WROZ873 Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 I’m new to GMRS and have my license and recently got the KG-935G. I got permission from the repeater owner and have entered the correct tones. I get a receive status signal but without sound. The repeater uses RPT-21 frequency and is about 80miles away. There are other several repeaters in the area to me that are much closer and some one that is linked. Steps I took were, 1) dialed to RPT-21 2) add channel 3) entered tones 4) named channel Quote
OffRoaderX Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 It may be that the repeater uses "reverse burst" so you may not hear the kick-back..but to be sure, try removing your RX tone (which is optional anyway). If you still aren't hearing anyone talking then you might be out of range. 80 miles is a stretch. WROZ250 1 Quote
gortex2 Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 Your never going to talk to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT.... WROZ250 1 Quote
WROZ250 Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, gortex2 said: Your never going to talk to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT.... And even if you can hear the repeater, at 80 miles you are simply not going to access it with a 5W HT and a duck. Doubtful you could even bring it up with a directional gain antenna (not necessarily impossible, but...) Also, as OffroaderX noted, some repeaters use 'reverse burst' which causes your radio to quickly mute and, not all repeaters use a hang time/tail (dead air after a user unkeys), so again, even of you were in range, you might not hear anything when you unkey. Quote
OffRoaderX Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, gortex2 said: Your never going to talk to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT.... I've talked to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT. marcspaz 1 Quote
marcspaz Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 50 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said: I've talked to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT. Same here. I was on Skyline Drive using a 5w HT and talked 82+ miles to a repeater in Woodbridge VA. Quote
WROZ250 Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 There are always exceptions when it comes to range. I can go up on the mountain down the road and probably hit a ton or repeaters with a 5W HT (and the duck antenna) some nearly 100 miles away. That said, just because there are exceptions that doesn't make it the norm. Typical 5W HT range with the duck antenna is at most, 8-10 miles. Again, there are terrain issues and other factors that can make or break a path between a base/repeater and an HT. Just saying... Quote
WROZ873 Posted January 28, 2022 Author Report Posted January 28, 2022 3 hours ago, OffRoaderX said: It may be that the repeater uses "reverse burst" so you may not hear the kick-back..but to be sure, try removing your RX tone (which is optional anyway). If you still aren't hearing anyone talking then you might be out of range. 80 miles is a stretch. Thank you, I knew 80 miles may be a stretch. I’ll try removing the Rx. I also have a Nagoya 771g antenna currently. Quote
MichaelLAX Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 Buy a CCR for about $30, program it to this repeater and drive out towards the repeater with both HTs and a family member. When you get within the assurred reception zone, drop off the family member with the CCR and drive a few miles away and see if you can communicate with your family member through the repeater. If it doesn’t work in close range, something is not set correctly or the repeater is not active. When you head home, don’t forget to pick up the family member! Which Wisconsin repeater are you trying to access (Madison 700)? Quote
MichaelLAX Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 If you are in Milwaukee, why is your first attempt to a repeater 80 miles away? Why not try one of the closer repeaters, like this one: Quote
marcspaz Posted January 28, 2022 Report Posted January 28, 2022 5 hours ago, WROZ250 said: There are always exceptions when it comes to range. I can go up on the mountain down the road and probably hit a ton or repeaters with a 5W HT (and the duck antenna) some nearly 100 miles away. That said, just because there are exceptions that doesn't make it the norm. Typical 5W HT range with the duck antenna is at most, 8-10 miles. Again, there are terrain issues and other factors that can make or break a path between a base/repeater and an HT. Just saying... I have to 100% disagree with almost all of this. LoL There is no rule, exception or most. There is only science and fact. The fact of the science is, this is a UHF line of sight service of which range is strictly limited to line of sight and RF interference or lack Thereof. When someone speaks in absolutes with words like "always" or "never", and someone provides and examples of how their statement is incorrect, it's somewhat disingenuous to move the goalpost by throwing the "exception" flag. What is the exception for someone who lives in the city is the norm for someone who lives in the mountains. Duck218, SteveShannon and MichaelLAX 2 1 Quote
