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Flaggers heard using FRS


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#21 Hans

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:30 AM

I also think there is a lot of confusion due to the name "Family Radio Service".  The name implies that it is for use by families, not businesses.

 

Yep, I think the name plays a significant role in the confusion for many.


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#22 Hans

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:38 AM

When did truckers quit using CB's? What are they using now?

 

I hear them on FRS, MURS, and some on CB. It's been like that for at least a decade or two now around here? What I've noticed is FRS and MURS for general comms and CB for heavy traffic issues.



#23 fra1

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:44 PM

Just to clarify my earlier post about flaggers, etc..  I was not questioning the legality of anything, I was simply replying to another post about hearing "flaggers" and reporting what I hear and on which service.  


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#24 fra1

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:52 PM

I hear them on FRS, MURS, and some on CB. It's been like that for at least a decade or two now around here? What I've noticed is FRS and MURS for general comms and CB for heavy traffic issues.

 

Thanks for info!  I'm on the interstate about 7-8 hours a week, and I scan GMRS, FRS, and MURS but have never heard anyone who was a trucker.  I really don't hear much of anything except kids on FRS.


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#25 Hans

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:53 PM

Thanks for info!  I'm on the interstate about 7-8 hours a week, and I scan GMRS, FRS, and MURS but have never heard anyone who was a trucker.  I really don't hear much of anything except kids on FRS.

Everywhere might be a little different. I live by two major highways. MURS and CB are what I hear most with some FRS mixed in now and again. Most FRS users I hear probably aren't truckers.



#26 Elkhunter521

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:23 PM

Just an observation,
I live near the junction of I-84 (major east/west) and I-5 (major north/south) Interstate highways. CB traffic is beginning to come back on I-84 which is across Columbia river from my house ( 4 miles and almost visible) I have only heard gmrs a couple of times but always on GMRS 18.(no call signs)
CB is several an hour on ch 19, and ch 17.

Again, just an observation.
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Be vewy vewy quiet.
I'm listening to my wadio!

#27 marcspaz

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:56 PM

CB is making a major comeback around here too.  I am just south of DC and the OTR truckers use them for entertainment, assistance with getting around traffic without violating their route permits, etc.


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#28 Jones

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:20 AM

Here in Nebraska, CB never went out of fashion with the local short-haul trucking community.  All of the local guys still use channel 19, and we now have an expanding population of immigrant truck drivers in the area using channel 22 in Spanish.  I live 5 blocks away from a grain elevator, and 4 miles from a feed distribution site, so I hear a lot of CB traffic every hour.  The elevator uses either channel 19, or sometimes channel 12 to instruct drivers how to back around to the loading/unloading areas etc.

 

I live in the middle of nowhere, so the only thing I ever hear on GMRS is my own family, and some occasional ducting from a grandfathered business-licensed system on .625 that is used by a concrete company east of me about 70 miles.  (They have a phone patch.  Not sure that's legal even on a grandfathered system.)

 

On FRS channel 1, I quite often hear the little girls across the street playing with their walkie talkies, but that's about it.


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#29 BoxCar

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:27 AM

The FCC just issued a notice of violation to Traffic Control Services for unlicensed operation on LMR and GMRS frequencies in 4 mid-Atlantic sates. https://docs.fcc.gov...OC-357545A1.pdf


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Old and wise infers you were once young and stupid


#30 Hans

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 11:05 AM

The FCC just issued a notice of violation to Traffic Control Services for unlicensed operation on LMR and GMRS frequencies in 4 mid-Atlantic sates. https://docs.fcc.gov...OC-357545A1.pdf

 

Another part of that notice recognized that they could've used FRS but their transmitters lacked the proper certification.


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#31 Jones

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 09:42 AM

The FCC just issued a notice of violation to Traffic Control Services for unlicensed operation on LMR and GMRS frequencies in 4 mid-Atlantic sates. https://docs.fcc.gov...OC-357545A1.pdf

 

Looks like another big company cheating the rules in the name of profits.  This company as a very well designed website, advertising over 1,600 employees with a fleet of hundreds of trucks, working over 500 active job sites per day.  They even publish a monthly employee newsletter.  I guess they will have to drop a few hundred grand on a license and new radios. ...or just go true FRS.



#32 BoxCar

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:56 AM

The key points in the letter were the use of the GMRS frequencies and uncertified units. They are using the GMRS capable equipment for its higher power so they can cover longer distances between flagging points. The uncertified equipment would be amatuer gear repurposed for GMRS/Part 90 frequencies.


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#33 Hans

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:31 PM

1) They do hold a license for mobile itinerant frequencies, albeit a relatively small number of 5 watt units.

 

 

The Land Mobile Radio Service license WQOB287 authorizes Traffic Control Services LLC DBA Flagger Force to operate radio transmitting equipment on the frequencies 461.1125 MHz, 461.2125 MHz, 466.1125 MHz, and 466.2125 MHz.

 

 

2) They were allegedly operating on LMRS, FRS, and GMRS.

