Newbie question about GMRS repeater access requests

[WRVE426]

Hi

I am totally new to GMRS (and radios in general) and I just making my first steps.

I used the myGMRS app to make a number of requests to access GMRS repeaters.

Only one replied, they other have been 'pending' for quite a while (see attached screenshot)

Is this normal?  Or am I doing something wrong?

As always, thanks for any pointers!

 

[gortex2]

I find it normal. Some guys will some wont. Half get added then the user disappears or changes email and its stuck in the system. 

[MichaelLAX]

It's normal.

My attitude is that if a repeaters radio waves cross over to your radio, such that you can decode its tones and use the repeater, you have the right to use the repeater until such time as a "proper" authority tells you otherwise.

Obviously being courteous in attempting to obtain permission first is always good practice.

[BoxCar]

1 hour ago, MichaelLAX said:

My attitude is that if a repeaters radio waves cross over to your radio, such that you can decode its tones and use the repeater, you have the right to use the repeater until such time as a "proper" authority tells you otherwise.

So, taking your comment further about using someone else's property, you think you have the right to use anything you wish until a "proper authority" tells you otherwise. Your attitude regarding this is disturbing to me and probably many others as well. Just because a repeater is up and you find the codes needed to use it doesn't give you the right to use it. That attitude could be seen as theft of services as you do not have a right to access the system. With only a few channels set aside for repeaters and published codes that could be set, unlocking any repeater is possible. You could also scan the airwaves around you and unlock WiFi systems and use their Internet connection or the codes necessary to access someone's home systems. Your attitude about what is yours and your rights regarding electronic communications needs some serious reconsideration.

[WRVE426]

But once I see the codes on myGMRS.com, does that not imply that I can use them?

(Sorry if that is a silly question)

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, BoxCar said:

So, taking your comment further about using someone else's property, you think you have the right to use anything you wish until a "proper authority" tells you otherwise. Your attitude regarding this is disturbing to me and probably many others as well. Just because a repeater is up and you find the codes needed to use it doesn't give you the right to use it. That attitude could be seen as theft of services as you do not have a right to access the system. With only a few channels set aside for repeaters and published codes that could be set, unlocking any repeater is possible. You could also scan the airwaves around you and unlock WiFi systems and use their Internet connection or the codes necessary to access someone's home systems. Your attitude about what is yours and your rights regarding electronic communications needs some serious reconsideration.

I agree for the most part, but I think it’s worth also pointing out that with only eight main 462 channels shared by repeater and simplex users neither  repeater owners nor simplex users have the right to expect exclusive use of the channels. A person doesn’t have the right to use someone else’s repeater without permission, but they do have the right to use the same 462 MHz frequencies. Otherwise eight “access for pay” repeaters could completely control access for all of the main channels. 

[SteveShannon]

7 minutes ago, WRVE426 said:

But once I see the codes on myGMRS.com, does that not imply that I can use them?

(Sorry if that is a silly question)

It depends. Some repeater owners withhold the tones pending permission. Some say access is open and publish the tones. And perhaps some say closed but publish their tones, placing users on the honor system to request permission. 

[WRVE426]

okay, I will wait for a formal reply and if I don't get any, I guess I won't try to use these repeaters

[MichaelLAX]

5 hours ago, BoxCar said:

So, taking your comment further about using someone else's property, you think you have the right to use anything you wish until a "proper authority" tells you otherwise. Your attitude regarding this is disturbing to me and probably many others as well. Just because a repeater is up and you find the codes needed to use it doesn't give you the right to use it. That attitude could be seen as theft of services as you do not have a right to access the system. With only a few channels set aside for repeaters and published codes that could be set, unlocking any repeater is possible. You could also scan the airwaves around you and unlock WiFi systems and use their Internet connection or the codes necessary to access someone's home systems. Your attitude about what is yours and your rights regarding electronic communications needs some serious reconsideration.

Since you have a history of posting contrary comments to many of my posts, I will not waste my time other than to say your reply is a complete distortion of my position and practice.

And I find your practice of trolling me disturbing and needs some serious reconsideration.

[MichaelLAX]

3 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I agree for the most part, but I think it’s worth also pointing out that with only eight main 462 channels shared by repeater and simplex users neither  repeater owners nor simplex users have the right to expect exclusive use of the channels. A person doesn’t have the right to use someone else’s repeater without permission, but they do have the right to use the same 462 MHz frequencies. Otherwise eight “access for pay” repeaters could completely control access for all of the main channels. 

Since I do respect your opinions which tend to be well-stated and founded in fact and reason; with whom are you agreeing for the most part? 

