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By design, there are numbered channels on GMRS & FRS for a reason - so that normal people can more easily use the radios and communicate amongst themselves. Anyone pushing frequencies over channels clearly has no understanding of GMRS, its intended use or its target audience.

From my experience as a not-very-interested amateur radio license holder, I observed an interesting phenomenon occur on the local ham radio scene, as digital modes such as C4FM (Yaesu System Fusion) and DMR began to appear. It absolutely killed the local ham radio scene. People either embraced the technology, or hated it, and in that process, people got angry with those who disagreed with them (think modern day politics in America). As such, there is little-to-no amateur radio activity on repeaters anymore, and amateur radio as we knew it, has got both feet firmly in the grave…in this neck of the woods. Dozens of repeaters go unused. Those who embraced the digital voice modes (or “the dark side” as many called it), started out on talkgroups with fairly large gatherings of hams. Over time, they would get the azz of one another, and break off into other talkgroups of smaller, more intimate groups (another way of saying, only those who can tolerate each other), because they realized they could just keep creating new talkgroups. Now there are hundreds, if not thousands, of talkgroups, where two or three hams talk, where they used to talk to large groups on their local analog repeater. Excellent use of bandwidth. It is interesting to see the discussion of DMR, or perhaps some other form of modulation, on GMRS, with it’s limited bandwidth, and no requirement to understand anything at all about radios. When asked to share spectrum space with analog and digital users, I can only imagine what will happen. My worthless and unsolicited opinion is…if you want to play with a DMR radio, get yourself over to amateur radio. All sorts of people struggling there with code plugs, color codes, time slots, etc. And these are people who have “passed” a test to demonstrate proficiency in radio operation. I think there is too much effort being placed in trying to turn GMRS into amateur radio. People want internet linking, wide coverage repeaters, nets, vanity call signs, ARES/RACES affiliations, digital voice modes. It all exists over on ham radio.

I disagree. If I am communicating with my friends, I am not going to say "set your radio to 462.575 MHz," I am going to say "set your radio to channel 16." Especially if we are communicating via a mixture of FRS and GMRS radios. Not using the set channels makes things much less convenient. Not to mention that some radios don't have the option to change frequencies, only channels.

Thanks, folks. I've got The ARRL Antenna Book, 23rd Edition (all 1000 pages!) and Reflections III. Looks like about three months of reading. Well, I asked for it!?

Certainly. He is just mentioning that many people want to make GMRS another version of HAM, part of that being the move towards DMR. And yes, it is true. Many view GMRS as the easier and study-free way to use radio, but HAM was created for the sole purpose of radio enthusiasm and interest.

I am not sure about everywhere in the US, but in VA and FL, SKYWARN is phone, internet (email/text) and Amateur Radio. ARES does integrate FRS/GMRS into its responses, but it's very limited and we don't train for it on the regular bases. It's use in training (where I am) is very rare because we usually put them in the hands of SAR/USAR staff, VIP and command staff, etc., during actual emergencies when Ham radio folks are short staffed and we need an unlicensed service for them to use, that keeps them in touch with Hams to move traffic to where it needs to go. Not to sound mean, but if you are too busy to study for the test, chances are you won't have time to drill/practice or actually help when/where needed. And that is okay, BTW. To give you some incentive, my wife got her license when she was 12... and had to learn/demonstrate Morse Code. The grandchild of a friend of mine got their license this year at just age 7. I was super intimidated by it, but just took the online practice exams until I passed with a 100%, and then went and took the actual test. It was a lot easier than I thought and had myself freaked out for nothing. I highly recommend spending a little bit of time on it and getting your Tech license. BTW, I recently bought a VHF/UHF handheld Ham radio (which is all you need to get started) for $35. It can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be. That is really the intent of GMRS. The service restrictions don't really lend to doing much more. Repeaters greatly expand range, but they are few in some places and none in others, they are privately owned in most cases and have restrictions on power, modulation and information types that make it so its not practical for many cases. That said, I know there are whole communities that are prone to wild fires, earthquakes, etc., that implemented GMRS networks to help the whole community and to empower the community to help themselves. You can always reach out to your local volunteer groups and see if there is anything like that around you.

