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I'd be curious what numbers would look like into a dummy load rather than into the antenna. I'd also be curious to test how much difference in numbers a short pigtail (12"-18" ) really makes in the numbers. For reference, I did some testing on 70cm awhile back with a vertex standard radio (rated 45 watts out on high), the 17 ft of unlabeled cable that came with a Midland mount, and 35 ft of abr400. Measured at the radio, with coax and comet gp1 attached, I saw 43 watts either way. Measuring at the antenna end, the Midland cable showed 23 watts, while twice the length of abr400 showed 35 watts at the antenna. I want to say it was spot on 45 with a dummy load at the radio.

Where are you measuring the power? At the radio or at the antenna side? How long is the coax between the radio and the meter? Is the cable between the radio and the meter also LMR400? How long are your power wires? What gauge are the wires? Are there any connectors on the power wires between the power supply and the radio. What method did you use to connect the power cables to the power supply? (Lugs, power poles, screw-downs, etc.) The more information the better.

Program one to monitor the repeater. (Correct frequency, no tones) Transmit with the other to the repeater input frequency and with the right input “privacy” tone. Transmit on one and listen on the other. In a successful test you should hear yourself. Keep them far enough apart that the transmission doesn’t de-sense the receiver. My radios work just fine on one end of the kitchen table.

I think I will try to connect into the 177 about mid or late February. Need the additional solar hours to recover the battery. The repeater has been popping on and off line as the battery is low. At least this year I can say it has been reliably coming back on-line. All prior years it went down and never came back up.

Thank you Lscott. Took me a while but it did work. I have a Win 10 pc that I rarely use (batt. issues), did all the "mods" on it. Worked out. Might go in and print it all out, or save it to a PDF to use on a "good" pc. Thanks again. Boatiac

Are you certain the DB-25 is putting out full power? Also, measure the power from the radio at the antenna connector. You could have a bad connector at either end of the cable.

Here's a pic of the old overcrowded tower. The GMRS antenna, a Tram 1486-B, is on the left rear side standoff. It's time to get the second tower up if ever I get off my lazy butt to do it. One day it will go up. Nothing worse than leaving 120' of tower unused and unloved.

Just looked. I think this is what you want to use. https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/view-winhelp-hlp-files-windows-10-with-winhlp32-exe/

I would leave it alone. To trim a dual band antenna for another frequency involves more that just shorting the radials. I would recommend you look for a GMRS specific base antenna. Members here have some very good recommendations they can offer.

Bill, Thanks for the reply. Will be glad help where ever I can. Would be great to get a wide area repeater up so can expand our presence in the greater ANC area.

Here is my goofy setup. The one radio on top of the power supply is my GMRS base station radio. The other two radios are for the GMRS repeater package. I am using a Laird 5dB Omni antenna with an EMR Duplexer using a LMR400 coax cable with a lightning Arrestor connected to earth ground at the electrical panel. I switched the Antenna between the Base Station Radio and the Repeater Package with an antenna switch. I have other radios for all my vehicles.

Thank you @gortex2 for raising the question. The dialog can be healthy. I think @labreja accurately describes the major reason why. What HAM was and what it has become are two different things. The way NotaRubicon for example, responds to them on his very popular channel is telling. Today, HAM represents itself to the public as an exclusive club of what behind the scenes (not everywhere) is in all actuality an archaic system of dated and unhelpful rules. This means that the people on those repeaters and frequencies are potentially unwelcome to newcomers that don't share their biases and beliefs. The general public feels this way. That is a problem whether it is true or not. GMRS is the polar opposite. It is welcoming, friendly, and encourages the free discourse of discussion over a really cool medium (aka radio) without having made everyone learn a bunch of totally irrelevant ideology just to use a frequency and talk on it. However, not every HAM is that way, of course. We need licensing over frequencies, not radios types, not how many radios you have in your truck, not how much money you have, not how big a bully you are, not how much of a school hall monitor nazi you are. Like real sensible reasons for why we do things. Its just so totally crazy what drives the HAM market ecosystem. However, I'm somewhat saddened to see GMRS become like HAM. We would all be better served if GMRS was for "groups" and HAM was for experimentation and the like. This means sharing of frequencies between the two. The only reason I have a HAM ticket was to gain access to the frequencies, not to become an enforcer of peevishness.

Around the Detroit area 2M and 70cm are dead most of the time. Many of the repeaters see little use. On 70cm with 20MHz of spectrum it’s easy to get lost in it if you’re looking to talk to somebody. On GMRS you only have a handful of frequencies to use so it doesn’t take much to find activity. On the Ham 70cm band yeah you have some grumpy people. With GMRS it’s geared for “family” use and the range of permissible uses is far greater than the Ham band allows. On GMRS everyone has the same type of license call, none of the 1x2, 1x3 etc. calls depending your license class. Some Hams won’t talk to somebody with a tech class call for example. On GMRS nobody cares how much DX you’ve worked, how fast you can send and receive CW, you run 1500 watts into an antenna on a 200 foot tower in your yard etc., it levels the field.