 

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, MichaelLAX said:

Since I do respect your opinions which tend to be well-stated and founded in fact and reason; with whom are you agreeing for the most part? 

The post by BoxCar which I included in quotes. 

[MichaelLAX]

6 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

The post by BoxCar which I included in quotes. 

Let's dissect this further.  So my original response was:

7 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

It's normal.

My attitude is that if a repeaters radio waves cross over to your radio, such that you can decode its tones and use the repeater, you have the right to use the repeater until such time as a "proper" authority tells you otherwise.

Obviously being courteous in attempting to obtain permission first is always good practice.

Without taking the time to cite actual examples, it is well known on this Forum that many, if not most, requests for permission go unanswered.  And many repeater owners on their myGMRS Forum repeater page actually say to not waste their time as requests for permission will not be responded to.

So the OP wants to use the Cocoa 675 repeater and does one or more of the following:

• He breaks into a conversation he hears on it, to ask more about the repeater

•He breaks into a conversation he hears on it, to ask how he can obtain permission to use the repeater.

•Not hearing any conversations on the repeater, he gives out a call asking for more information and/or permission to use the repeater.

•Not having heard any conversations on the repeater not having received an answer to his inquiry, he and a friend start using the repeater.

IMHO the OP has the ability and the right to do ALL of the above until such time as a person authorized to speak for the repeater owner tells him not to continue using the repeater.

[BoxCar]

There's a difference in your scenarios than what you originally posted. In your scenarios he is not using the repeater to carry on a conservation with another party but attempting to contact the "proper" authority.

[MichaelLAX]

3 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

There's a difference in your scenarios than what you originally posted. In your scenarios he is not using the repeater to carry on a conservation with another party but attempting to contact the "proper" authority.

No there is no difference; you are just refusing to admit that my original statement ended by saying:

Quote

Obviously being courteous in attempting to obtain permission first is always good practice.

 

[MichaelLAX]

The Urban Dictionary defines Troll as:

Quote

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

This initial statement was posted deliberately by you with the clear intent of attempting to use "what about-ism" to cause maximum argument.

6 hours ago, BoxCar said:

So, taking your comment further about using someone else's property, you think you have the right to use anything you wish until a "proper authority" tells you otherwise. 

It is a red herring*!

*Red herring - Merriam Webster defines as:

Quote

something that distracts attention from the real issue

And that's what's wrong with Trolling; you just want to beat me over the head any chance you get, so that the result is that a Newbie gets intimidated from considering all possible answers to their question!

And I was a bit surprised that @Sshannongot taken in by your misinformation until I went back and reread your quote of my original statement, which clearly left out:

Quote

Obviously being courteous in attempting to obtain permission first is always good practice.

Nice try!

[WRVE426]

5 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Let's dissect this further.  So my original response was:

Without taking the time to cite actual examples, it is well known on this Forum that many, if not most, requests for permission go unanswered.  And many repeater owners on their myGMRS Forum repeater page actually say to not waste their time as requests for permission will not be responded to.

So the OP wants to use the Cocoa 675 repeater and does one or more of the following:

• He breaks into a conversation he hears on it, to ask more about the repeater

•He breaks into a conversation he hears on it, to ask how he can obtain permission to use the repeater.

•Not hearing any conversations on the repeater, he gives out a call asking for more information and/or permission to use the repeater.

•Not having heard any conversations on the repeater not having received an answer to his inquiry, he and a friend start using the repeater.

IMHO the OP has the ability and the right to do ALL of the above until such time as a person authorized to speak for the repeater owner tells him not to continue using the repeater.

Actually, I tried to use a repeater in Deland, Florida.  It was my very first try and as soon as I made a reception test I got a reply from a person who very nicely told me that he could hear me.  I made the mistake of using my GMRS callsign at the beginning of my transmission.  I then heard the same voice asking my very nicely "who do we have here" and I repeated my callsign.  I did not transmit anymore (I did not want to clog the airwaves with my newbie ignorance!) and I did not hear anything. Only later did I realize that I had not received any authorization to use that repeater.  I don't recall where/how I found the frequency and access codes but I think it was on GMRS.com.

So my question is: would it be rude for me to access a repeater and ask for the right to use it even though to make this request I need to use the repeater once without any authorization?

I am a total newbie, but I really do not want to be rude or break any rule.  I get it, repeaters are private and I have no "right" to use them.  But if I don't get any replies to my requests, shall I try another way to ask or shall I assume that if the frequency and the codes are available I can at least ask for the use over the air?

I think that the steps suggested by MichaelLax make sense except that I would not interrupt a conversation already taking place.  But if there is silence, why not ask?

