GMRS Coded Talk

[SteveShannon]

9 minutes ago, Radioguy7268 said:

That's kind of my point. There's no FCC published official version of what their proposed 10 code shorthand might mean, so it's up to interpretation. Whose interpretation?

 

 

But there doesn’t need to be an FCC approved version. Publicly used 10 codes are not intended to hide their meanings. 
Although intent is usually difficult to prove, the posts within this thread could easily be used to show that WRVG593 intended to provide a hidden meaning. 
 

[WRVG593]

1 hour ago, Radioguy7268 said:

That's kind of my point. There's no FCC published official version of what their proposed 10 code shorthand might mean, so it's up to interpretation. Whose interpretation?

 

 

So in theory since there is no official 10 code... I could then theoretically say 10-1 Begin ride, 10-2 Stopping, 10-3 Broke down, etc

[WRVG593]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

But there doesn’t need to be an FCC approved version. Publicly used 10 codes are not intended to hide their meanings. 
Although intent is usually difficult to prove, the posts within this thread could easily be used to show that WRVG593 intended to provide a hidden meaning. 
 

Sure. I don't even intend on using any of this. Just purely out of thought. But let's say I post very publicly (say a forum, or other website that has the codes being used, with 10 placed in front) then is it public knowledge and therefore okay?

[SteveShannon]

5 hours ago, WRVG593 said:

Sure. I don't even intend on using any of this. Just purely out of thought. But let's say I post very publicly (say a forum, or other website that has the codes being used, with 10 placed in front) then is it public knowledge and therefore okay?

In my opinion, yes.  Establishing a shorthand to keep communications shorter does not intentionally hide the meaning, even though a portion of the population doesn’t understand the meaning. You probably wouldn’t even have to place a 10 in front of it.  Of course I am not a lawyer.

[WRUU653]

53 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

In my opinion, yes.  Establishing a shorthand to keep communications shorter does not intentionally hide the meaning, even though a portion of the population doesn’t understand the meaning. You probably wouldn’t even have to place a 10 in front of it.  Of course I am not a lawyer.

Thank you, this ^^^ 

you say you’re not a lawyer but didn’t you stay a Holiday Inn once

[SteveShannon]

41 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

Thank you, this ^^^ 

you say you’re not a lawyer but didn’t you stay a Holiday Inn once

Way more than once and as a PE I was responsible for regulatory compliance matters (interpretation and implementation) for over twenty years, working very closely with lawyers and our compliance department, so I would like to think I’m pretty good at reading and interpreting regulations. But the regulations I worked with were strictly enforced with huge fines and very costly periodic (every three years) audits.  The FCC doesn’t act that way.  That’s a good thing.

[Blaise]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:12 AM, zzz said:

"(4) Music, whistling, sound effects or material to amuse or entertain"

Does that mean if the roger beeps entertains me, it is against the rules?

Good grief, you're right!  Somebody better tell OffRoaderX...

[Sab02r]

Others may disagree, but the reality is that the English language is a very large and convoluted bunch of code words and phrases.

One could simply agree on common innocuous phrases to have meanings such as "on the flop" - stopped, "on the fly" - en route, "on the fritz" - broke down, and as long as you don't refer to them in a cryptic fashion  ("I send code "on the flop" to your station.  I repeat "on the flop"!  How copy? Over!!)  no one is going to report you to the FCC for speaking in code...nor will anyone care enough, or listen long enough, to even understand that you are speaking in any "code" except English.

What's more, if you stick to simplex your communications are unlikely to be scrutinized by radio aficionados or the FCC for codes any more than the lumber yard, the daycare, the garbage truck drivers, or the construction guys already transmitting code phrases on those channels.

[marcspaz]

I agree.  I use expressions like "I'm Oscar Mike" and "my other radio is Tango Uniform".  It's not really perceived as code.  I'm just using nuanced words to convey the meaning of a thought.

 

Or, when I am going to meet friends somewhere, I'll say "I'm 10 minutes from the spot." if I want to give someone an update.  It's no one else's business where "the spot" is.  No one could even remotely argue that you are being deceptive.  If I am talking to my wife and say, "okay, I'll meet you at your mom's house.", someone can't seriously accuse us of using code, false or deceptive language because I didn't provide 123 Main St. Smallville, US as the destination.  Mom's house is good enough and it's no one else's business.

