Let's open another can of worms, Digital GMRS/MURS.

[TNFrank]

Do you think they'll ever come a time when we can use a DMR Radio to digitally transmit on GMRS and MURS Frequencies?  Seems like it'd be the next logical step in the evolution of GMRS/MURS.  Please be kind and don't beat me up too much for asking this. Thanks. 

[OffRoaderX]

On GMRS? No.. that would defeat its purpose..

On MURS? I think you already can?

[AdmiralCochrane]

It's pretty simple.  If you want the other modes, use the services that allow them.

[TNFrank]

22 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

On GMRS? No.. that would defeat its purpose..

On MURS? I think you already can?

Would that be because MURS was originally used Commercially?

P.S.

Enjoyed your video with Josh the other night.

[OffRoaderX]

40 minutes ago, TNFrank said:

Would that be because MURS was originally used Commercially?

I dont know the reasons, but that would make sense.

[WRUE951]

there is some limitations to Digital use on MURS but i don't understand them..  ..   I do know digital on MURS is used a lot in the areas i frequent including some use of encryption, which I think is not legal on MURS..  Up in Mammoth area, there is someone using MURS set up as a repeater using two channels and  with Digital..  That is not permitted but they're doing it anyway. Pretty sure they are extending the use of a  repeater for  fishing charter boats on Crawley but not 100% sure..  

[LeoG]

Keep that digital crap off GMRS.

[nokones]

Digital emissions is allowed on MURS, but only for Data, not voice. Which is essentially the same restriction for GMRS.

So, that means no P25 or DMR stuff.

[amaff]

5 hours ago, nokones said:

Digital emissions is allowed on MURS, but only for Data, not voice. Which is essentially the same restriction for GMRS.

So, that means no P25 or DMR stuff.

In digital modes, isn't everything data? 

Not trying to be a smartass for once, and genuinely asking haha
Other than using .gov radios already set up for digital modes, I'm not super familiar with setting them up and how it works.

[Jaay]

On 9/29/2025 at 2:36 PM, TNFrank said:

Do you think they'll ever come a time when we can use a DMR Radio to digitally transmit on GMRS and MURS Frequencies?  Seems like it'd be the next logical step in the evolution of GMRS/MURS.  Please be kind and don't beat me up too much for asking this. Thanks. 

Not logical, and Not likely, but you can Wish ? 

 

On 9/29/2025 at 2:43 PM, OffRoaderX said:

On GMRS? No.. that would defeat its purpose..

On MURS? I think you already can?

GPS can be used on Murs, but No digital modes for transmitting.

[Jaay]

12 minutes ago, amaff said:

In digital modes, isn't everything data? 

Not trying to be a smartass for once, and genuinely asking haha
Other than using .gov radios already set up for digital modes, I'm not super familiar with setting them up and how it works.

For Gps plotting and location tracks, yes but No digital modes for transmitting.

[WRYZ926]

And GPS is brand specific. Baofeng radios will only share GPS coordinates with other Baofeng radios. Wouxun radios will only share with other Wouxun radios. It would be nice to see an actual industry wide standard for this but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Kind of like DMR vs System Fusion VS D-Star for amateur radio.

[WRUE951]

45 minutes ago, amaff said:

In digital modes, isn't everything data? 

Not trying to be a smartass for once, and genuinely asking haha
Other than using .gov radios already set up for digital modes, I'm not super familiar with setting them up and how it works.

Yup

 

[SteveShannon]

First, here is a condensed list of the most common emission types allowed in the Personal Radio Services, but for a comprehensive list the link to 2.201 explains how the emission type designators are formed.  Also, a more comprehensive list of types, showing the full designations can be found at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Emission_Designator.

§ 95.371 Emission types.

In general, Personal Radio Services stations may transmit any emission type that is appropriate for the permissible uses of the specific service, provided that it does not exceed the authorized bandwidth for that service and is in full compliance with the modulation limits (if any) and unwanted emission limits for the specific service.

(a) Exceptions. In some of the Personal Radio Services, stations may transmit only certain specific emission types. Any such limits are set forth in the emission types rule in the subpart governing that service. See e.g., §§ 95.971 and 95.2971.

(b) Emission type designators. Emission type designators are defined in § 2.201 of this chapter. Designators for emissions commonly used in the Personal Radio Services are as follows:

 

Description	Designator
Voice, AM	A3E
Voice, SSB	J3E
Voice, FM	F3E
Voice, PM	G3E
Data, FSK	F1D
Data, AFSK	F2D
Data, PSK	G1D
Test, no modulation	N0N

These are the emission types allowed for MURS:

§ 95.2771 MURS emission types.

A MURS transmitter must transmit only emission types A1D, A2B, A2D, A3E, F2B, F1D, F2D, F3E, and G3E. Emission types A3E, F3E and G3E may include selective calling or tone-operated squelch tones to establish or continue voice communications. MURS transmitters are prohibited from transmitting in the continuous carrier mode.

For GMRS the following emission types are allowed:

95.1771 GMRS emission types.

Each GMRS transmitter type must be designed to satisfy the emission capability rules in this section. Operation of GMRS stations must also be in compliance with these rules.

(a) Each GMRS transmitter type must have the capability to transmit F3E or G3E emissions.

(b) Only emission types A1D, F1D, G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E, H3E, J3E, R3E, F2D, and G2D are authorized for use in the GMRS. Equipment for which certification is sought under this subpart may have capabilities to transmit other emission types intended for use in other services, provided that these emission types can be deactivated when the equipment is used in the GMRS.

There are more limitations below that apply to GMRS. Note that the requirements in (a)(2) and (a)(3) would make it very difficult to transmit live voices:

§ 95.1787 GMRS additional requirements.

