Do you talk to the --- unlicensed?

[Linus]

I wonder what people do out here when they encounter the unlicensed. Assuming it is an adult on the other end, do you ever just have a chat -- say hello?

 

I am not talking about unlicensed users on a repeater. Those people do not have permission from the owner. My question revolves around the simplex users who transmit on the GMRS only frequencies and not he shared GMRS/FRS channels. I know that they also do not have permission from the FCC to talk simplex either, but I wonder what people here do when the unlicensed start a conversation with you. I do not have much of a history with this. Please note, I am not stating here that we should encourage unlicensed users to continue without a proper license. We paid for our licenses and follow the rules, other people should also abide by the same rules too.

 

In the amateur world, the only unlicensed users (abusers) that I have come across have been caused harmful and intentional disruption. I have ignored them, and in severe cases just turn off the radio. Fortune has it, those cases are very rare.

 

In the GMRS arena I once let a business know they were accidentally on a GMRS frequency. The business manager was reasonable and thankful for the information and moved to FRS.

 

Since I have had my license, I have never actually carried on a conversation (except a briefly with business unknowingly on the wrong channel) who is unlicensed on a GMRS only channel. I have my scanner on all day and the GMRS/FRS channels are almost completely clear and unused here. Occasionally I hear someone on FRS. It might be once a week if I am really lucky. The last GMRS call sign I heard over the air was in 2001 while riding in the car with someone in Wisconsin. 

 

My use of the spectrum is pretty much me and my family. I have occasionally loaned out some older FRS radios to others and spoken to them on my GMRS radio. Very few people I know out here in the Seattle suburbs has ever heard of GMRS. Personally I tend to ignore unlicensed users because there are many other channels that sit unused here. Other than a lack of a call sign identification, I can usually tell they are not licensed because they use that really annoying roger beep and the equally dreadful call button. I do not sit around for 10 minutes waiting for the other user to ID.    For others, I am certain there is a really serious issue of unlicensed users. It must be worse in a larger city especially if a repeater is involved. Most users who are not licensed probably never realized they need a license in the first place because they do not read the manual.

 

I draw from an analogy. They are like people who have overstayed their visa or not bothered to get one in the first place. They are around, but not legally.

[PastorGary]

Fortunate in my two main residential locations that there aren't any users on GMRS or FRS except just after Christmas each year when the diaper patrol gets wired and use the radios until the batteries die.

 

No one on the repeaters in either location except for my family and occasionally one other who has permission and essentially clear channel operations in the 100 mile diameter service area.

 

As far as 'talking' with unlicensed GMRS users, I truely can't say that I ever have.  Now, on my licensed business frequency, that's another matter, and a discussion for another day.

[captdan]

I am in New Jersey, along the river between Pennsylvania and New Jersey. 8 miles from downtown Trenton, NJ the state capital, 11 miles from downtown Princeton, NJ, 32 miles from center city Philadelphia.  GMRS and MURS is really quiet here.  I mean really quiet ! I occasionally hear a volunteer fire department in Pennsylvania use on GMRS. They apparently have a pretty decent repeater that I receive 15 miles north/west of them.  I hear them whenever they have an "event" going on.  I have been unable to locate a license for them. Occasionally I will hear someone key up on Rich's repeater but no voice, just the repeater identifying itself. 

 

The point being that I don't really hear anyone to talk to, and I have a radio scanning GMRS & MURS along with other frequencies on other radio's about 18 hours per day, it's very quite here.

[quarterwave]

I have advised a few that they were on a GMRS channel that requires a license, and if they did not have one they needed to move to an FRS channel. Usually that just draws a "HUH?"....not smart enough to read the manual anyway. 

 

I chased a doctors office off a GMRS channel by setting up a 15 minute interval CW ID beacon on the channel and PL they were on. They got the point and are now on a FRS channel with their little Walmart "headsets" they somehow think are business radios....never mind the fact they are violating HIPPA laws by transmitting patient info....lol.

 

There is a rental yard in our city on 650 with some Kenwoods....just a lazy dealer put them on a channel so they would not have to get licensed. I don't hear them much, but I am not worried about it. I only got onto the doctors office as I wanted them to realize what they were doing.  

