FCC Rules - NOT!

[MikeSD]

I inquired about BTech advertizing. 

 

Background

 

They say in their ads for the GMRS 50X1 that there are 8 "modifiable" channels.  While that is technically correct, you MAY NOT change the frequencies of any of these 8 channels. 

 

I have access to a couple of repeaters that use the same frequency, but with different tones.

 

It's hard to know, sometimes which is which, on the same channel.  So, I wanted to reprogram one of these unused 8 channels, with a duplicate frequency, and store it in one of the 8 unused channels.  BUT the 50X1 cannot be changed.  It keeps reverting back to the original frequency.

 

I asked BTech engineering and they say it's very easy to do by "quick" access to the tone menu.  Well that "quick" access requires a minimum of 8 key strokes on the mic.  Or lots of scrolling from the radio.  They also said the FCC prohibits that.  I believe they are wrong and just using the FCC as an excuse.

 

This is a Memory Channel.  The FCC says nothing about how memory channels can be used or which frequency can go on which memory channel.  I believe the FCC only prohibits the user from selecting a frequency and using it outside the certified limits.  But BTech puts this on the FCC.

 

Solutions

 

Option 1:

They could just make it clear in their advertisement that while the 8 "modifiable" channels are modifiable, the frequency is not.  I think most people reading that would think the frequency would also be modifiable (although ONLY within the repeater frequency options) but it is not.

 

Option 2:

BTech could very easily have "hard coded" channels for the first 30, like they do now.  All parameters that are allowed to be changed can be, like they are now.  Frequencies can't be changed.  For all the rest of the channels, they could be receive only, EXCEPT for copies, of existing hard coded channels.

 

For instance, channels 1-30 are hard coded, you can't change frequencies.  It would be very easy in software, to allow COPIES of these 30, to any of the other channels, and have them modifiable, and allow transmit, WITHOUT allowing the frequency to be changed

 

These other channels would just be pointers to the existing hard coded channels, BUT allow parameters to be modified, per the channel in question.  So, if you copied CH1 to CH40, You could operate channel 40 as it was in CH1, but only be allowed to change parameters per what was allowed in CH1.  This would allow 2 legally hard coded GMRS repeater frequencies, to have different channels, on the same frequency, with different tones.

 

I doubt this would be a violation of the FCC.  Where am I wrong? If I am.  And if I'm right, this would add a very useful feature.

 

Mike

GM

[wayoverthere]

So..I have 50x1 as my 'base' and a wouxun 805g, and a similar situation of 2 repeaters on the same channel. Where the btech makes the first 30 rx/tx and everything beyond rx only, the wouxun allows all the slots to be rx/tx as long as they're in bounds for gmrs. I have the normal 30, 3 local repeaters, then another set of the repeater channels to have extra spots for repeaters when travelling.

 

Btech was also rather unhelpful when I emailed support about what was in this password protected menu that came up. Haven't had Any luck getting into it yet either.

[Mikeam]

Midland is doing the same thing but only allowing1 PL tone in each frequencie as I understand it. Not sure why they did this and the first of the two Btech or Midland to break away with multiple frequencies and dual PL tones could own the market in my eyes! Yes I would have bought one of the two then!!

[AdmiralCochrane]

On the MXT400, you can program all 30 memory channels to the same frequency with 30 different PL's if you wish

[Mikeam]

Will that include 2 PL tones on one frequency??

[MikeSD]

On the MXT400, you can program all 30 memory channels to the same frequency with 30 different PL's if you wish

If that is true, then I'll likely return my BTech, wecause they lied to me. Today I got another reply from BTech saying that the FCC prohibits this.

 

If Midland allows same frequency on multiple channels, with different tones, and is certified, it proves BTech is less than truthful.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Will that include 2 PL tones on one frequency??

 

Only on different memory storage channels.  Each memory storage channel can have only 1 frequency. If you only program in one frequency 30 times, it can have 30 different PL's. 30 PL tones on one frequency if you wish. 

[berkinet]

Will that include 2 PL tones on one frequency??

YES. if you use the programming software and cable discussed elsewhere in there forums. Otherwise, No.

[Shadow471]

Well there's a new mobile coming out. Reviews on the model its based on are very good.

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wouxun-kg-1000g.html?___SID=U

I also read some talk about an MXT400 II. Nothing solid.

 

 

I returned my MXT400 and MXT275 before the return policy expired. Really wish that the MXT275 was WB, everyone noticed the lower RX audio.

I also have the BTECH GMRS-v1. I missed the return date. Oh well, its the loner , if needed.

Due to the fact that you can only RX on teh first 30, I didn't even want to try the GMRS-50x1.

 

I have and mainly travel with the Wouxun KG-805G.

I have about 20-25 saved channels.  3 or so the same Freq, and 2 with split tones.

With the Wouxun having a SuperHet, you can hear the difference side by side on the cleaner received signal.

Trying out the 805G with a KVG VR-P25, 20-30 Watt Digital Amp.  I'm getting the full 30Watts.

Just need to see what kind of receive I get when traveling.

 

Also waiting for the to be released/certified:

https://bettersaferadio.com/bsr-wouxun-kg-uv9g-gmrs-two-way-radio-scanner/

I played with my buddy's KG-UV9P, feels and operates very solidly.

 

Just my limited experience and .02 cents.

 

 

Maybe sometime int he future move to an Icom or Kenwood.

I don't know much about which models are OK for GMRS.

