[GMRS, CB, HAM] What Happens If You Transmit Without An Antenna?

[OffRoaderX]

I am curious if anyone has ever seen it posted online or been told: "if you transmit without an antenna, your radio will be damaged" ... With regard to any kind of radio (CB, GMRS, ham, etc).

And if you were told this/saw this information posted online, were there any qualifiers included? Ie; did they say "...but only IF you're using an older radio" or "it might take a while, it wont happen immediately" ?

[SteveShannon]

31 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

I am curious if anyone has ever seen it posted online or been told: "if you transmit without an antenna, your radio will be damaged" ... With regard to any kind of radio (CB, GMRS, ham, etc).

And if you were told this/saw this information posted online, were there any qualifiers included? Ie; did they say "...but only IF you're using an older radio" or "it might take a while, it wont happen immediately" ?

I have, but only anecdotally, never from an authoritative source such as a manufacturer. Here’s an example from quora:

The problem with no antenna is the output port becomes improperly terminated. This generally will cause the system voltage to be too high or the current too high, and this might damage components in older unprotected equipment.

[WRQC527]

29 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

I am curious if anyone has ever seen it posted online or been told: "if you transmit without an antenna, your radio will be damaged" ... With regard to any kind of radio (CB, GMRS, ham, etc).

And if you were told this/saw this information posted online, were there any qualifiers included? Ie; did they say "...but only IF you're using an older radio" or "it might take a while, it wont happen immediately" ?

Yes. I have seen online and/or been told "If I transmit without an antenna my radio will be damaged." Generally with no qualifiers. Also, I have read a similar warning in the manual for every radio I have bought over the last 30 years, usually with the qualifying "may" instead of "will".

[OffRoaderX]

3 hours ago, WRQC527 said:

Yes. I have seen online and/or been told "If I transmit without an antenna my radio will be damaged." Generally with no qualifiers. Also, I have read a similar warning in the manual for every radio I have bought over the last 30 years, usually with the qualifying "may" instead of "will".

Thanks .. When I posted a comment in this forum saying that this has been posted online, "Some people" decreed that what I said was: "a deliberate and blatant lie. No one ever said anything close to that." 

I thought it was weird how "some people" could claim to know that "NO ONE EVER SAID ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT".  I guess this just demonstrates how stupid and arrogant "some people" actually are - it seems that the harder they try to show everyone how smart they think they are, they just make themselves look more ridiculous. 

[nokones]

I think it may have been one of those Ham guys saying something to that affect.  I do remember the Jeep guy that drives a Nissan had a video to the contrary on that subject.  No antenna definitely affects your farz.  Its best to use the right antenna.

[SteveShannon]

CB World has this:

https://www.wearecb.com/how-to-tune-cb-antenna.html

SWR 3.0+: Performance will be severely affected, and you're likely to damage your radio with extended transmission use. You SHOULD NOT transmit with your CB at SWR levels above 3.0. If your SWR needle swings all the way to the right (off the charts) when getting your 3.0+ readings, you almost certainly have a major installation problem. This is almost always the result of a poor ground or incorrectly assembled stud, but on rare occasions can indicate a faulty coax, antenna, or incorrectly attached SWR meter.

 

[OffRoaderX]

Its all a blatant lie - nobody, ever, anywhere on the planet, has ever said this:

[SteveShannon]

Unfortunately a lot of people drink at the font of ignorance. They got it from a friend who got it from a friend…

They feel very superior in their ignorance in fact  

And there have been some radios that were vulnerable to finals failure; anecdotally the Yaesu ft-817 may have been one, but most modern quality transceivers simply fold back power to limit current in the finals.

With the right combination of transmission line length and open (or shorted) termination the current in the final transistors will be twice as high as they would be with an appropriate termination. If the final transistors cannot withstand the current and nothing happens to reduce the current they will overheat. There have been cases where they have been damaged, but unfortunately some people interpret that to mean that the damage always happens immediately. 

 

[WROJ674]

It's indeed widely mentioned by many online resources and radio enthusiasts that transmitting without an antenna can cause damage to your radio, applicable to various types of radios including CB, GMRS, and Ham radio. The primary function of the antenna is to radiate the radio frequency (RF) energy generated by the transmitter into the atmosphere. Without an antenna, this energy has nowhere to go and may reflect back into the radio, leading to overheating or damage to the transmitter circuits. Regarding the qualifiers you mentioned, there indeed are discussions.

For instance, some people might point out that older radio equipment may be more susceptible to the effects of transmitting without an antenna as they might lack some protective features found in modern radios. Additionally, some might mention that the damage may not occur immediately, but the risk of damage increases if transmitting without an antenna is done for extended periods or repeatedly. To protect your radio equipment, it's always advisable to ensure that an appropriate antenna is connected before transmitting.

[WRZE000]

Hi all,

Total newb here.  Jumping in an prolly gonna cause a flame war.  But.....  here goes anyways.

I thought the OP was an interesting question. I had no clue honestly.  Never ocurred to me.  So, I thought I would ask "ChatGPT", as I find it a useful additional source for all my internet digging.  It had the following to say......