[Shriekmau]

I seem to remember a previous discussion around HIPPA and the transmission of patient information over radios. If I remember right, HIPPA did not reach to cover patient information transmitted over radio. I could be remembering incorrectly though.

[Linus]

Wow. HIPAA information over an unencrypted radio channel. That is crazy. They are asking for some serious fines for that type of data breach.

[captdan]

Jeremy,

 

I remember that discussion also.  I did not weigh in then, but the bottom line is HIPPA does not necessarily discuss all of the procedures and processes, etc but creates a  bottom line so to speak, that establishes a legal obligation to maintain a person's privacy. 

 

I dealt with it just a little just prior to leaving my prior employment, if I remember correctly there are potentially both criminal and civil penalties for violation of HIPPA laws.

[Shriekmau]

Understood, and that makes sense.

[quarterwave]

Yeah, I don't know the particulars, but I know a hospital that got into some serious hoo-hah with the Government over complaints of patient info, both health and ID stuff going out over FRS. 

 

I think the important thing is putting out that kind of info carelessly....regardless of any laws, it's just good sense not to. I'm sure those medical employees wouldn't want me to give their name, address, SSN, DOB, etc over open air....

[Unit61]

I seem to remember a previous discussion around HIPPA and the transmission of patient information over radios. If I remember right, HIPPA did not reach to cover patient information transmitted over radio. I could be remembering incorrectly though.

I just wanted to add to this, HIPPA does not specify the form of communication as its restrictions apply directly to the information contained not the means of transmitting that information.. If someone is violating HIPPA laws it does not matter how or where they are doing it, it is still a violation.. Dissemination of information in any means to anyone other than those privileged to receive it is a violation. It could be in person, over the phone, over the Air or what have it.

When training as an Emergency Medical Technician it was pounded into our heads never ever give a patients personal information over the radio or telephone to the hospital or anyone else for that matter. When transmitting vitals and other 

pertinent information the most we could do is give the patients age and sex over the air. The rest of the information went into the report.

[stmills]

Covered entities need to take reasonable steps where ever possible to minimize incidental disclosures but HIPPA permits incidental disclosures- ie scanner monitoring ambulance to hospital report. The use FRS radios in a hospital could be covered if it has a legitimate medical need, but with the short range of FRS it may be a hard fight to explain the legitimate need for the radio usage to transmit the PHI in most instances.

[jwilkers]

I believe it is against regulations for a licensee to communicate with an "unauthorized station" IE, unlicensed.  Of course, who am I to disagree with someone who gently nudges a pirate off a frequency.

[WQPE714]

Fortunate in my two main residential locations that there aren't any users on GMRS or FRS except just after Christmas each year when the diaper patrol gets wired and use the radios until the batteries die.

 

No one on the repeaters in either location except for my family and occasionally one other who has permission and essentially clear channel operations in the 100 mile diameter service area.

 

As far as 'talking' with unlicensed GMRS users, I truely can't say that I ever have.  Now, on my licensed business frequency, that's another matter, and a discussion for another day.

 

Uh guys what is diaper patrol? But I too only hear kids goofing off on FRS, husbands who force their wives to use the bubblepack/baofeng radio with them for fun with no reason and 1 morbidly obese ham with a 40 watt TYT mobile who messes with the kids.

[WQPE714]

I have advised a few that they were on a GMRS channel that requires a license, and if they did not have one they needed to move to an FRS channel. Usually that just draws a "HUH?"....not smart enough to read the manual anyway. 

 

I chased a doctors office off a GMRS channel by setting up a 15 minute interval CW ID beacon on the channel and PL they were on. They got the point and are now on a FRS channel with their little Walmart "headsets" they somehow think are business radios....never mind the fact they are violating HIPPA laws by transmitting patient info....lol.

 

There is a rental yard in our city on 650 with some Kenwoods....just a lazy dealer put them on a channel so they would not have to get licensed. I don't hear them much, but I am not worried about it. I only got onto the doctors office as I wanted them to realize what they were doing.  

