New Interfering (IX) Signals - "Baby Monitors" using GMRS/FRS

[wayoverthere]

 

Oh my - you have to love the information gained from Q&A.

 

Question: What fcc registration category does this device operate under? (eg. part 15, part 90, part 95, part 97, etc.)

 

Answer: Communication

By Yolanda on February 5, 2021

I think the face that, by default, Amazon bugs you about questions posted on items youve bought leads to people with little to no clue of the actual answer posting useless answers...I'm not sure why, though, as it doesn't seem to give you points of anything...

[wqxq281]

I doubt the FCC is going to come out and knock on the doors of folks using illegal baby monitors. Probably the most effective solution is for the FCC to send a strongly worded cease and desist letter to the USA sellers. The CCR baby monitors will fail in short order.

[AdmiralCochrane]

I doubt the FCC is going to come out and knock on the doors of folks using illegal baby monitors. Probably the most effective solution is for the FCC to send a strongly worded cease and desist letter to the USA sellers. The CCR baby monitors will fail in short order.

 If the capacitors don't fail, the batteries will puff and leak.  Timebombs headed for the trash each and every one

[WRBU799]

Can confirm this was jamming the input to our local 462.625 repeater. After a fox hunt led to an in-person visit and conversation, followed by multiple escalating phone calls, it finally ceased operation. It was being used as an intercom, to talk through a plexiglass window, at a popular local buffet restaurant for patrons to tell the chef how they would like their steaks prepared.

Hosmart HY777

[WRPQ991]

I don't know how much it takes to get the FCC's attention, they are busy trying to stop cyber attacks and interference with our power and fuel grids. (watch for "false flags" from our Government, Question everything) And investigating Elon Musk for buying stock in Twitter. They've given up on CB just listen to CH 6 .

Most people are completely ignorant to radio bandwidth and frequencies. They just buy what they think will work, plug it in and go. There is no malice, no bad intentions, just the attitude if I can buy it, it must be legal.

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, WRPQ991 said:

I don't know how much it takes to get the FCC's attention, they are busy trying to stop cyber attacks and interference with our power and fuel grids. (watch for "false flags" from our Government, Question everything) And investigating Elon Musk for buying stock in Twitter. They've given up on CB just listen to CH 6 .

Most people are completely ignorant to radio bandwidth and frequencies. They just buy what they think will work, plug it in and go. There is no malice, no bad intentions, just the attitude if I can buy it, it must be legal.

I worked on cyber security for a portion of the western power grid for years.  The FCC had nothing to do with it.

[WRBU799]

On 4/11/2022 at 7:03 AM, WRPQ991 said:

I don't know how much it takes to get the FCC's attention, they are busy trying to stop cyber attacks and interference with our power and fuel grids. (watch for "false flags" from our Government, Question everything) And investigating Elon Musk for buying stock in Twitter. They've given up on CB just listen to CH 6 .

Most people are completely ignorant to radio bandwidth and frequencies. They just buy what they think will work, plug it in and go. There is no malice, no bad intentions, just the attitude if I can buy it, it must be legal.

Oh they had an attitude alright. They put it back on the air the next day around lunch time and their phone lines began lighting up. On the final call, they got very defensive and tried to lie, stating they unplugged it and put it in the managers office. They were then told, "Are you sure you're telling the truth? We hear a steak being ordered, and we know that you know you haven't unplugged it.". Seconds later it disappeared, and they were thanked for their cooperation. They promptly hung-up without another word, and the intercom has not been heard since. By the way, it was transmitting a 734 DPL just like the others.

[MichaelLAX]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:19 PM, WRBU799 said:

Can confirm this was jamming the input to our local 462.625 repeater. After a fox hunt led to an in-person visit and conversation, followed by multiple escalating phone calls, it finally ceased operation. It was being used as an intercom, to talk through a plexiglass window, at a popular local buffet restaurant for patrons to tell the chef how they would like their steaks prepared.

Hosmart HY777

 

Are those (Hosmart HY 777) supposedly license-free FRS intercoms?

I presume the interference was on the output frequency of your 462.625 repeater and not the input freq, but you said input frequency, which, of course, should not be on a FRS device.

[WRBU799]

4 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

 

Are those (Hosmart HY 777) supposedly license-free FRS intercoms?

I presume the interference was on the output frequency of your 462.625 repeater and not the input freq, but you said input frequency, which, of course, should not be on a FRS device.

Supposedly FRS...
It was actually transmitting a steady carrier on 467.625 with a 734DPL. We looked up the owners manual for reference, and they don't even list that as one of the frequencies used by the device. This has actually been the third occurrence where we've had to track down one of these within the last year. So we've actually become very good at identifying the interference it causes when it occurs. The DPL code causes a diesel motor type sound while "doubling" with other users. Sometimes when a user unkeyed, the repeater would rebroadcast what was being said in the restaurant for a quarter second.
We've gotten very good at tracking down the sources. In the last two instances, they were emanating from a private residence so we never saw what was causing it. This time it was a public place, so we got a great opportunity to identify it.