=-=-=-=- ChatGPT Output =-=-=-=-=

I'm curious if there are any negative effects of transmitting a HAM or GMRS radio without an antennae

ChatGPT

 

Transmitting on a HAM or GMRS radio without an antenna, or with an improperly matched or tuned antenna, can have several negative effects, including:

1. Reduced Range: The antenna on a radio system is designed to transmit and receive signals efficiently. Without an antenna or with a poorly matched antenna, the effective range of your radio will be severely limited. You may only be able to communicate over very short distances.

2. Potential Damage: Transmitting without an antenna or with a poorly matched antenna can cause the radio's transmitter to reflect power back into the radio's circuitry. This reflected power can result in increased heat, which may damage the radio over time.

3. Increased Heat and Power Dissipation: Transmitting without an antenna can cause the radio's transmitter to work harder to dissipate power, which can result in overheating and reduced efficiency.

4. Interference: Using an antenna that is not properly matched to the radio can result in poor signal quality and increased susceptibility to interference, which can make communication difficult.

5. Violation of Regulations: Operating a HAM or GMRS radio without a proper antenna may violate the rules and regulations set forth by the FCC or other relevant regulatory authorities. This can lead to legal issues and potential fines.

It's essential to use the appropriate antenna for your radio system to ensure efficient and safe operation, as well as to comply with regulatory requirements. If you encounter antenna issues or are unsure about the proper antenna setup for your radio, consult the radio's user manual or seek advice from experienced operators or radio technicians.

 

Can you provide references for the above comments?

 

ChatGPT

 

Certainly, I can provide references to support the information provided in my previous responses about the negative effects of transmitting on HAM or GMRS radios without an antenna or with an improperly matched antenna. Please note that the specific regulations and guidelines may vary by country, so it's important to consult the relevant regulatory authority in your country for the most accurate and up-to-date information. Here are some general references:

1. Reduced Range and Potential Damage:

   • ARRL (American Radio Relay League): "Getting Started with Ham Radio" - Antenna Basics
   • ARRL: "RF Exposure and You" - Transmission Line and Antenna Safety

2. Increased Heat and Power Dissipation:

   • W8JI Technical Resource: "Antenna Efficiency" - Tuner Losses
   • RadioReference.com Forums - Using HT without an Antenna

3. Interference:

   • ARRL: "RF Interference" - Causes of RF Interference

4. Violation of Regulations:

   • Federal Communications Commission (FCC) - FCC Rules for the GMRS
   • FCC - Amateur Radio Service

These references provide information on antenna basics, transmission line safety, and the potential consequences of using radios without appropriate antennas. Remember to verify the specific regulations and guidelines relevant to your country or region from the appropriate regulatory authority.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

interesting stuff.  Who knew?

EDIT:  Regarding the "references"...  I only just now tried to follow some of them.  They are 404.  ChatGPT was trained on information several years old....

=-=-=- More ChatGPT =-=-=-

Some of your references return 404. Remind me what year you stopped training?

ChatGPT

I apologize for any broken links in the provided references. My training data includes information up until September 2021, and it appears that some of the links I provided may have changed or become inactive since that time. I don't have real-time internet access to verify external web content. For the most current and accurate information, I recommend visiting the official websites of organizations like the ARRL (American Radio Relay League) or the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) and searching for relevant topics on their respective websites. If you have any specific questions or need more detailed information, feel free to ask, and I'll do my best to provide accurate responses based on my training data.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by WRZE000
References return 404...

[AdmiralCochrane]

Though I think this information is accurate, I have distrust for a source that is known to have deliberately fabricated sources in the past to make an answer be what it wanted people to believe when real data had other results. 

[Lscott]

”What Happens If You Transmit Without An Antenna?”

With near 100% certainty nobody will hear you. 

[WRZE000]

21 hours ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

be what it wanted people to believe when real data had other results. 

If you are referring to ChatGPT "wanting" anything.... I fear you give it way to much credit.  It doesn't want anything more than your toaster wants to toast your bread.  But this will take us all way off topic I'm sure.

[AdmiralCochrane]

37 minutes ago, WRZE000 said:

If you are referring to ChatGPT "wanting" anything.... I fear you give it way to much credit.  It doesn't want anything more than your toaster wants to toast your bread.  But this will take us all way off topic I'm sure.

Apparently the ChatGTP creators endowed it with bias.  How else do you explain when it answers with bogus results. 

[axorlov]

1 hour ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

Apparently the ChatGTP creators endowed it with bias.  How else do you explain when it answers with bogus results.

Explanation is clear. ChatGPT was never born out of woman's womb. It never was raised by a human family, acquiring a life experience as it grows. It never was sitting next to its grampa on a couch begging money for an ice cream when 6yo. It never went to school, never worked in a fast food joint or coffee shop, never volunteered for cleaning local creek or cleaning local streets. It was never a member of a local gang either. It never was a hand to an experienced machinist or chef or painter, a creator of things to use or admire by others. It was never bitten by mosquitos in the warm night, never slept in a flooded tent in a cold night, never had a perfect morning (or afternoon) lying next to someone. Never lost a significant one to anything, and never even had a significant one.

It's Large Language Model is trained on the internet, on the post like yours, mine, and from a certain someone. What else can one possibly expect?