GMRS Real World Emergency Communication Experience?

[ldcarson]

Perhaps the rumored Tesla Cellphone with starling embedded.  Should be able to go anywhere and have signal…

[Over2U]

FYI: Search and Rescue groups in the State of Wyoming are promoting the “Be 307 Aware” campaign for emergency use of FRS/GMRS Radios. Below are some details:
 

 

In Wyoming, people frequently need the assistance of Search and Rescue. No matter how small or large the situation might be, Search and Rescue volunteers are there to help get people home safely.

Here are some steps you can take to increase your chances of being rescued.

• Buy an FRS/GMRS capable radio or walkie talkie and program the 307 channel into the radio. Program to UHF 462.6125 Privacy Code 85.4 or Channel 3 and Privacy code 07 (307).

• If, or when, you become stranded, if searchers are looking for you they can attempt to contact you on this channel. It is not a 911 type channel.

• Always tell someone where you are going and when you plan on coming back. Ask local authorities if a check-in form is available.

• Pack appropriate gear and supplies. See resource link below.

• Have a portable radio and have it programmed to the 307 Channel.

• This channel is not a 911, but it can assist you when monitored by Search and Rescue personnel.

• Check the weather and avalanche forecast.

• Search and Rescue personnel will not actively monitor channel.

[marcspaz]

I commend them for the effort, but don't they realize that using privacy code (PL tone squelch) reduces your ability to successfully make contact? 

[Lscott]

32 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

I commend them for the effort, but don't they realize that using privacy code (PL tone squelch) reduces your ability to successfully make contact? 

You have a point. However if that channel is used for normally everyday type of communications the SAR team would have to monitor the radio every time the squelch opened to see if it was emergency traffic.

Of course if somebody forgot to program in the right code, or no code, they would be SOL. When an emergency strikes is NOT the time to figure out how to program your radio.

[kirk5056]

I disagree with the assumption that PL filters "reduces your ability to successfully make contact".  If I lived in an area that had a distress channel I would dedicate a radio to that channel, but only if there was a PL filter so I would not have to listen to kids calling their teddy bear.

If my dedicated radio made ANY noise (with the filter in place) then I would have a high likely hood of it being an actual distress call. 

[BoxCar]

None of my radios have numbers assigned to tones so privacy code 07 means absolutely nothing to me. There is no assurance that a manufacturer would assign the same tone to a code number so a value of 7 could be almost any tone that would be compatible with only their radios. GMRS/FRS still isn't popular enough that a significant number of people would even carry the radios or know how to set a code in the first place. CTCSS codes are something I set using a computer for specific repeaters and wouldn't even begin to fumble my way through a menu on a screen or voice prompt to try to set. No, using or requiring a code on a channel for emergency purposes isn't a good practice in my estimation. Perhaps something such as calling on the 7's would be a better solution, as there would be 6 specific times for beginning a call that would (and should) change to a different channel.

[wayoverthere]

33 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

None of my radios have numbers assigned to tones so privacy code 07 means absolutely nothing to me. There is no assurance that a manufacturer would assign the same tone to a code number so a value of 7 could be almost any tone that would be compatible with only their radios. GMRS/FRS still isn't popular enough that a significant number of people would even carry the radios or know how to set a code in the first place. CTCSS codes are something I set using a computer for specific repeaters and wouldn't even begin to fumble my way through a menu on a screen or voice prompt to try to set. No, using or requiring a code on a channel for emergency purposes isn't a good practice in my estimation. Perhaps something such as calling on the 7's would be a better solution, as there would be 6 specific times for beginning a call that would (and should) change to a different channel.

To be fair, from what @over2u showed, it's presented both in terms of the raw tone, and the corresponding code number that's used by one of the more common manufacturers. it does also tie with what @lscott mentioned about setting things up ahead of time.l, rather than trying to fumble through it in the time of need. It also does mention it's not intended as a 911-type channel, more for SAR to be able to contact the person they're looking for.

[PACNWComms]

5 hours ago, Over2U said:

Buy an FRS/GMRS capable radio or walkie talkie and program the 307 channel into the radio. Program to UHF 462.6125 Privacy Code 85.4 or Channel 3 and Privacy code 07 (307).

I used to live in Wyoming, and know how it can be dangerous, even if prepared. +1 on what marcspaz mentioned about squelch......I always find it laughable when these campaigns push procedure or policy over something completely different, such as the fact that the area code for Wyoming is "307" so they are pushing radio procedure based upon that. This is like the three percenters and their 3-3-3 radio usage recommendations. Anything may be better than nothing, but I am seeing why in my part of the country, we just use FRS Channel 1 and no CTCSS tones. 