OffRoaderX Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 8 hours ago, gortex2 said: Your never going to talk to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT.... "never" means "never" .. I reiterate what Mr Spaz says about speaking in absolutes.. This is one of the reasons why many people dont trust "online experts".. or, make fun of them. SteveShannon, BKmetzWRKZ843, marcspaz and 1 other 4 Quote
WROZ250 Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 WOW! The only time I said always was in conjunction with the word exceptions. Likewise, I have never (uh oh using that word) used the word 'never' in anything I wrote regarding range. I likewise do not purport myself to be a "expert". "What is the exception for someone who lives in the city is the norm for someone who lives in the mountains." Yes Marcspaz, that is absolutely a valid statement. At the end of the day (oh god here I go with that untrustworthy 'expert talk'), there is, nevertheless, some relatively hard science behind RF paths. A transmitter has a given power output and an antenna with either some gain, or in the case of the average duck, some loss. Ultimately the actual radiated power is at some level. At the other end of that link you have an antenna system, hopefully with some gain and a receiver with a given sensitivity. So in order to communicate, the radiated energy of the transmitting radio has to be, upon arrival at the receiving antenna, has to have enough energy to overcome all the losses and hopefully still be high enough to enter the receiver at a level it can process. So ultimately, whether one can or cannot access a repeater at a given distance comes down to all of the above. Whether or not that occurs, depends on many environmental factors, especially terrain. Again, and as I alluded to, it isn't typical for a 5W hand held radio using a duck antenna to be able to access a repeater 80 miles away, just unlikely. Could it happen? Absolutely. So 'untrustworthy expert' jargon aside, in simple terms the answer is more accurately stated as 'it depends', not never, not always. Quote
marcspaz Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 @WROZ250 I had to spend some time thinking about a response. Please don't take offense by my last post or this one. While I quoted you, it was really intended for both you and gortex, replying to the combined ideas. It was a little friendly ribbing with some significant truths. WROZ250 1 Quote
MichaelLAX Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 While you boys are debating the finer points of grammar and lexicology, let us not forget that the OP is attempting real world communication from his home in Milwaukee to a repeater 80 miles away. I assumed he meant a repeater in Wisconsin when I suggested he was trying to reach Madison. But continued thought about his problem reminded me of a post on this forum that claims to hit a repeater in Evanston IL from Northern Wisconsin, 230 miles away using a Wouxun 905g. And the reason for the success of that contact was that it was primarily line of sight over the waters of Lake Michigan. So in remembering that Milwaukee also resides next to Lake Michigan, perhaps he is attempting to hit a 700 repeater in Chicago IL or Grand Rapids MI. We'll just have to wait for the OP to return and give us more facts. WROZ250 and kipandlee 2 Quote
gortex2 Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 My point was a CCR isn't going to talk 80 miles to a repeater. Unfortunately internet experts claim this is possible over and over and people believe I can go buy a POS CCR and an Ed Fong antenna and talk around the world. With quality equipment you can have great results. With cheap gear its not going to work. Manage expectations. If your gear cost less than dinner out thats what your going to get. WROZ250 1 Quote
MichaelLAX Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 19 hours ago, gortex2 said: Your never going to talk to a repeater 80 miles away on an HT.... 1 hour ago, gortex2 said: My point was a CCR isn't going to talk 80 miles to a repeater. Unfortunately internet experts claim this is possible over and over and people believe I can go buy a POS CCR and an Ed Fong antenna and talk around the world. With quality equipment you can have great results. With cheap gear its not going to work. Manage expectations. If your gear cost less than dinner out thats what your going to get. Kaffee: That's not what you said. You said he was never going to be able to talk to a repeater 80 miles away using an HT. Jessup: That's correct. Kaffee: You said 80 miles away using an HT Jessup: I recall what I said. Kaffee: I could have the court reporter read back to you... Jessup: I know what I said! I don't have to have it read back to me, like I'm... Kaffee: Then why the two statements? Colonel? Jessup: Sometimes men use HTs that are POS CCRs. Kaffee: No, sir. You made it clear just a moment ago that your men never use cheap gear. Your men use quality equipment or people die. So the OP shouldn't have been in any danger at all, should he have, Colonel? Jessup: You snotty little bastard. With apologies to Tom Cruise as Lieutenant Junior Grade Kaffee and Jack Nicholson as Colonel Nathan R Jessup in "A Few Good Men" written by Aaron Sorkin and directed by Rob Reiner. WROZ250, kipandlee, marcspaz and 1 other 4 Quote