 

That said, if you're talking on the radio to a 'friend' and you say you are about to deliver 22 kilos of white bananas to the warehouse and you're expecting the customer to have 9 million gallons of green paint ready for pickup, I think that will raise some eyebrows of anyone listening.  LOL

[Sab02r]

4 hours ago, marcspaz said:

I didn't provide 123 Main St. Smallville, US as the destination. 

Exactly.  Some might see this as a function of good personal safety practice or situational awareness.  Communicating without telegraphing location, destination, or personal information should be the rule...or at very least the goal, but it doesn't really require secret code.  Of course, broadcasting a callsign that can be looked up in a publicly available database to find the user's address does compromise some of that security, but that is the tradeoff we make.

Now, about my green paint...

[WQAI363]

In recent years, Most Public Safey Agencies have abandoned the use Ten Codes, for not all Ten Codes have the same meanings. There for, there were a lot of critical information mishandled, because not all agencies use the same   protocols when it comes to passing information via radio from point A to point B. 

 

Last year while I was working as NET CONTROL/ DISPATCH at the 2023 City to Shore Bike Ride for the MS Society, So I did use 10-4 to be briefly to let whoever I was on the radio that I understood and agreed.

Of course, there was one Amateur Radio Operator that gave me some slack for saying 10-4, but I used it as an aide to help me with my duties as Dispatch / NCS.

I know that Amateur Radio Operators don't want to hear Ten Codes, especially 10-4, because to them that's CB slang. I get what they're saying, but to put in CB slang, 10-4 Good Buddy That's what I would not say, especially working communications for any event large or small.

My suggestion, if you are going to use Ten Codes or Q signals over the radio, use them in a professional manner. You don't want to sound as if you have watched too many movies and TV shows, that's not professional.

Everyone that you have to communicate with via radio, must be on the same page, but this day and age, plain language is the best option. Don't double talk ok 10-4 or I'm 10-6 I'm Busy.

I am guilty of double talking when I use the radio sometimes, but most of the time, I just use plain language.

I can just hear some members of this forum. say no dah.  Adam, tell us something new, don't tell us what is obvious, but it sounds like Sleep Typing. You heard of Sleep Walking, well Sleep Typing or Talking in my Sleep. I can't disagree and I won't be hurt for being chewed out with criticism. 

73 to All

Adam WQAI 363

Edited May 18, 2023 by Adamdaj
Grammer Correction was needed.

[WRQC527]

26 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

In recent years, Most Public Safey Agencies have abandoned the use Ten Codes, for not all Ten Codes have the same meanings. There for, there were a lot critical information that wasn't understood, because not every agency was using the radio protocol.

The majority of ten codes aren't universal, but with some popular ones seem to be universal. Last year while I was working as NET CONTROL/ DISPATCH at the 2023 City to Shore Bike Ride for the MS Society, So I did use 10-4 to be briefly to let whoever was on the radio that understood and agreed.

Of course, there was one Amateur Radio Operator that gave me some slack for saying 10-4, but I used it as an aide to help me with my duties as Dispatch / NCS.

I know that Amateur Radio Operators don't want to hear Ten Codes, especially 10-4, because to them that's CB slang. I get what they're saying, but to put in CB slang, 10-4 Good Buddy That's what I would not say, especially working communications for any event large or small.

My suggestion, if you are going to use Ten Codes or Q signals over the radio, use them in a professional manner. You don't want to sound as if you have watched too many movies and TV shows, that's not professional.

Everyone that you have to communicate with via radio, must be on the same page, but this day and age, plain language is the best option. Don't double talk ok 10-4 or I'm 10-6 I'm Busy.

I am guilty of double talking when I use the radio sometimes, but most of the time, I just use plain language.

10-4.

[nokones]

Some law enforcement agencies will use a mixture of 9 and 10 codes, 10 and 11 codes, or just 9 codes only. Some agencies such as Los Angeles PD use plain language with the exception of a few "Code" codes i.e. Code 4, Code 5, etc. along with numerous Penal Code statute section numbers such as 211 for Robbery which is Penal Code Section "211". 

I wonder if LAPD still use "See the Man/Woman" phrase when they dispatch a call to a Radio Car

Then, there is the so called unofficial "800" Code which is not for appropriate use in front of kids such as "832".

Radio codes are not used to coverup the meaning or keep confidential from the public. They are mainly used for clarity and brevity.

Some codes have a standard meaning like 10-4 (OK, message received.) 10-1 means poor reception, 10-2 good reception, 10-3 change channels. Also, a lot of the 10 codes beyond the basic 10-1 to 10-10 codes will have different meaning for numerous agencies and that goes for the "9" codes too.