Each hand-held portable unit transmitter type submitted for certification under this subpart is subject to the rules in this section.

(a) Digital data transmissions. GMRS hand-held portable units that have the capability to transmit digital data must be designed to meet the following requirements.

(1) Digital data transmissions may contain location information, or requesting location information from one or more other GMRS or FRS units, or containing a brief text message to another specific GMRS or FRS unit. Digital data transmissions may be initiated by a manual action of the operator or on an automatic or periodic basis, and a GMRS unit receiving an interrogation request may automatically respond with its location.

(2) Digital data transmissions must not exceed one second in duration.

(3) Digital data transmissions must not be sent more frequently than one digital data transmission within a thirty-second period, except that a GMRS unit may automatically respond to more than one interrogation request received within a thirty-second period.

(4) The antenna must be a non-removable integral part of the GMRS unit.

(5) GMRS units must not be capable of transmitting digital data on the 467 MHz main channels.

 

[LeoG]

57 minutes ago, amaff said:

In digital modes, isn't everything data? 

Not trying to be a smartass for once, and genuinely asking haha
Other than using .gov radios already set up for digital modes, I'm not super familiar with setting them up and how it works.

I was thinking the same thing.  There is no "voice" on digital, just ones and zeros.  I assume they only want short bursts of data and not someone droning on how their eggs were to runny this morning polluting the airwaves with a constant digital whine.

[LeoG]

 

Quote

 

(4) The antenna must be a non-removable integral part of the GMRS unit.

(5) GMRS units must not be capable of transmitting digital data on the 467 MHz main channels.

 

Those 2 are big.  Not a GMRS radio if you can't remove the antenna and not transmit on 467Mhz, that sounds like an FRS designation.

[SteveShannon]

10 minutes ago, LeoG said:

 

Those 2 are big.  Not a GMRS radio if you can't remove the antenna and not transmit on 467Mhz, that sounds like an FRS designation.

You misunderstand.  Those are directly out of the GMRS regulations.  They simply mean that a GMRS certified radio designed to transmit data, may not have a removable antenna and may not transmit data on the 467 main channels which are primarily used as repeater inputs. Digital data is not to be transmitted through repeaters.  If I enable my Garmin radio to use the repeater channels it automatically disables the location and text message data.

Some manufacturers whose radios transmit location data glue their removable antennas in place in order to comply. That’s most likely an insincere attempt to comply.

[Lscott]

On 9/29/2025 at 3:36 PM, TNFrank said:

Do you think they'll ever come a time when we can use a DMR Radio to digitally transmit on GMRS and MURS Frequencies? 

Is digital voice mode a possibility in the future for GMRS, yes, MURS no.

Would it likely be DMR, no.

I've posted several versions of the attached file at various times on my reasons. The comments are too lengthy to simply post in a forum thread.  Note I'm an Engineer, not an English major so some of the writing might be a bit on the rough side.

GMRS Digital Voice - 20251001.pdf

This is a real world example of how it can be done, at least in the EU, for their license free radio service.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/640-tk-3701djpg/?context=new

This is an example of the higher power version for licensed use.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/500-ic-f3162dt-front-and-back-sidepng/?context=new

There are some used Part 95 certified NXDN radios on the used market. This is a brochure of an example. I have several of both the VHF and UHF models.

https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/02_NX-200G&300GBrochure.pdf

Note the FCC Part 95 grant is for the 450-520 MHz band split version, FCC ID ALH378500. Typically their 400-470 MHz band split model grants don't include Part 95.

NX-300G FCC Grant - 1.pdf

[HHD1]

4 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

(2) Digital data transmissions must not exceed one second in duration.

The radio would have to record you when you PTT, then transmit your recording in a second or less when you release. I could see tech finding away.  However,

4 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

(3) Digital data transmissions must not be sent more frequently than one digital data transmission within a thirty-second period

This would make it suck the most.

 

In the end, just leave it analog for voice.  It's more fun that way. Less Mess.

[Blaise]

6 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

(4) The antenna must be a non-removable integral part of the GMRS unit.

Well *that* sucks pretty hard...

[HHD1]

3 minutes ago, Blaise said:

Well *that* sucks pretty hard...

My Kg-q10g antenna came off fairly easy.  I could see a bit of glue res on the threads.  One of my BTech GMRS-Pros came off like normal.  The other wouldn't budge without the risk of breaking, so I figured they used loctite on that unit.  How it affects the IP67 rating is debatable. And it definitely voids the warranty, although there's no way for anyone to tell.

I think it's a dumb rule.  They should have just said that you may not use with an amplifier.  Cuz I think that's the only reason it's in the rules. 

[LeoG]

They want to keep the transmission to a certain effective radiated power.  So they don't want you to put an antenna with gain on it.

[HHD1]

4 hours ago, LeoG said:

They want to keep the transmission to a certain effective radiated power.  So they don't want you to put an antenna with gain on it.

This is the antenna that comes on a KG-Q10G.  Can you make out the writing on it?

[LeoG]

So what is the gain?  The highest gain antenna I've seen for an HT is 3dBi.  Which is really .85dB gain.  Not much of a gain.  If it's listed in dBi then subtract 2.15 to get the real gain of the antenna.  And another observation, that's a removable antenna.  We were talking about non removable antennas.

And manufacturers never lie about their products.

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, LeoG said:

The highest gain antenna I've seen for an HT is 3dBi.

But any radio with a removable antenna could be connected to a high gain mobile or even base station antenna with possibly 12 dBd gain. 

[LeoG]

I looked up the radio and the only thing is says about the antenna is it is non removable.  So it was equipped with the radio and got the FCC approval with that antenna so the ERP is fcc approved with that antenna, no matter what it's gain is.

Which also means you are now operating a non compliant radio.