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How close is too close (repeater)


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#1 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:23 AM

My kids have a 50w Wouxun KG-1000G in their treehouse with a J-pole mounted about 30' above the ground in the back yard. They talk to their school friends within a mile or so and also one that's about 6 miles away. The friends have everything from bubble pack walkies to UV-5R's. The problem is we can't hear their friends calling from our UV-5R inside our house, so they don't know they are calling or to go to the treehouse and chat. Obviously we can communicate with the treehouse just fine from inside the house as it's only about 70-80' away.

So I was thinking about getting another KG-1000 and setting up a repeater up there so they can hear inside the house as well as let the friends far apart from each other talk who currently can't get each other (we are centrally located on a hill). I know the bubble packs won't work on the repeater.

I worry though that we might have issues with them talking in and around the yard/woods so close to the repeater. Should this be a concern? You know kids--they will stare at each other from 20' away and talk to each other on the radios. There are repeaters in the area, but I don't think they would appreciate hearing a bunch of 8 yr old chatting about Pokemon.

The other direction I'm hoping to avoid is an external antenna on the house. I don't want to run cable or drill holes in the house. Thanks in advance!

#2 kb2ztx

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 09:40 AM

UV-5R is not type accepted on GMRS.

 

That said its a low power unit and your antenna is not the best. 

 

There is more to a repeater than just buying a second mobile. For what your describing it may be useful to look at the Retevis portable repeater. With a decent antenna and short piece of cable it would help you do what you want without getting into building a repeater.

 

https://shop.mygmrs....m_campaign=rt97

 

Spend your money on antenna and line as thats really where the rubber hits the road. 

 

As said bubble pack radios wont work with the repeater but there are a few cheaper radios for kids that do GMRS. 



#3 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 10:24 AM

Great, thanks! I'll check out the link. I know I'd need a Duplexer as well for the extra KG-1000 idea but I thought that J-pole was pretty good? I'm not stuck on anything though. Any comments on it not working well in very close proximity the repeater?

And I understand the lack of part 95 about the UV-5R's. If that's a touchy subject on this board, I'll mind my P's & Q's reference that. Thanks again for the feedback!

#4 BoxCar

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 12:15 PM

There's nothing wrong about a J-Pole. They work, and work well but there are better options with other antennas that offer gain which a J-Pole doesn't.


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Old and wise infers you were once young and stupid


#5 kb2ztx

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 01:48 PM

I would lean toward the Laird antenna. Sorry I don't mean to say the jpole is junk but lets face it they are built in some guys basement with no real test gear. If you want performance you pay a little more for good stuff. Using a Jpole on a repeater isn't going to help when you said you cant talk now. 

 

By the time you buy the duplexer, and another KG1000 you may be close to the cost of the Retevis. Spend a bit more on a good antenna and some decent feedline and you should have a good setup for local area. You may even upgrade the antenna and feedline and find the current radio is fine (other than needing to be at the radio.)



#6 Blackmar401

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:37 PM

Why not just set up a decent antenna on the house with a base inside. I get not wanting to drill holes but you would only need one hole for your coax. I just build a wooden shelf inside my kitchen cabinet. The power supply sits on the bottom then my base is on the top portion with a 2.5" hole directly under the speaker. I actually installed an electrical box and just made a hole in a blank faceplate but thats really not necessarily, you could just make a line size hole straight through and use silicone around it. If you own the house why not customize it to your liking. My antenna is attached to the side of the house and sits at around 30', this allowed me to use a 30' run of lmr400 to minimize signal loss.
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#7 mainehazmt

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:44 PM

You could always run the coax thru the soffit.


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#8 Boomer_Actual

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:33 PM

If you are still using the rubber duck that came with the UV-5R, it is no wonder you can't pick anything up from a distance. Baofeng rubber ducks are notoriously poor antennae. I have two aftermarket antennae. One is an Abree 48cm and the other is a Nagoya NA-701C. With the Abree, I have recieved GMRS HT signals from nearly 15 miles away. The Nagoya is not quite that good, but I have recieved HT signals from a little over 5 miles away in the flatlands.


My wife told me I needed to communicate better. So I got my license and bought a transceiver.


#9 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 08:06 AM

I have both NA-701C and the 771 on different UV-5R's and usually set them in the window facing their friend's houses.  I honestly haven't really noticed a difference with the antennas, but I believe it's there.  