[WRHS218]

I was chastised by a "helpful" HAM two decades ago for inadvertently using a 10-code with a fellow off duty LEO on 2m. It just amazes me how HAMs will use Q codes on voice and end their transmissions on 2m with 73s and then complain about other people. Of course, I don't play well with others.

[WRUU653]

Last week I was talking with someone on GMRS via local repeater (he is also a ham) and a ham friend of his broke in to say hello (he had just gotten his GMRS lic.) he was welcomed to the dark side and he said do you guys say 73, the gentleman I was speaking with said yeah and 10-4 too . There are happy hams out there

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, WRHS218 said:

It just amazes me how HAMs will use Q codes on voice and end their transmissions on 2m with 73s and then complain about other people. Of course, I don't play well with others.

 

Yes!  Exactly!  Some hams I know even use Q codes while they are are having a face to face conversation.  Shoot... a lot of older hams I know call in-person conversations an 'eyeball QSO'.  LOL  Though, thankfully, the hams I know don't care if people say 10-4.  It's mostly people I don't know that give me grief if I break ranks.

[WRPC505]

When I earned my Tech Plus license (this was 1991), my first time on a local repeater I had accidentally said 10-4 - even though I was using plain language the entire conversation - and boy did I catch it. Now it's 2023 and I'm still gluing pieces of my back side to where they belong. In some parts of the country, people are a little more tolerant, while in other parts not so much...

[WRQC527]

23 hours ago, marcspaz said:

end their transmissions on 2m with 73s

We do 73 all the time on my repeater. 85 too, which is supposed to indicate a bro hug. However, there are a lot of, shall we say, "veteran" hams who will blow a gasket if someone says "73s" instead of "73". But truth be told, my life has no room for nitpicking other radio operators for how they talk. Deep down though I think q codes need to be reserved for CW and ten codes for CB. But I would never actually come out and say that publicly.

[KAF6045]

Biggest problem with ten codes is that they tend to be agency specific -- even among police, much less add the CB variations

https://copradar.com/tencodes/ <== look at Norfolk!

[WQAI363]

 

30 minutes ago, KAF6045 said:

Biggest problem with ten codes is that they tend to be agency specific -- even among police, much less add the CB variations

https://copradar.com/tencodes/ <== look at Norfolk!

You're absolutely right, the ten codes vary from state to state and county to county. I remember when I was an active member of the Town Watch, the Ten Codes were not necessary used in Philadelphia Polce, because Philly PD & FD just use plain langue with abbreviations from certain things.

Tacony Watch

10-4 Affirmative

10-20 Location or What is your Location?

10-36 Time Check

10-100 Break

10-Double 100 Off Radio End of Tour / Shift   

However, I always use 10-7 

The other codes we use were same as PPD and PFD........

FLAST = INFORMATION ON SUSPECT OR LOST INDIVIDUAL

LOCAL = FIRE 

NAT = NO ACTION TAKEN

RTF = REPORT TO FOLLOW

5292 =  NOTIFY THE CORRENOR'S OFFICE FOR POSSIBLE DECEASED INDIVIDUAL

Well that's all I remember using when I was actually working, may have been volunteering, but work is work.

 

 

[WRQC527]

2 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

work is work.

Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw yesterday. "Duct tape, zip ties, who cares, fixed is fixed."

[FlatTop]

I only use 11 codes and 13 codes....even numbers give me bad dreams. 

I am 11-47 - Means I have tacos

I am 13-49 - Means I need tacos

 

 

[WRUU653]

3 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

I only use 11 codes and 13 codes....even numbers give me bad dreams. 

I am 11-47 - Means I have tacos

I am 13-49 - Means I need tacos

 

 

It's less syllables to just say I have tacos or I need tacos though... and why would you risk such an important thing being misunderstood?

[axorlov]

2 hours ago, WRUU653 said:

It's less syllables to just say I have tacos or I need tacos though... and why would you risk such an important thing being misunderstood?

Cuz if I hear him needing tacos I may realize that I need tacos too, and that may drive down taco availability at a specific locality. And let's not go into what may happen if everybody will suddenly learn that he's got tacos, while taco supply is low.

[fe2o3]

1 hour ago, axorlov said:

Cuz if I hear him needing tacos I may realize that I need tacos too, and that may drive down taco availability at a specific locality. And let's not go into what may happen if everybody will suddenly learn that he's got tacos, while taco supply is low.

Just so long as it's not on Tuesday otherwise I get a little perturbed when the taco supply gets low!!!