WROZ250 Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 7 hours ago, marcspaz said: @WROZ250 I had to spend some time thinking about a response. Please don't take offense by my last post or this one. While I quoted you, it was really intended for both you and gortex, replying to the combined ideas. It was a little friendly ribbing with some significant truths. No Worries! marcspaz 1 Quote
TOM47 Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 I ROUINTINLY USE A STOCK KG935G TO CONTACT TOWERS MTN 575 IN CROWN KING AZ FROM INSIDE MY HOME IN NORTH GLENDALE AZ, AROUND 80 MI OR SO W/STRONG SIGNAL kipandlee and SteveShannon 2 Quote
OffRoaderX Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 4 hours ago, gortex2 said: My point was a CCR isn't going to talk 80 miles to a repeater. You are wrong. Just because you can't do it, does not mean nobody can. Unless maybe my Wouxun($79), BTech ($49), and Baofeng($30) HTs don't count as "CCR" radios - all of which talk 80 miles to a repeater. SteveShannon and kipandlee 2 Quote
bobthetj03 Posted January 29, 2022 Report Posted January 29, 2022 I haven't tried 80 miles, but my CCR successfully has made understandable contact to a repeater 50 miles away, and that's not LOS across a body of water. Quote
gortex2 Posted January 30, 2022 Report Posted January 30, 2022 Guess someone should call all these states and tell them to by CCR's. There is no reason for trunking systems with multiple sites...Not sure why AZ and CA have so many tower sites for radio systems. Quote
WROZ250 Posted January 30, 2022 Report Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, gortex2 said: Guess someone should call all these states and tell them to by CCR's. There is no reason for trunking systems with multiple sites...Not sure why AZ and CA have so many tower sites for radio systems. I'm sorry but I have to ask... CCR? "Chinese Crap Radio"? (Guessing) What??? Quote
SteveShannon Posted January 30, 2022 Report Posted January 30, 2022 23 minutes ago, WROZ250 said: I'm sorry but I have to ask... CCR? "Chinese Crap Radio"? (Guessing) What??? Cheap Chinese Radios. WROZ250 and TOM47 1 1 Quote
WROZ250 Posted January 30, 2022 Report Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Sshannon said: Cheap Chinese Radios. OK, close enough... I kinda figured it was something like that, just had never seen that before. Thanks! I will admit that I was never fond of the Chinese radios and am still not fond of many of them. That said, it does seem like Wouxun is at least trying to make a decent radio these days and for the money. I kinda have to laugh, because as a former Motorola employee (retired now) I can say with some authority that, these days many, if not all of their radios, are at least assembled in places like Mexico and the far east, even China. Yes, the design is, in the majority of cases, American and, lets be real, the radios do tend to be of a much higher quality than the import radios. Still, the price differential is substantial and beyond the budget of the average radio enthusiast. Compound that with, in the case of the commercial product line (not sure about their GMRS specific radios), you either have to pay a service shop to make programming changes and/or spend something around $250 (USD) per year to legally possess the software (not own). FWIW, Motorola legal has a pretty good track record of making examples (legally speaking) out of those found to have and/or using the software without a license. Yeah, I know there are those who do kinda don't care (what are the odds anyway.?) As a former Motorolan, I can attest to the the quality of the design and the radios and indeed, I am absolutely a fan of these radios as well. Sadly, I actually chose to get rid of my Motorola radios shortly after I retired because I did not have access to the software anymore. I also had too much to lose (still do) were I to be caught without a software license (the odds of being caught be damned). As noted, Motorola legal was well known (at least within the company) for being ruthless with those who were caught and, many would be surprised at who 'dropped a dime' on those who were prosecuted. All that said, some (not all) of the Chinese radios are, as previously noted, pretty decent radios for the money, even if they don't match for example, a Motorola radio in overall quality. So to say that the performance is less (speaking strictly in reference to range and overall communication capability), just because it came from China is, IMHO, an unfair statement. Would I own a Motorola radio again? Absolutely, if I could do it and afford to keep it legal (so to say). However, like many, and especially being retired, my radio budget kinda forces me to choose something more affordable and practical. The KG-935G I recently obtained is, IMHO, a really decent radio, even if it would not survive the proverbial 4ft drop to concrete (actually I don't know if it would or would not and, I'm not about to intentionally try). Conversely, I also have a pair of 'legal' GMRS portables (not going to name the manufacturer) that cost $50 for the pair (new), that even I would classify as 'CCR'. You do 'get what you pay for'. Do they work, sure. But they are also somewhat disappointing overall, even at $50 a pair. I just don't feel it is fair to condemn all Chinese radios. Like people, judge them individually (if at all). Ultimately, everybody has their personal preferences (and opinions) and as 'they' say, "To Each Their Own". Yet another 'opinion' 73, WROZ250 Quote
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