I’m curious if they have a pudgy duck antenna that wouldn’t have that gap. ?

@SargeDiesel sounds good. yeah,, the standard duty mounts tend to have shorter and thinner screws since it's not intended to hold as much weight. Stores like ACE Hardware should have longer screws. I haven't checked the big stores, like Lowe's or Home Depot, but they may, too.

No apologies needed, you have been very helpful. It was my mistake, after I re-read ... I realized you mentioned that you "poked" through to the aluminum. I thought the bead was aluminum, so I was going to use the plates that came with the mount and have a great connection where I sanded, but I then realized that it wasn't aluminum. I have the 720 which is quite a bit smaller than yours, so to poke through the bead , I think I might need longer allen head screws. So it looks like you were able to punture through the seam pretty well to the aluminum for a good ground. I will give it another shot.

You might like this idea. GMRS Digital Voice - 20220803.pdf

This. GMRS is an analog service, with all legal hardware on the band putting out 12.5khz or 25khz FM modulation (technically SSB and AM would be allowed too, but nobody makes this). The problem with DMR is that it's disruptive to these kinds of radios - traditional analog PL's will often leak DMR through as they're triggered by the signal, and currently most DMR's radio transmit inhibit functions are set to listen to the presence of other digital signals only, in short even with the equivalent "BCL" enabled they'd walk all over analog traffic. DMR users have no way of knowing what non-DMR signals exist on frequency (not saying it's impossible to implement, it just doesn't exist). Using DMR on the interstitial channels might be a workable solution, maybe even at full power, as they're 12.5khz wide and would fit reasonably well between the main GMRS channels when considering true signal bandwith, but asking it to co-exist with analog repeater systems on the same channels is trouble. That's not to say that DMR is not more spectrum efficient, you have half the band width, and twice the time slots (which can also allow for single frequency full duplex repeaters), so it could effectively handle 4 times the traffic as a whole had it been what GMRS was based on, but that's not the case currently. The other stumbling block would be programming - lots of folks have trouble with understanding repeater PL's, let alone talk groups, time slots, DMR id's, color codes, transmit inhibits, roaming settings, and what not - this would need to be made more intuitive to users first, perhaps even standardized by industry, as getting it wrong can seriously mess up the usability of a repeater.

Why? I'm half and half on DMR for GMRS, but when you sit down and think about it, DMR would allow for better co-use of a single repeater pair, with the added bonus of better coverage and other tools that quite frankly would be used in our house.

Thank you so much, both the links have great info. I'm in Arizona, checking on the repeaterbook website for all the information. Thanks again ! Might reach back out if I am stumped!!

I don't know of any ARES or SKYWARN openings for GMRS. Hams can't connect to GMRS or GMRS to ham radios but that doesn't mean they can't be licensed in both. Ham HH transceivers start around $90 so not much more than GMRS but with a lot more connectivity on 2M and 70cm.

Great information! I’ll keep it handy for future reference. Meantime, buytwowayradio responded and had the exact part I needed. They are a great company. Never thought about asking them for parts. Now I know!

I was wondering how this would work on a radio with only a channel display and two knobs. This doesn't seem to be a feature I would use on this radio, but thank you for pointing it out.

Use a different manual ? http://www.pofung.cn/UploadFiles/20200827094748361.pdf It explains that you must have all 22 channels programmed and then power on while on channel 22. It will automatically begin scanning: Scan This function can be activated only by means of the optional programming software. To enable the Scan function, all 22 channels must be programmed. If you turn on the radio on channel 22, the scanning will automatically start. Whenever any signal is detected, the scanning will stop on a busy channel. If the PTT is pressed, you will transmit on the latest busy channel. Channel 22 is the priority channel; therefore if you don’t pick up any signal when you press PTT, the radio will transmit on channel 22.