[PACNWComms]

1 hour ago, BoxCar said:

GMRS/FRS still isn't popular enough that a significant number of people would even carry the radios or know how to set a code in the first place.

I am in total agreement on this, and especially for a very low population density state like Wyoming. You may have better luck with AM CB in that part of the country. That was how I made contact with several people in trouble near Cheyenne, and that was pre-2017 when most blister pack radios were FRS/GMRS. The push for specific tones, channels and usage needs to be utterly simple. 

[Lscott]

The only problem with standards is there are so many of them.

It seems one of the issues is there is no common protocol to use. I've read about several on this forum alone. There is even one used in the Ham world I haven't seen mentioned yet. A number of posts in other forums claim they didn't have much luck with this one either.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amateur radio Wilderness Protocol

The Wilderness Protocol recommends that those stations able to do so should monitor the primary (and secondary, if possible) frequency every three hours starting at 7 AM, local time, for 5 minutes starting at the top of every hour, or even continuously.

The Wilderness Protocol is now included in both the ARRL ARES Field Resources Manual^[2] and the ARES Emergency Resources Manual. Per the manual, the protocol is:

The Wilderness protocol (see page 101, August 1995 QST) calls for hams in the wilderness to announce their presence on, and to monitor, the national calling frequencies for five minutes beginning at the top of the hour, every three hours from 7 AM to 7 PM while in the back country. A ham in a remote location may be able to relay emergency information through another wilderness ham who has better access to a repeater. National calling frequencies: 52.525, 146.52, 223.50, 446.00, 1294.50 MHz.

Priority transmissions should begin with the LITZ (Long Interval Tone Zero or Long Time Zero) DTMF signal for at least 5 seconds. CQ like calls (to see who is out there) should not take place until after 4 minutes after the hour.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Public Service/ARES/ARESFieldResourcesManual_rev10-2019.pdf

People buy a radio and some batteries then stick them in a drawer. The only time they get used is when either the roof comes off or they need a boat to leave the house.

One point to consider is the person who knows how to use the radio in a group might be the one who desperately needs help and unable to use it. 

Reading through a few posts on other forums some suggested getting one or more of the personal locator beacons.

https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

Anybody have any experience with these? I think these are simple enough even a kid should have little trouble activating one.

 

[PACNWComms]

21 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Reading through a few posts on other forums some suggested getting one or more of the personal locator beacons.

https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

Anybody have any experience with these? I think these are simple enough even a kid should have little trouble activating one.

Working for the oil industry, and marine side of that industry, I have worked with these for many years. These have also changed frequency, so there may be a lot of them on the used market in the older frequencies. I would stick with Garmin and consumer GPS and satellite based beacons, leave the dedicated maritime ones to maritime use. They are easy to use, as it is expected that when they are used, the vessel is on fire, sinking, or there is an abandon ship scenario taking place.

[Lscott]

2 minutes ago, PACNWComms said:

Working for the oil industry, and marine side of that industry, I have worked with these for many years. These have also changed frequency, so there may be a lot of them on the used market in the older frequencies. I would stick with Garmin and consumer GPS and satellite based beacons, leave the dedicated maritime ones to maritime use. They are easy to use, as it is expected that when they are used, the vessel is on fire, sinking, or there is an abandon ship scenario taking place.

What about using one of them on land? I see mention of people hiking in the mountains, dense woods etc. This might be cheaper than getting a sat-phone.

On the page I linked to there is mention of the personal locator beacons. That's what I was questioning.

There is a site to register your beacon at too.

https://beaconregistration.noaa.gov/RGDB/index

FAQ:

https://beaconregistration.noaa.gov/RGDB/faq;jsessionid=Y1oYUxo-1elXXc4a0aJlKBO6iH73QLsG8FXfQ7Dh.jboss-ops-two

 

https://www.hiking-for-her.com/personal-locator-beacons.html

[WROZ250]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:07 PM, marcspaz said:

It reminded me of an old CB, too.  There was just a channel dial, volume/on/off and a squelch.  White plastic body and the face where the controls were had a slight angle so it was easy to see the channel selector while standing at the wheel. 

I am very glad I had the radio and my grandfather taught me how to use and maintain it.  On an open vessel on salt water, there is a lot of different maintenance needed. compared to a land mobile or base station.

