Fixed Station vs Base Station?

[GrouserPad]

In GMRS rules 95.1767 it states a fixed station must not tx more than 15 watts. It also says base station no more than 50 watts. 
 

What is the difference between a fixed station and a base station per their rules?

[tweiss3]

It's in the rules.

Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only.

Base station. A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations.

47 CFR 95.303

 

An example of a fixed station would be an RF link between 2 repeaters. They only talk with each other, at fixed locations.

[GrouserPad]

Thanks! I figured it was in the rules somewhere. My apologies for my lack of reading skill lol

[WRUU653]

“Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only.”

Here is an entire thread on the subject.

a double post for your double post. ️

[GrouserPad]

2 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

 

“Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only.”

Here is an entire thread on the subject.

a double post for your double post. ️

️ nice reading in that thread. I’ll look it over. 

[WRUU653]

13 minutes ago, GrouserPad said:

️ nice reading in that thread. I’ll look it over. 

It goes on far too long for a very simple thing. I’d rather link to it than repeat it.

[UncleYoda]

1 hour ago, tweiss3 said:

It's in the rules.

And that tells us exactly nothing about what a fixed station is.

 

Quote

An example of a fixed station would be an RF link between 2 repeaters. They only talk with each other, at fixed locations.

Total bull.  They have already said repeaters aren't allowed to be linked.  Everybody wants to make up their own BS interpretation and none of it is official.

[Socalgmrs]

8 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

And that tells us exactly nothing about what a fixed station is.

 

Total bull.  They have already said repeaters aren't allowed to be linked.  Everybody wants to make up their own BS interpretation and none of it is official.

Actually what was clairified about repeater linking by the fcc is linked over phone line and internet.   It is still and has always been ok to link via radio waves.  Just harder and more expensive to do. 
 

 

 

as far as it being in the rules.  THIS right here is why every one needs to read the rules BEFORE paying your $35 fees.  When you pay your fees you are swearing to the fcc that you have read AND understand the gmrs rules.  Ignorance is not an excuse. Just read. Do your own research.  1/2 the posts on this site and all over the web could be deleted if people would just do research before asking to be hand fed.   In this world no one has any excuse to be ignorant in anything.  

[UncleYoda]

13 minutes ago, Socalgmrs said:

Actually what was clairified about repeater linking by the fcc is linked over phone line and internet.   It is still and has always been ok to link via radio waves. 

No, there was another part to their clarification - we can't link by RF either because it can cover a wide area which was not the intent for GMRS.

[SteveShannon]

23 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

And that tells us exactly nothing about what a fixed station is.

 

Total bull.  They have already said repeaters aren't allowed to be linked.  Everybody wants to make up their own BS interpretation and none of it is official.

No, they said repeaters cannot be connected to a network for the purposes of linking. They said nothing about radio links.

[SteveShannon]

28 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

And that tells us exactly nothing about what a fixed station is.

Au contraire, the rules tell us exactly what a fixed station is and the rules tell us exactly what the limits are.  You just haven’t extrapolated from the rules how you might use one.  Others have described how they could be used.  A pair of fixed stations could be dedicated to provide an intercom between two households such as on a family farm, for example.  Or for telemetry and control. 

[UncleYoda]

3 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Au contraire,...You just haven’t extrapolated from the rules how you might use one.

Contrare is all people do on this forum and the whole internet - I don't want any amateur speculative interpretations.  I want the officials responsible to clarify.  Everything else is BS.  As far as EXTRAPOLATION, the regs should be written so we don't need to make up our own ideas of what we believe they mean.  That is exact;y the problem we have right now.  I wish I had a list of every BS explanation I've heard from people on this topic.

[UncleYoda]

15 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

No, they said repeaters cannot be connected to a network for the purposes of linking. They said nothing about radio links.

Some folks need to go back and read it again.  I could probably find it and quote it but I'm not interested in the argument anymore since it was clear to me.

[SteveShannon]

Just now, UncleYoda said:

Some folks need to go back and read it again.  I could probably find it and quote it but I'm not interested in the argument anymore since it was clear to me.

I’ll make it easier for you. Here’s the interpretation.  I suspect you’re referring to the part that I underlined:

A GMRS user can expect a communications range of one to twenty-five miles depending on station class, terrain, and repeater use.  GMRS stations cannot be interconnected with the public switched telephone network or any other network for the purpose of carrying GMRS communications, but these networks can be used for remote control of repeater stations.  In other words, repeaters may not be linked via the internet—an example of an “other network” in the rules—to extend the range of the communications across a large geographic area.  Linking multiple repeaters to enable a repeater outside the communications range of the handheld or mobile device to retransmit messages violates sections 95.1733(a)(8) and 95.1749 of the Commission’s rules, and potentially other rules in 47 C.F.R.  Repeaters may be connected to the telephone network or other networks only for purposes of remote control of a GMRS station, not for carrying communication signals. 