An in-band repeater you likely need a good cavity duplexer. Tuning one isn't so easy with the inexpensive VNA's since they lack a high dynamic range. The attached files are from my on-line library I keep on the computers and smartphone for quick easy reference. For duplexers this might prove useful. Calculating Required Isolation.pdf 468523097_RepeaterAntennaSystems.pdf Understanding Maintaining and Re-Tuning Antenna Duplexers.pdf

This is why the FCC will have to address allowing digital voice on GMRS sooner or later. It's happening with, or without, their official blessing. I would rather see digital voice incorporated officially in the rules, which hopefully will eliminate the chaos that currently exists. It also has to be coupled with some meaningful enforcement actions, at least directed towards the more frequent and flagrant violators. Right now the complaints stem from DMR operation on GMRS. However I'll bet that's not the only digital voice mode you'll find in use on the service. There are plenty of commercial radios very capable of FM and digital modes such as NXDN and P25. I have several of those and some are Part 95 certified. Just can't use the digital half of the radio. Then you have some of the modified Ham gear, MARS/CAP mod's, running D-Star and YSF. A real smorgasbord to sort out. I started a thread a while back about possible Part 95E rule changes to allow digital voice on GMRS. Seems like people don't care since the thread just died from lack of interest. Also it got derailed early on over lecturing about FHSS, which wasn't the point of the thread anyway. Oh well.

From the bit I can see it looks like it may be the first block is all narrowband (frs) and the second (gmrs) would be wideband on all except the 467 interstitial channels.

Channel #23, you dumbadour.

Definitely need to know the make and model of the radio to be the most amount of help. Also, is the radio new or used? The names for the repeater channels look custom. As it stands right now, I am inclined to agree with @wrci350, assuming the software imported all 22 channels twice, plus the repeater channels.

What kind of radios? Do they actually have their own 'custom version of Chirp', or is it their own programming software? As far as the second question, since FRS and GMRS share the first 22 channels, if you import both "FRS" and "GMRS" you are going to end up with 44 plus the 8 repeater channels, or a total of 52. Pre-programmed FRS radios come with 1-22 (set up narrow and FRS power). Pre-programmed GMRS radios come with 1-22 (set up wide [other than 8-14] and GMRS power) plus the 8 repeater channels.

On all Post 2017 GMRS & FRS radios GMRS channels 1-22 and FRS channels 1-22 are the same frequencies. No idea why your software does not know this.

Try reading this book. It's written for the average Ham Radio operator so it doesn't get crazy with the math etc. http://www.w3pga.org/Antenna Books/Reflections III.pdf

Probably the best way is to pick up something like the ARRL Antenna book and then watch some videos that teach the use of EZNec or MMANA, which are two antenna modeling programs. Free versions of each are available and they’re pretty easy to use. Look for a channel on YouTube by DX Commander that has some tutorials on MMANA or David Casler on EZNec. I would try going to a ham swap meet and getting a used copy of the book; it’ll cost much less than ordering from ARRL and the difference will be minimal. Antenna theory hasn’t changed much lately, except for the gigahertz regime. There haven’t been any landmark discoveries that have changed people’s minds for awhile. I receive a big book quarterly of the Transactions of the Antennas and Propagation Society of the IEEE and I almost freeze at the titles of the articles. I think I’d have to go back to school just to understand the titles, much less the actual articles, but every article is about gigahertz or terahertz uses. As far as I can tell the UHF stuff is relegated to the same dusty shelf as VHF, and HF. There’s probably something still being done for ELF also, but I haven’t seen anything.

This is the obvious answer.. Everyone knows that CB Ch19 is the unofficial official road channel so it makes sense that GMRS Ch19 would be the same.. Someone should go on Youtube and decree it, to make it official..

There is some sort of glitch that I have not figured out yet: Programmed as shown in the Screenshot above, and left on Channel 22 when programmed it works. But once it is on another channel and then manually set to Channel 22 and then turned off and then on, it is not working.

Because this it the channel nonsense. Channel is only a programming slot in your radio. Drop this "channel" affection and start thinking frequencies. And if you insist on numbering channels here are two things: 1) there are 22 numbered frequencies in FRS/GMRS, no channel #23 2) here is the channel numbering table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service