to being meek and mild, sugar and spice.  It's either fight back or be scared off.  I'm a dyed in the wool Confederate - we don't run from a fight.   But none of this is relevant anyway.

Quote

if the check-in net is tolerant to people just learning how it is done, then this could be a secondary tool in the tool box for when a natural disaster occurs.

Yes, if the nets were local, and limited to mobile and handheld only as the regs require, then I would agree.  What is happening around here is repeaters have been put up on the same mountains where ham repeaters are, with similar wide coverage areas.  And people are checking in from base stations 50-100 miles away and bragging about it.

Quote

As I wear three hats (CB'er since the 90's, GMRS, and Amateur Radio) I am very interested to know what antenna's are being used, and how far propagation wise one could reach.

GMRS is intended for local, short range comms. per FCC.

Quote

Can you please specify "trying to use it like ham" for me. There is a multitude of ways I can take this, however I want to be clear in how you meant it.

Maximizing distance, check-in nets that accomplish nothing, long rag chews about meaningless crap - I think you can fill in the blanks.

Quote

you are stating the GMRUS is trying to be authoritative, yet it appears you are doing the same.

I'm on my own; I'm not making up any rules.  I can damn sure speak out on what concerns me, and yes that includes breaking rules that the agency in charge made - like it or not.

[SeaScholar]

It seems that some of my posts didn't quite clear the air, and some folks are still spinning GMRUS into a big, complicated deal. My apologies if the language was too formal. Let me try again and be as simple as possible.

We're just a club. That’s it. A place for people who like GMRS to hang out and chat. myGMRS is a great place for people to chat, too. This is just another place, with different tools, if people want to join. Nobody is forcing anyone.

The only reason the word "national" is even involved is because our clubhouse is online, so anyone can join the conversation, even if you live on the other side of the country.

GMRS is a local thing, we all get that. But the people who use it are everywhere. The whole point of this is to have a place to connect with others outside of your immediate radio range. It's a way to swap ideas, ask questions, and see what other GMRS users are up to.

There is no big agenda here. There never was any intentions to be the GMRS police, we're not lobbying anyone, and we are definitely not trying to be in charge of anything. It’s just a group of people who share a common interest.

And thank you for the constructive criticisms, even if some of them are far off base.

So, let's put this to rest. It's simple: you don't have to join, and it won't affect your life or your radio use in any way if you don't. Please, stop trying to turn this simple club into something it's not.

[OffRoaderX]

2 minutes ago, SeaScholar said:

The whole point of this is to have a place to connect with others outside of your immediate radio range. It's a way to swap ideas, ask questions, and see what other GMRS users are up to.

Isn't that what this website/forum is for?

[SeaScholar]

3 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

Isn't that what this website/forum is for?

Great question, but are you saying this is THE ONLY place we can do that? ie, gatekeeping? 

EDIT: No other club is required to only be on here. I only put ours on here in case there were people who wanted to go to other places. Like Discord, where we have other tools to 'hangout and chat' when not on radios somewhere. 

[ChaosVortex]

5 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

I don't know what you're referring to.  I started this thread.  And I only comment on the topics that interest me.

See? This is what I mean. There is no need to act like your antenna is larger then everyone else's.

6 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

I respond to hostility with the same. (You don't see all the crap that I ignore.)  Based on how things have gone on this forum, I will never go back to being meek and mild, sugar and spice.  It's either fight back or be scared off.  I'm a dyed in the wool Confederate - we don't run from a fight.   But none of this is relevant anyway.

Looking past the obvious bait, I will state that even with a forum like this, one must have thicker skin. If you value the opinion of complete strangers that you will never met, then by remaining on the forums you are in truth doing it for yourself and will garner no sympathy from me.

19 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Yes, if the nets were local, and limited to mobile and handheld only as the regs require, then I would agree.  What is happening around here is repeaters have been put up on the same mountains where ham repeaters are, with similar wide coverage areas.  And people are checking in from base stations 50-100 miles away and bragging about it.

Please state where this is going on, give club details.

21 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

IGMRS is intended for local, short range comms. per FCC.

What is deemed as short distance to you, in miles. Also how do you negate propagation? 

22 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Maximizing distance, check-in nets that accomplish nothing, long rag chews about meaningless crap - I think you can fill in the blanks.

Your radio has a on/off setting. Turn off the radio. There, see how fast that goes away?

23 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

II'm on my own; I'm not making up any rules.  I can damn sure speak out on what concerns me, and yes that includes breaking rules that the agency in charge made - like it or not.

If you are not making up rules, then why are you concerned about the rules? 

[UncleYoda]

2 minutes ago, ChaosVortex said:

[bunch of confrontational crap]

73

SeaScholar, it seems you are now changing the format or definition to something that seems to be directly competing with this site.  Of course that is allowed, but it's a different can of worms.  If you call your group something like SE Minnesota GMRS Club then we can let it rest as you wish.  (But on this site everyone likes to get the last word, especially the attackers.  So be prepared for it go on for pages more.)