[UncleYoda]

Yes in part - the underlined sentence is enough by itself IMO.  But there was more explanation that covering large areas was not the intent and there's no way to know what is going on at another repeaters location (like maybe 50-75 miles away), either another repeater that overlaps or a simplex conversation, and wide area coverage is a problem with the limited channels available..

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, UncleYoda said:

As far as EXTRAPOLATION, the regs should be written so we don't need to make up our own ideas of what we believe they mean.

That would be a terrible way to regulate.  FCC: Here are the ways we have imagined. Don’t do anything else!
Instead they give us fairly simple restrictions.  Whatever you can image that fits within those restrictions is allowed.  That’s how innovation works.  
 

[UncleYoda]

2 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

That would be a terrible way to regulate.

"Many trials occur because of differences in interpretations."  - SteveShannon, Feb 16, 2024

 

Here's a bit more that follows what you posted (with the underlined sentence) above (there may be more too):
from https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

Quote

 

In addition to violating Commission rules, linking repeaters is not in the public interest.  Because GMRS spectrum is limited and used on a shared “commons” basis, the service only works well on a localized basis when users can hear each other and cooperate in the sharing of channels.  Linking repeaters not only increases the potential for interference, but also uses up a limited spectrum resource over much larger areas than intended, limiting localized availability of the repeater channels.

GMRS and the Family Radio Service (FRS), which share many of the GMRS channels, are intended for individuals such as family members and friends, scouting troops, emergency response groups, and hobbyists to communicate with each other over short distances, directly or through a repeater station.  Linking repeaters, via the internet or other networks, undermines the purpose and usefulness of the GMRS and FRS. 

 

[SteveShannon]

46 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

"Many trials occur because of differences in interpretations."  - SteveShannon, Feb 16, 2024

 

Here's a bit more that follows what you posted (with the underlined sentence) above (there may be more too):
from https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

In fact I am personally against linking repeaters for wide areas. I’ve said that numerous times. But what you and I posted are interpretations, not regulations. The regulations definitely prohibit using the telephone network and arguably prohibit using the internet or any other network for carrying GMRS communications. But I’ve never seen anything in the regulations that prohibit radio links. For someone who wants to do repeater voting schemes I could see it being done and I don’t think that the regulations prohibit it. 

[AdmiralCochrane]

I am pretty certain I hear legacy business fixed stations transmitting business data

[marcspaz]

As others have mentioned, there is no difference in physical hardware as you move from one station type to another. Station type is established based on how it is used, and can be classed as any other station type simply by changing how the radio is used.  Thise use cases are explained in the rules, as mentioned by others. 

 

@UncleYoda you're kind spicy today! LoL

 

For what its worth, ther is absolutely zero regulations and zero statements of clarification that was released by the FCC that says GMRS repeaters can't be linked. The rules contradict themselves, which is why the FCC released a clarification that repeaters can't be linked over a network for the purpose of expanding coverage. As it stands right now, there is no prohibition on linking repeaters for the purpose of extending range over an RF link, because an RF linked is not a network under any definition. 

[UncleYoda]

42 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

you're kind spicy today! LoL

Yea, it's one of my 2 major pet peeves with GMRS and the two are linked by those who claim to understand but don't really know any more than the rest of us.

Quote

Station type is established based on how it is used, and can be classed as any other station type simply by changing how the radio is used.  Thise use cases are explained in the rules, as mentioned by others.

There are some differences in equipment.  Handhelds are even defined by equipment, and per FCC as Steve also suggested, handheld is a sub-type of mobile where regulations don't specify separate rules,  Base stations have an antenna in a fixed position.  Mobile is normally straight forward but can get a little fuzzy in some circumstances.

Quote

For what its worth, ther is absolutely zero regulations and zero statements of clarification that was released by the FCC that says GMRS repeaters can't be linked. The rules contradict themselves, which is why the FCC released a clarification that repeaters can't be linked over a network for the purpose of expanding coverage. As it stands right now, there is no prohibition on linking repeaters for the purpose of extending range over an RF link, because an RF linked is not a network under any definition.

To me, their clarification indicates it's the linking itself that is not intended, not just use of phone or internet.  Linking by any technology has a lot of the same drawbacks (tying up channels, potential for interference, etc.).  It's not just PTSN or internet but the linking itself that is a concern.  True that they didn't update the regs, but interpretation by FCC is a lot better IMO than interpretation by Billy Joe and Bobby on the internet.  For those who want to challenge it because the clarification wasn't incorporated into the wording in the regs, y'all go ahead and see what happens.