Sounds like maybe you're describing the old Motorola Modar, a VHF marine radio.
 

[PACNWComms]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

What about using one of them on land? I see mention of people hiking in the mountains, dense woods etc. This might be cheaper than getting a sat-phone.

On the page I linked to there is mention of the personal locator beacons. That's what I was questioning.

The land based ones are a great idea. Although when pricing the ones listed the Garmin unit fit my needs better, size and price wise. To each his own in this regard. The beacons are cheaper when compared to satellite phones, and some even have text message capability when tethered to a cell phone.

My comment was to caution the use of the marine ones, as I know people that have boats, I am near many waterways, and many old spectrum/frequency beacons have proliferated the used market. I know some people that have bought the marine models used and think they are safer now, but they are on legacy systems that are not even monitored in some cases. A marine VHF with Digital Selective Calling (DSC) would be more useful in those cases on their vessel, and a Garmin beacon when hiking or skiing on land, but they just do not know how technology works.....so ignorance can be a problem. I have used the ACR beacons, and had to send some back to the manufacturer when information needed to be changed, some models have to be factory reset before re-programming.

 

[WRPD494]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

What about using one of them on land? I see mention of people hiking in the mountains, dense woods etc. This might be cheaper than getting a sat-phone.

https://www.hiking-for-her.com/personal-locator-beacons.html

Hiking, camping and ADV motorcycling, I carry an older (Gen 2 I think) Spot device. Dirt simple, and mine allows me to send "wellness" messages in pre-programed buttons:  ie. All is well, and I have stopped for the day, all is well.  Then of course the SHTF send help buttons.   New models permit the texting of messages as well, which would have been handy this past June (2021) when I had the opportunity to press the big red button. 

On a week-long ADV ride, we were WTFOT (way the he'll out there) came upon another ADV group who had a rider down. Had gone off the trail, bike was approx 20' down, off the side against a tree and the rider just past the bike, further down the slope.    They had just pulled the rider up (thankfully turns out only broken wrist and several broken ribs, no head or spinal - he was ATGATT fortunately saved him from worse), but none of the group had a SPOT/Garmin/sat phone, etc.

No one had yet ridden for help/get in cell range, and because the rider was older and in pain, I pulled out the SPOT and "called".    So what happens with this older device, and my plan, the SPOT sends the signal, the company engages the worldwide coord center who then contacted my wife and my m-i-l (per my contact plan) who let the coord center know I was on a motorcycle backcountry trip.  Coord center then figured out which responding agencies were closest to my location and contacted the sheriff and EMS with the basic details.   Now - this takes a little time... and it took time for the responding deputy and the EMS to arrive onsite (basically a jeep trail way the ___ up a mountain). 

Dude was eval'd, transported, and as I learned later all his gear got him through falling off a mountain and banging into some trees, with the above noted minor injuries.

So....   wife was bugging out!!! She didn't know what had happened, was it me, was it my riding buddy... was I already in the hereafter....  it wasn't until I got down the mountain and then finally into cell range that I could call her.    So...

I didn't realize at the time I could "cancel" the emergency beacon, and then send the "all is well", still not 100% if that would have called off the sheriff/EMS though... but until I upgrade device and plan, worked out with the wife a plan for how to use device in a similar situ.    But, I would def invest in more modern Spot or Garmin that grants you some options and I think all the currently available new devices permit do that these days (and spare your wife some anxious hours, or from plotting anew how to spend the insurance $$$).

The SPOT/Garmin are very lightweight, easy to figure out if someone comes across your mangled body and needs to call on your behalf, and honestly are cheap enough (with a plan) that compared to the alternatives are more than worth the costs.    Because we were traveling "light" I had not packed a HT this trip (Am Radio, only very recently GRMS'd) but likely worth having multiple options because Murphy.

Hope this helps!   More to the story... but pertinent to the topic, I covered the needful.

 

[fremont]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:45 AM, PACNWComms said:

there are also Coast Guard stations in Port Angeles and Neah Bay, with listening stations that monitor for radio traffic. 

 

Interesting post/thread.  In addition to the typical marine VHF channels like 16, do they monitor FRS Ch 1?  Any GMRS repeater channels or other FRS/GMRS?

[fremont]

5 hours ago, Lscott said:

The only problem with standards is there are so many of them.

It seems one of the issues is there is no common protocol to use. I've read about several on this forum alone. There is even one used in the Ham world I haven't seen mentioned yet. A number of posts in other forums claim they didn't have much luck with this one either.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amateur radio Wilderness Protocol

 

 

I was not aware it was on other bands vs simply 146.52.  Good to know.