8-)

[rdunajewski]

The rumor I've heard is that there's no FCC rule, but the OET (Office of Engineering and Technology) at the FCC has put out manufacturer guidance about 30-channel limits. These guidelines help a manufacturer determine what will be certified by the OET and what will be rejected.

 

If true, it's a major issue because new GMRS radios are following this "standard" and there's really no justification for it in the Part 95 rules.

[mbrun]

The rumor I've heard is that there's no FCC rule, but the OET (Office of Engineering and Technology) at the FCC has put out manufacturer guidance about 30-channel limits. These guidelines help a manufacturer determine what will be certified by the OET and what will be rejected.

 

If true, it's a major issue because new GMRS radios are following this "standard" and there's really no justification for it in the Part 95 rules.

I am unclear about your statement so I am looking to be clarified. There are 30 Tx frequencies involved in GMRS so that make sense that a GMRS radio would be limited to transmitting on those. Each frequency has a power limit as well so 30-channels of power limits that makes sense too.

 

Please help me understand what I am missing?

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SUPERG900]

The rumor I've heard is that there's no FCC rule, but the OET (Office of Engineering and Technology) at the FCC has put out manufacturer guidance about 30-channel limits. These guidelines help a manufacturer determine what will be certified by the OET and what will be rejected.

 

If true, it's a major issue because new GMRS radios are following this "standard" and there's really no justification for it in the Part 95 rules.

 

Yeah - I think they're (FCC) taking the easy way out.

 

OTOH - there is only 8 possible repeater channels in GMRS, and this sorta negates the need for very many channels, even if all you want to do is merely want to change pl tones.

[wayoverthere]

Yeah - I think they're (FCC) taking the easy way out.

 

OTOH - there is only 8 possible repeater channels in GMRS, and this sorta negates the need for very many channels, even if all you want to do is merely want to change pl tones.

It seems more like a little bit of both sides taking the easy way out....fcc saying "if it's configured like this, fast track for approval", so the manufacturers go with the easy way of passing for approval. Where the wouxun (at least the 805g) is a little more set up for real world usability, not just "the test"

 

Reminds me of something I read about certain cars being geared to minimize shifts needed for 0-60...made for better times (slightly) to hit 60 at the top of 2nd gear. However, for real world driving, that huge gap from 1st to 2nd was a pain, and required winding out 1st to be anywhere near the poweband in 2nd.

[mbrun]

Yeah - I think they're (FCC) taking the easy way out.

 

OTOH - there is only 8 possible repeater channels in GMRS, and this sorta negates the need for very many channels, even if all you want to do is merely want to change pl tones.

I currently think the sweet spot for memories on a GMRS-specific radio is somewhere between 64-128 for the power user; one that travels regularly to different cities and uses the radio in each. Perhaps 32-48 is probably more than sufficient for the average GMRS user. 30 is too few.

 

Michael

WHRS965

KE8PLM

[kirk5056]

It is the limited number of channels on GMRS that makes multiple places to put the same frequency with different PL/DPLs even more important. 

 

I find it very frustrating to have to manually re-program my radio just to change PLs.  If the channel I use at home uses GRMS 7 with PL 162.2 but a jeep group I sometimes ride with uses GMRS 7 with another PL then I have to stop on my trip up north to re-program the different PL.  

 

I think it is the thousands of channels (frequency plus PL/DPL) available on GMRS that gives GMRS such a  powerful potential.

 

Kirk 

WRHS673

[Wristlock]

My B-Tech GMRS V1 claims that with software the 8 repeater channel slots can be setup for any repeater frequencies.

But being limited to 8 repeaters is limiting for some people.

 

B-Tech was good for the consumer GMRS market because they showed that there was a lot of demand for that type of radio.

However, they didn't quite understand how GMRS is used by folks that are past the bubble pack radios.

 

The Wouxun 805 handheld and the new 1000 mobile are probably the best for the power users.

[NCRick]

Interesting read for a new person such as I.  I'll comment that as a Bow-fang, MXT400 and Wouxun 805g owner, the feature-set of the 805g is perfect for what I want.  With the software and cable I have, the radio was super easy to configure for me and is set for all the normal channels (including repeater channels) and several other "extra" channels I customized as copies of the repeater channels but with the tones I want and a corespondent NAME label which is intuitively recognized by me.  Separate tones are easy as can be.  There is nothing confusing nor anything exotic.  Once programmed for our use, my wife or anyone else can pick it up and use it.  If my midland MXT400 had that functionality it would be fantastic.  The other CCR has way to many bells, whistles and associated buttons, displays and who-haas for me to remember when I'm doing anything.  I just don't like it but it's fine I suppose (it's a "part 0" radio anyhow).

 

I'll be checking into the midland software.  If it is certified for one company it should be certifiable for another. 

[Extreme]

Pretty much my thoughts on the 805G. Named repeaters, front panel prog for the most part, and simplicity of single band. Reach local repeaters with factory antenna and work well off-road simplex.

Still like my TK-3170 and the new Retvis 76 is ok also, but dual band takes some getting used to.. great price and good performance so far, but had fixed antenna. Will likely hand off to young grandsons for off-road use.

 

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[WRJZ943]

The MXT400 (with software/cable) will allow you to setup split tones. There are also 7 blank channels (8-14) that can be programmed with GMRS legal channels. I've used a few of them to add duplicate repeater channels that have different tones as well as a simplex channel with a pl tone that my immediate family uses. I also like the fact I could rename the channels.