Dual watch with HAM?

[PartsMan]

I have a gm-30 with dual watch on order that should be here tomorrow.

I was thinking. It is able to scan some ham frequencies.

If my friend who is a ham can listen to gmrs frequencies

is there any reason we cannot communicate using two different frequencies?

I legally transmit gmrs and he listens.

He legally transmits on ham and I listen.

[BoxCar]

The only Part 97 transmissions allowed with no identified receiving station are CW and test messages.

[marcspaz]

We do that all the time in the Ham world when we speak to people is some other countries.  US amateurs may not be licensed to transmit on frequencies other nations can, and vice versa.  So, we transmit on a frequency we can legally use, announce what nation we are calling and what frequency we are listening to (a frequency they are licensed to transmit on).

I would do the same thing on GMRS.  For example "This is WRBY328 calling N1BED, listening on 446 MHz."

[marcspaz]

2 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

The only Part 97 transmissions allowed with no identified receiving station are CW and test messages.

 

I've never done it with GMRS, but if we use the example I noted, could we not do it that way since we are identifying who we are talking to and what frequencies are in use?

I genuinely don't know.  I haven't really looked into it.

 

[BoxCar]

4 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

I've never done it with GMRS, but if we use the example I noted, could we not do it that way since we are identifying who we are talking to and what frequencies are in use?

I genuinely don't know.  I haven't really looked into it.

 

IIRC, international traffic is specifically mentioned in the rules as being permitted but there is no mention of domestic traffic between services. I have a feeling the FCC would frown on it and the ham is subject to contact by a volunteer monitor about questionable operation.

[PartsMan]

So we are talking a serious gray area. Possibly not quite legal.

[tweiss3]

15 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

We do that all the time in the Ham world when we speak to people is some other countries.  US amateurs may not be licensed to transmit on frequencies other nations can, and vice versa.  So, we transmit on a frequency we can legally use, announce what nation we are calling and what frequency we are listening to (a frequency they are licensed to transmit on).

I would do the same thing on GMRS.  For example "This is WRBY328 calling N1BED, listening on 446 MHz."

This is different, as its still the same "service".

[marcspaz]

@PartsMan BoxCar and tweiss3 bring up some good points.  It may be worth sending an email to the FCC requesting clarification.   The division called Wireless Telecommunications has a customer support email addresses and phone numbers.

 

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless-telecommunications

[AdmiralCochrane]

Not the way English Common Law works.  Something has to be prohibited.  If its not specifically mentioned, its allowed.  Grey areas come about when the prohibiting language is unclear, not when it is omitted. 

[MichaelLAX]

43 minutes ago, PartsMan said:

If my friend who is a ham can listen to gmrs frequencies

is there any reason we cannot communicate using two different frequencies?

I legally transmit gmrs and he listens.

He legally transmits on ham and I listen.

I think this falls under the Common Law rule:

Quote

How do they know?!?

I once tried an experiment where I transmitted on 2 meters and the responding party transmitted on MURS!

Sounds like fun to ME!

[marcspaz]

Well, part of the reason why I think it may be allowed (would still seek clarification from FCC) is because the rules say that one-way communications is prohibited except for limited exceptions, and then they list exceptions of which this case type is not listed.  That would mean its prohibited.  The loophole could be, its not one-way communications. It's two-way communications.

That said, the enforcement division of FCC may not agree that two-way communications across services is legally considered two-way communications.

[wrci350]

(I'm cutting out all the subpoints that are not relevant.)

 

§ 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses.

(a) In addition to the prohibited uses outlined in § 95.333 of this chapter, GMRS stations must not communicate:

...

(9) Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the Amateur Radio Service, to any unauthorized station, or to any foreign station;

 

So I think the answer is, 'No, you cannot do that'.

[marcspaz]

@wrci350  Great find!

[axorlov]

In addition to that,  stations in Amateur Service are only allowed to communicate with stations in Amateur Service, with very few exceptions (97.111); one way transmissions are specifically prohibited, with very few exceptions (97.111b and 97.113b).

[PartsMan]

Sounds like a no go. The whole reason I asked was because I had a feeling the FCC would frown on it.

I guess the hardware would do it in an emergency.

 

[marcspaz]

12 minutes ago, PartsMan said:

I guess the hardware would do it in an emergency.

 

 

Thankfully the rule makers were smart enough to say (paraphrasing) "in an emergency, forget everything you just read."  LOL

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

 

Thankfully the rule makers were smart enough to say (paraphrasing) "in an emergency, forget everything you just read."  LOL

I believe that goes for “testing” too. 

[MichaelLAX]

2 hours ago, axorlov said:

In addition to that,  stations in Amateur Service are only allowed to communicate with stations in Amateur Service, with very few exceptions (97.111); one way transmissions are specifically prohibited, with very few exceptions (97.111b and 97.113b).

Whatever other rule might prohibit the communication cited in the OP’s example, it is not a “one-way” communication. 

[axorlov]

20 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

it is not a “one-way” communication

FCC added it to cover: "Cool, but let's pretend I'm not communicating with the other service, I'm just blabbering out loud. And the other party too. Not a two-way, no no no. We are in a different services, sheesh!". I would guess whoever worded that rule first time had an experience.

 

[MichaelLAX]

It's like sex: if you have a one-way conversation; you'll go blind! 

[n4gix]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:04 PM, MichaelLAX said:

It's like sex: if you have a one-way conversation; you'll go blind! 

I've always heard that you'd get hair on the palms of your hand... 

[Coffeemaker]

It would sure sound prohibited, but stupidly so.  I suppose, in an emergency, after tornadoes, etc. You might well get by with its listening on a shortwave receiver and transmitting on GMRS.  Prolly hard to make that hook-up. 

[MichaelLAX]

A radio buddy with both GMRS and Tech Ham, is getting the Quad Band TYT mobile radio that includes 10 Meters and I am going to try to figure out a way we can cross communicate on 10 Meters so he can learn some Morse Code!