 

You guys have me thinking more about an antenna on the roof of the house.  One thing I was thinking is I don't really want the kids hanging out inside the house chatting.  I want them to go out to their treehouse.  I spent some coin and a good chunk of my coronacation working on it, so they better use it!  :D   That has me focusing on them receiving the signal in the house then heading out to chat to their friends.  I saw in another thread where people were using mobile antennas in the attic or roll ups hanging in a window.  Thoughts?  Our laundry room is built in a bump out in the garage, and there is an "attic" above the garage.  The laundry room would be the ideal place for me to leave a radio on full time.  They'd be able to hear it on the main floor during the day, but it wouldn't disturb anybody at night if it makes noise plus I don't mind poking a hole in that ceiling.  It could give me an excuse to buy a better antenna for the treehouse and mount the J-pole up there.  I also have the little tiny baby antenna that came with my MXT275 I could put throw on a cookie sheet up there and wouldn't even need to buy anything, but I'm not sure that would even be an improvement.  

 

On a side note, I discovered the KG-1000 can monitor ATC freqs which are VHF AM.  This matters greatly to me because I'm a controller.  My kids were loosing their minds listening to me from work.  They are now asking me to send airplanes over the house lol.



#10 JohnE

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 08:18 AM

mobile to base antenna conversion

https://www.pctel.co...ation-adapters/


Powered by Kenwood, Motorola, Cresend, Milcom and Henry


#11 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 04:55 PM

So you guys have me reevaluating things a bit. I'm now thinking of slapping the J-pole in the attic above the garage and running it into the laundry room bump-out built in to the garage, then leaving a HT plugged in to it so they can hear their friends calling and head to the treehouse. I'm not concerned at all with the transmit capability of that one. Does the gain of an antenna matter at all for RX? I understand TX.

This will give me and excuse to upgrade the antenna/cable/mast on the treehouse. I was thinking of those military surplus aluminum poles to make a mast mounted to the side of the structure that goes up about 20'-25'. I hear you guys always talking about how PL-259 connectors suck. I live in a slightly hilly area but on the top of a small hill. What antenna and connector/cable would you guys choose if cost wasn't a factor (within reason)? Would you recommend a different idea for a mast?

https://photos.app.g...um57fLbax3ZmQ99

Not sure how to embed images.

#12 mbrun

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:05 PM

...Does the gain of an antenna matter at all for RX? I understand TX.


The gain and coverage pattern of an antenna is equally applicable to transmit and receive. For example. If you add 6dB of gain in one direction for transmit, your receive signal from the exact same direction will also increase by 6dB.


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#13 MacJack

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:58 PM

Would a DB-404 be an antenna for a repeater?

Jack

There's nothing wrong about a J-Pole. They work, and work well but there are better options with other antennas that offer gain which a J-Pole doesn't.



#14 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 07:21 PM

I may have caused confusion by not starting a new thread, sorry. I've shelved the repeater idea for the moment. Thinking of moving the J-pole to the house to connect to a HT for mostly receive duty, then upgrading the KG1000 in the treehouse with a much better antenna, cable, and mast for max range for simplex comms.

#15 WRCY896

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 08:06 PM

Why not just get a UHF scanner and put it in the house?

#16 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 09:07 PM

Because to get a signal in the house regardless of scanner or radio, I need to get an antenna up and out. Plus I already have several UV5R's that will receive just fine with bonus point for being able to transmit to the kids playing in the yard or wherever.

And thanks for the info info on rx gain mrbun.

#17 SkylinesSuck

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 09:10 PM

Would a DB-404 be an antenna for a repeater?
Jack


I just looked that up. I was thinking $150-$300, not $1000 lol.

#18 kb2ztx

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Posted Yesterday, 06:21 AM

Would a DB-404 be an antenna for a repeater?

Jack

DB404 is a base radio antenna. Can be used in repeater or base configuration. I have one on my home base as well as 2 of the 4 repeaters I have online. Its a rock solid antenna and will suite a hobbiest for life.



#19 kb2ztx

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Posted Yesterday, 06:22 AM

I just looked that up. I was thinking $150-$300, not $1000 lol.

 

Nots sure where you got $1000. Use antenna farm for $399. I have gotten mine cheaper but thru a dealer.

 

https://www.theanten...6xoCvx8QAvD_BwE



#20 SkylinesSuck

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Posted Yesterday, 04:56 PM

Nots sure where you got $1000. Use antenna farm for $399. I have gotten mine cheaper but thru a dealer.

https://www.theanten...6xoCvx8QAvD_BwE

Thanks for the link. Is there a DB404 and a DB404B? Maybe I found the wrong one originally.




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