[MichaelLAX]

If they don't stop using them perhaps it's time for your repeater club to form a "Steak users Net" and have a few 50 watt mobiles go to their parking lot and chat up the consequences of over-cooking steaks! 

c.f., hacking McDonald's Drive-Thru intercoms!

[WRBU799]

7 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

If they don't stop using them perhaps it's time for your repeater club to form a "Steak users Net" and have a few 50 watt mobiles go to their parking lot and chat up the consequences of over-cooking steaks! 

c.f., hacking McDonald's Drive-Thru intercoms!

Jack in the Box intercoms was in my past as a youth experimenting with radios.

So, we've silenced two more of them within one day today. I just came back from a really quick hunt where the homeowner thought it was pretty cool when our motley crew of radio operators came to his door and explained the situation. In this instance we didn't make him silence the intercom for good, but just change the channel. I'll explain why. 

Our first hunt this morning led to the homeowner simply surrendering his intercoms to us for experimentation, for which he was compensated for the intercoms and the time he spent patiently listening to our story. One of the members of our group spent the day going over the devices and learning how they function. He discovered that they are operating normally, however, the are defaulted to channel 1 (467.625) right out of the box. He found that people may try to change the channel, but unless they hold the channel button until it beeps, it will always revert to channel 1. So, we can allow the people to keep using them, but did counsel them about the harm it causes when it's on channel 1. It also really opens their eyes when you produce an HT to them that is clearly listening to the inside of their homes. I think this way compliance is better earned when we dont ask that they stop using their purchase altogether.

The other cool discovery we made is that you can talk through the offending intercom while it is transmitting. We tested the group all call frequency (467.6125 726DPL) and we could be heard over the speaker while it's transmitting. For the next one I set my HT1250 up with the tx as the group channel and the rx as the channel 1 on the intercom. Just in case we encounter issues with users who are less than receptive to our requests. 

Here is a link the the FCC documents attached to the ID on the devices we recovered today
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=nvB%2FzJMsBLczLOxMcRfJRg%3D%3D&fcc_id=2AJEM-777&fbclid=IwAR1w5_mEog4yWe_3nPtQfvPNnWqK8xVgG7ISNkwO89zD1LIS0sCwQmbKwvY

[MichaelLAX]

WoW! That’s incredible that they default to transmitting on 467.625 as a supposed FRS device!

[davidrayt]

This post deleted.

[PACNWComms]

On 4/11/2022 at 10:22 AM, Sshannon said:

I worked on cyber security for a portion of the western power grid for years.  The FCC had nothing to do with it.

Same here, and why I never was able to work from home these past two years.....DHS CISA letter meant me and my crew came to the office and job sites. We do SCADA, microwave, satcom, and land mobile radio, along with telemetry for flight testing of experimental aircraft.

As for radio, I find FRS/GMRS equipment all over the place that should not be in use, whether voiding company policy or FCC regulation, like that buffet example provided earlier in the thread.

What I tend to find around my house and at work sites are the baby monitors (audio), some video capable units, and then lots of sites that are supposed to use corporate radios, using Midland GMRS handhelds bought at Cabela's (most are camouflage models). The local thrift stores have received many Midland sets, after providing the corporate users with UHF HT-750/1250, EX500, EX600XLS, PR400/CP200, up to XPR7550e replacements. At this point, I am no longer surprised what is being imported that operates in the GMRS frequency band, as so many consumer products come into the country with little to no scrutiny.

[WRBU799]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:45 AM, MichaelLAX said:

WoW! That’s incredible that they default to transmitting on 467.625 as a supposed FRS device!

Yup. Someones always going to have one set to channel 1. And it's only a matter of time before someone accidentally hits the "MONITOR" button and starts throwing a carrier. I don't like thinking about how many are out there lying in wait for their moment to shine. 

[WRBU799]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:09 AM, davidrayt said:

I am surprised there isn't more discussion on here about this.  There must be hundreds of 462.625 repeaters around the country that have the same problems.  Or do the 462.625 repeaters just give up and go to another frequency?  Anyway I filed a complaint with the FCC today and I hope you all do also.  And now I am going to go chew out Amazon....

That's something we're trying to avoid. GMRS exploded in our area within the last year or so. So there's pretty much no options for moving as all of the pairs are occupied and, out of respect, we wouldn't want to intrude on other repeater owners. Thank you for making a complaint. Our hope is that if we bombard the FCC enough, we may stem the tide on these.

Here's an example of the situation I found on youtube.

 

[davidrayt]

This post deleted.

[Fire18472]

When I work at night from 2000hrs till 0400hrs I have a HT with me and I hear quite a few long term homes with the constant key up in my travel thru my route in PA

WRBN 575

[MichaelLAX]

On 4/17/2022 at 11:21 AM, WRBU799 said:

Here's an example of the situation I found on youtube.

Is this a video about GMRS jamming or How to Perform a Hollywood Stop (a/k/a California Stop).

At every Stop Sign in the first 8 minutes, watch the lines on the road and he slides through every Stop Sign!! 

Proud to be a Californian!

 

[WRBU799]

Update:
I have been in phone and email contact with an agent from the FCC's Portland office, and they are now beginning to investigate the the issue.