 

 


employees are allegedly operating two-way radios on the Land Mobile Radio Service (LMRS) frequency 464.550 MHz and on multiple frequencies in the Family Radio Service (FRS) and General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) including 467.6125 MHz, 467.6375 MHz, 467.6625 MHz, and 462.7250 MHz.

 

 

3) The allegedly don't hold a license for LMRS or GMRS.

 

 


does not hold a license to operate any radio transmitting equipment on the LMRS

 

 


here is no evidence that ... holds, or is eligible to hold, a license to operate radio transmitting equipment on any GMRS frequency.

 

 

4) They were allegedly using uncertified equipment on the license by rule FRS.

 

 


Although an individual license is not required to operate radio transmitting equipment in the FRS, the radio transmitting equipment must be certificated for use in the FRS in accordance with subpart J of part 2 of the Commission’s Rules.

 

 

5) As far as I can figure, they allegedly did not qualify for Part 15 exception on 464.550 MHz due to power levels and/or modes.

 

 


The only exception to this licensing requirement is for certain transmitters using or operating at a power level or mode of operation that complies with the standards established in Part 15 of the Commission’s rules.

 



#34 Hans

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:45 PM

The key points in the letter were the use of the GMRS frequencies and uncertified units.

 

Unlicensed use of LMRS frequencies without falling under the Part 15 power level/modes exception is also a big point. IMHO, someone would get smacked more quickly by the FCC for unauthorized use/interference on LMRS before they would GMRS or FRS. Also IMHO, GMRS and FRS were just gravy on top of the LMRS meat for the FCC. Notice which service the FCC listed first... LMRS, ;)

 

They are using the GMRS capable equipment for its higher power so they can cover longer distances between flagging points.

 

There is no indication that they were using mobiles or running over power limits in GMRS. Their license for itenerant frequencies is for 5 watt units. That's no less than what a certified GMRS unit would be capable of. Besides, why wouldn't they have simply used more units than they had licensed since the wattage is the same and the frequency range isn't that much different so propagation differences would likely be negligible, barring some kind of interference. No, I don't believe this was about higher power output unless the FCC forgot to document it in the notice; which is something I would find unlikely.

 

 

The uncertified equipment would be amatuer gear repurposed for GMRS/Part 90 frequencies.

 

It didn't have to necessarily been amateur gear. The document doesn't state that they were running Part 15 certified or home brew equipment.


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#35 Hans

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:49 PM

Addendum:

 

on the Land Mobile Radio Service (LMRS) frequency 464.550 MHz and on multiple frequencies in the Family Radio Service (FRS) and General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

 

Notice that FRS is nestled between LMRS at the front and GMRS at the end? When I was writing legal notices and might have to argue them (in a previous lifetime), I would put the most important first, the least important in the middle, and the second most important last. The first and last generally stay in the minds of those reading/hearing an argument the most. B)


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#36 DocAdams

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 04:05 PM

I'd been using a pair of FRS handhelds to let my kids know when it was time to come out to the bus (I wait out in the nasty weather where I can see down the road, they wait inside. Fair trade, right?) and one day as I'm turning the units on I hear flaggers coordinating on channel 1. I decided that was a good day to fall back to the ol' "waving arms vigorously" to signal the kids.

 

Turned out to be very handy, hearing the flaggers, because the highway in front of my house was the section reduced to one-way traffic with the stop points out of view in either direction. Made it less worrisome pulling out and driving to work!



#37 marcspaz

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:08 PM

I have been thinking about this thread for about a week.  I drive around with my radio scanning all the GMRS (including shared FRS channels).  Every day, Monday through Friday, from about 6 AM until about 6 PM (some channels, 24x7) every single GMRS and FRS frequency is in use by at least one business.  Some channels are being used by multiple businesses in the same county.  Some businesses are using multiple GMRS and FRS frequencies.

 

After noticing this... I came to the conclusion that regardless of the laws and whats permitted, it is really impossible for practical use of GMRS and FRS in my area without causing interference or being the recipient of interference.  I know I invested in the gear I have for when we go offroading... but it seems grossly unfair that businesses are using GMRS channel and flooding FRS channels, making it so the service is mostly unusable to a private party around here.

 

Truth be told, using CTCSS (TSQL) and DCS can be a workaround so I can't hear them, but using these squelch methods noticeably reduces the ability to receive weak signals.

 

Of course, this is just a moral opinion and a point of aggravation on my part.  I'm done venting.  LOL


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#38 Elkhunter521

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 05:29 PM

Hi marcspaz,

Did you block me from a pm?
Be vewy vewy quiet.
I'm listening to my wadio!

#39 Elkhunter521

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 05:34 PM

If you didnt, PLEASE give me your email
Be vewy vewy quiet.
I'm listening to my wadio!

#40 marcspaz

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 06:59 PM

Hi marcspaz,

Did you block me from a pm?

 

 

If you didnt, PLEASE give me your email

 

We're good.  I sent you a PM.






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