Again, my apologies for being such a clueless noob!

PS: being in super-flat Florida, repeaters probably only make most sense in cities (the biggest "mountains" in FL are landfills!).  Since I live in a small town and rarely go to big cities (I am more of a wilderness hiker) in most cases there are no repeaters I could use anyway (like in the Ocala National Forest or the Juniper Wilderness), so not using repeaters is okay by me.  I just want to learn the proper way to do things.

[Borage257]

52 minutes ago, WRVE426 said:

would it be rude for me to access a repeater and ask for the right to use it even though to make this request I need to use the repeater once without any authorization?

I’d go ahead and ask, explain that you are new and trying to get things figured out.

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, Borage257 said:

I’d go ahead and ask, explain that you are new and trying to get things figured out.

I'd bet dollars to a donuts that 99% of the time, you will be met with a friendly response, even if it is to tell you the repeater is private.

I came to GMRS in 2018 with the purchase of my first UV-5R, and some "old-timers" will tell you that historically GMRS repeaters are meant for family use.  However much that may have been true in the old days, after the 2017 reorganization, all bets are off, and with a few exceptions not relevant to your use in Florida, feel free to use it as you like.  By that I mean since license free FRS simplex users now have access to all of the GMRS simplex channels, including the repeater output channels, why should a licensed GMRS user have any less ability to use these frequencies?

In my anecdotal experience here in Southern California I have never been refused to use an open GMRS repeater, including those that I discovered on my own including decoding the Tones. 

[WRVE426]

thanks, this does make sense.

and yes, so far everybody in the GMRS world was super friendly to me, including in this forum where I got several questions quickly and very helpfully answered

[MichaelLAX]

19 hours ago, WRVE426 said:

I think that the steps suggested by MichaelLax make sense except that I would not interrupt a conversation already taking place.  But if there is silence, why not ask?

Again, my apologies for being such a clueless noob!

Certainly in the Ham Radio world: "breaking" into an existing conversation (that is waiting for the gap between one's transmission and the others and saying the word "break") is a commonly accepted practice, especially if you

(1) want to enter into that conversation; or

(2) given the ongoing duration of their conversation, you have a need to use the repeater, such as checking in with your spouse at a certain time.

Some repeaters may have rules that suggest a different word, such as "comment" to say instead of break.

GMRS, at least in my experience here in SoCal is that for some reason they do not like the word "break." Perhaps is too Hammy for their tastes, so I say "comment."

No apologies necessary: remember there is no such thing as a "stupid question." Only stupid answers! 

[WRVE426]

well then, I will follow up with another "noob" question: where can I learn the proper terminology to use?  Stuff like "break" or "roger" or "over" etc?

is there some kind of reference of such terms specifically for GMRS?

[OffRoaderX]

26 minutes ago, WRVE426 said:

well then, I will follow up with another "noob" question: where can I learn the proper terminology to use?  Stuff like "break" or "roger" or "over" etc?

is there some kind of reference of such terms specifically for GMRS?

No, because on GMRS we are normal people speaking normal English.. Speak/talk however you wish, but keep it family friendly.  If anyone tries telling you that you "cant" say 10-4, "cant" say "over", or "cant say" anything else, it's just their obsessive-compulsive power-trip showing itself and they should be ignored. 

[SteveShannon]

34 minutes ago, WRVE426 said:

well then, I will follow up with another "noob" question: where can I learn the proper terminology to use?  Stuff like "break" or "roger" or "over" etc?

is there some kind of reference of such terms specifically for GMRS?

As the gentleman said, don’t worry about any jargon. When I talk to my friend Dale, it’s just like talking on the phone. It’s obvious usually when someone has stopped so you don’t need to say Over. If someone says Roger to you that means “okay” and might mean they’re a ham or commercial radio operator. If they say Roger Roger, they’re definitely a ham.
I don’t have any idea when to use the word “break” except in “I need a break.“

 

[KAF6045]

Haven't encountered "break" used much in Amateur... It is over-used by the motormouths (the one's I seem to pick up using illegal amps and mostly Georgia&Alabama "rednecks") on 11m CB. For one particular wonder, he seems to use "break" just to keep his transmitter active rather than letting someone else get in (This is xyz in mno, break, break, break, I say...")

Amateur use of "comment" seems to be when a third party wants to, well, comment on the existing conversation -- not to break in for non-related conversation. I've seen call-sign used as a request to break into a conversation to ask if they may make a call to some one else.

[WRVE426]

Understood

Thank you all for your replies!

Oh, and  OffroarderX - thank you for your videos, they made me purchase my first GMRS radios and I love them!