 

I am surprised you got such compliance, I usually just get a tirade of insults and swear words non stop until I, in their own words, "stop interfering" with their "line". The CW ID people would've just kept flipping tones or ignoring it. Surprised anyone still even buys bubble packs, so "outdated" for these people lol

[Guest spd641]

Uh guys what is diaper patrol? But I too only hear kids goofing off on FRS, husbands who force their wives to use the bubblepack/baofeng radio with them for fun with no reason and 1 morbidly obese ham with a 40 watt TYT mobile who messes with the kids.

I will answer the diaper patrol question.Pastor Gary was referring to the"children" that receive the radios and play with them until the battery dies.BTW I take offense to the morbidly obese ham comment.Hey I am a ham but I am 6ft 2" and about 318 lbs...J/K it didn't offend me...William

[aglafon]

On Amateur radio you are not allowed to talk to unlicensed stations.

Here in WV we just got a repeater on and have an issue with a pair

of clowns who can not open their mouth with out using some combination

of the F word and other low life language. We are using sub tone to block

them as they just get on out put of Repeater with high power. Working

on locating both and will send certified letters if they do not stop then file

an compliant with FCC.

 

[jwilkers]

I ignore any unlicensed people. On GMRS, I am only interested in talking to family anyhow. On the amateur bands, I don't hear a call, I don't respond. Ever.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[Durake]

I was at a Car Wash with my mom and I had my Wouxun HT with me and I noticed these employees working it were using little bubble pack radios, so I scanned the FRS/GMRS channels and found out, they were using the GMRS channels UNLICENSED! I was shocked! Lol, so decided to mess with them, I scanned the CTCS/DCS tone they were using and scooted down far in the seat, and started talking to them, and their reaction was priceless, I could hear the DTMF I was sending from the car, maaaaan, it was crazy. But don't worry, I gave my callsign on a different PL tone! 

 

On a more "professional" level I will usually wait to see if they identify, if they don't after a while of listening I will give my callsign and state they are using a licensed frequency, and if they are licensed they will need to state their GMRS callsign.

[n4gix]

Uh Drake, you do realize that the first seven FRS frequencies are shared with GMRS... right?

01 462.5625 FRS 1.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 9............... 5 W 25 kHz Unofficial national calling channel
02 462.5875 FRS 2.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 10............. 5 W 25 kHz
03 462.6125 FRS 3.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 11............. 5 W 25 kHz
04 462.6375 FRS 4.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 12............. 5 W 25 kHz
05 462.6625 FRS 5.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 13............. 5 W 25 kHz
06 462.6875 FRS 6.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 14............. 5 W 25 kHz
07 462.7125 FRS 7.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 15............. 5 W 25 kHz

[Durake]

Uh Drake, you do realize that the first seven FRS frequencies are shared with GMRS... right?

 

01 462.5625 FRS 1.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 9............... 5 W 25 kHz Unofficial national calling channel

02 462.5875 FRS 2.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 10............. 5 W 25 kHz

03 462.6125 FRS 3.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 11............. 5 W 25 kHz

04 462.6375 FRS 4.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 12............. 5 W 25 kHz

05 462.6625 FRS 5.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 13............. 5 W 25 kHz

06 462.6875 FRS 6.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 14............. 5 W 25 kHz

07 462.7125 FRS 7.... 500 mW 12.5 kHz GMRS 15............. 5 W 25 kHz

 

I completely do realize that, they were not on the FRS and GMRS shared frequencies, they were on GMRS Simplex. Example: 462.700.

[mainehazmt]

they were on GMRS Simplex. Example: 462.700.

. Hey that's not fair that's a channel even having a license. I can't use

[Durake]

. Hey that's not fair that's a channel even having a license. I can't use

Interesting..

[n4gix]

That's because you are near Canada, where that frequency is commercial usage...

[jwilkers]

The bubblepack radios, however CANNOT be used on those shared frequencies without a GMRS license. Remember, FRS is narrow band and GMRS is wideband. Those bubblepack radios are set for wideband on all but the FRS-only frequencies.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[WQYC236]

About 2:00 AM one morning I over heard two guys planning a break in several miles away using their bubble pack radios. I started answering their transmissions, which produced stunned silence, followed by the statement "Go to the secret channel".  I turned on the scanner and found the "secret" channel in about 10 seconds. I then pretended to be a hidden observer who would "keep them in sight" until the police arrived. Panic ensued and the nefarious activities were abandoned for the evening.