[fremont]

On 1/25/2022 at 7:56 AM, Over2U said:

In Wyoming, people frequently need the assistance of Search and Rescue. No matter how small or large the situation might be, Search and Rescue volunteers are there to help get people home safely.

Here are some steps you can take to increase your chances of being rescued.

• Buy an FRS/GMRS capable radio or walkie talkie and program the 307 channel into the radio. Program to UHF 462.6125 Privacy Code 85.4 or Channel 3 and Privacy code 07 (307).

•  

I'm familiar with a local backcountry skiing group that coordinates not a SAR effort, but a way for each other to communicate around who's there, what their plans are, etc.  All are on FRS channels 1-7 and use PL 85.4.  The sponsoring organization makes a big point around how it is NOT a monitored channel.  I believe this particular program was patterned from this initiative in Telluride.

[PACNWComms]

47 minutes ago, fremont said:

In addition to the typical marine VHF channels like 16, do they monitor FRS Ch 1?  Any GMRS repeater channels or other FRS/GMRS?

Port Angeles to Neah Bay (locations of two coast Guard stations) there is an agreement to monitor VHF Marine Channel 16, but no formalized agreement on FRS Channel 1, but they also understand that there was a push for FRS Channel 1 in this area, so many carry Garmin Rino radios and do monitor. There is no legal binding agreement, only state, county, tribal type of interop as many people do carry FRS/GMRS gear when going into the wilderness. The remote listening stations, JPS Communications/Interoperability/Raytheon based equipment is also programmed to listen to FRS/GMRS, but that also includes software defined equipment that monitors pretty much everything HF to SHF, excepting DTR frequency hoppers.

Some of my time in the military was spent in signals intelligence and spectrum management, and there are many technology capabilities that may not be advertised, and may also only exist in limited capacity and locations. There are places that are still rural with zero realistic coverage. Only something like Echelon type collection would take place, if someone was looking for you. Much of the West Coast states have also included radio direction finding capability in their more popular state parks, where being able to track a line/direction to a possibly lost person is expected. 

Many may not realize that public safety grade radio infrastructure, P25 radio systems, operate much like cell phones where the radios and the infrastructure know of each others location and status, so signals can be properly handed off between sites. This results in inherent tracking capability, even if it must be done somewhat "manually" digging for which site a radio is subscribed to, and via specific radio ID. FRS/GMRS lacks this ID in many cases, so listening stations can only give a frequency, signal strength and direction, which may still be helpful in a search.

[marcspaz]

4 hours ago, WROZ250 said:

Sounds like maybe you're describing the old Motorola Modar, a VHF marine radio.
 

 

 

Wonderful find!!!  Yes, that looks like what I remember!

[alanrt]

Since 2020, our Ham/GMRS Neighborhood Radio Watch groups here in El Dorado County have been active during several fires including the Caldor Fire, and most recently during the recent 2021/2022 "Snowmageddon" that took down power lines, closed roads and disabled cell and Internet service in half of the county. 

[axorlov]

8 hours ago, alanrt said:

Since 2020, our Ham/GMRS Neighborhood Radio Watch groups here in El Dorado County have been active during several fires including the Caldor Fire, and most recently during the recent 2021/2022 "Snowmageddon" that took down power lines, closed roads and disabled cell and Internet service in half of the county. 

I'd be interested to know what your group (and others) did during the fire and snow events. What kind of help, or activity, or coordination was done. Water, food, help with evacuation?

[marcspaz]

9 hours ago, alanrt said:

Since 2020, our Ham/GMRS Neighborhood Radio Watch groups here in El Dorado County have been active during several fires including the Caldor Fire, and most recently during the recent 2021/2022 "Snowmageddon" that took down power lines, closed roads and disabled cell and Internet service in half of the county. 

 

I read your other post about getting hundreds of HT's out to the communities, the 5 area repeaters and the great action/communications plan.  That is a winning combo.  I wish more communities would follow your lead.  Fantastic. 

[Over2U]

My only “real world” experience was the time that I (and at least one other GMRS user) heard a call for help from a man who said he was in an overturned Jeep in the mountains, many miles away. When I replied to the caller, he said that he couldn’t remember his name, or the that of the trail he was on, or much of anything else. The transmission was also strong, as though near me in the city, which made me suspicious that I was being ‘Pranked’, but, nonetheless, I felt compelled to call this in to 9-1-1 on my cellphone. I never heard any more about this.