I can tell you why I am on GMRS often. Availability, coverage and the people using it. Though, that changes depending on where I am in the country. I cannot tell you how many @$$h0l3s I run into on ham radio every day. They think they are smarter than everyone else, and then use that very wrong opinion to assert their 'authority' (bad opinion stated as if it was a fact) over others. Then there are the jammers, tuner-uppers, and people just plain-ole' showing their butt. It makes me want to toss my gear in the trash some days. I don't have that problem on GMRS. On the GMRS side, we have local person here who used their personal time and money to put up repeaters on every pair and spread them around the DC metro area, just to make it so the community has something to use in an emergency (he's actually the opposite of what the jerks are in Ham radio). Thanks to this person, there are 90+ miles of continuous coverage edge to edge; more than 6300 square miles. You can double that coverage if you tolerate a 60%-70% reliability rate. There isn't a single amateur radio repeater or club network that can match his coverage. As far as who I talk to, my son is the only person in my family that has a Ham license and he doesn't even own any amateur radios. My wife let hers expire more than a decade ago. There are a small handful of friends that have their Ham license, but are rarely on the air. Now, on the GMRS side, I literally have several dozen family and friends that are on GMRS or use FRS while we are out doing things together. The lack of testing, the affordable gear and the fact that people like me are in their life to help with technical stuff, so they don't have to actually learn anything to simply use the radio, is a huge draw to them. Many of them refuse to get their amateur radio license. Side note on why I hate Ham Radio: Before you read this... it may be long and boring, which is why I put it after the more relevant part of the post. It is still relevant, because its a great example of why I as a Ham, prefer GMRS. As you read this, keep in mind that on the amateur frequencies from 144 MHz to 148 MHz, FM signals are just a little more that 16 KHz wide on a properly running radio. Also, based on the 16 KHz wide signal, the proper technical spacing between occupied frequencies is 20 KHz. However, for some reason the community in about half the country opted to use 15 KHz channel spacing instead, which leads to overlap and interference. Jerks in Ham radio never cease to amaze me. I have an example from just a few days ago, while I was talking to a traveler on 146.520. For our non-Ham friends, this is a calling frequency. Meaning if you are looking for someone to talk to, you go to that frequency to call for other operators, and many operators listen here to chat, too. Once you make contact, its customary to move the conversation to another frequency, but not required. Often it is used continuously for hours at a time for contests and special events, or just for a couple of people to just chat. I was talking on 146.520 to a person who was on the highway, traveling through the area on his way from PA to FL. Total conversation was 6 minutes. I figured it would be best to stay on that frequency, rather than to distract the driver by having him figure out how to adjust his radio while driving on the highway. Especially since at 65-70 mph, it wouldn't be long before I couldn't hear him. I had a guy come to 146.520 and yell at me because we were tying up "the calling frequency" instead of moving to another frequency. He was also very mad because I was using about 200 watts and was splashing him and his friends on 146.535. He was calling me names and generally being very rude. Well, I am not surprised he could hear me on 146.535, because (as mentioned earlier) a proper signal is a little more that 16 KHz and he was only 15 KHz away from 146.520. Him and his friends should have picked the better channel spacing of 20 KHz (146.540) or more, so there was no overlap. The power I was using was not an issue, because I could hear him splashing me... and I am assuming it was the overlap, not his power levels. Among other things I can't type in a family friendly forum, he said my gear was crap and I am a bad operator who shouldn't even be on the radio because I was splashing him so bad that he couldn't talk to his friends. He said that he hates new operators, can't believe they don't teach new people better manners and to follow the rules. When I told him he didn't know what he was talking about and I was an operator for 20+ years, his answer was that he was a Ham for more than 60 years and knows more then new guys like me. LOL The funny part of the whole situation is, in his eyes I'm the jerk who doesn't know anything and shouldn't be on the radio, but he was the one attacking me and insulting me while HE was using bad practices of not using proper channel spacing, being at least 20 KHz away from the most popular coordinated VHF frequency in amateur radio. This stuff NEVER happens to me on GMRS.

I heard a rumor that the YouTube GMRS Queen will be making a video about this radio very soon.

Recently promoted from Youtube hobo to Youtube vagabond.

For more information go to YouTube and do a search for NotaRubicon. I think you will find what you are looking for. He is some hobo that has a lot of videos, many dealing with that type of radio. You will occasionally find him on a GMRS forum. He seems like an alright guy no matter what Some People may say...

What applies to ships at sea also applies to vehicles on the ground. Many years ago, after working on vehicle mounted radios for the military, I went to work for the oil industry, and radios aboard a fleet of ships. Well antenna gain issue cropped up often, as many think more gain means more "amplification" of receive signal, not realizing that it is also the radiation pattern impacting signal as BoxCar mentions. Very often, someone would place a 12 dB gain antenna on a small vessel and it had trouble talking to a larger vessel, even when in line of sight and close in distance. An isotropic antenna would radiate like a sphere, while a 3dB gain antenna may radiate like a doughnut, 6 db gain antenna like a pancake, a 9 dB antenna like a thick tortilla or naan bread, and a 12 dB antenna like an LP record. So, with a 12 dB gain antenna on a small vessel, and a 0-3 dB gain antenna on a large ship, the only reliable communication (due to height differences between vessels) is when the little one is bobbing around and the radiation (transmit for smaller vessel and receive for larger) match up. This is where height and a 0-6dB antenna are much more useful, as they both have transmit and receive patterns that can reach other stations. Power is also an issue, as more power in a more focused radiation pattern can mean more distance. Cars and fixed radio stations are impacted the same way. When it comes to wattage and a mobile radio, Part 90 radios in use by public safety, commercial use, and hobby use are often limited to about 50 watts. Motorola, Vertex, Icom, Kenwood, mobiles are often 25/40/50 watts. Attached is a lab kit for Radio over Internet Protocol, with a Motorola XPR4550 UHF 40 watt mobile shown. I used Motorola mobiles for GMRS, with my CDM1550LS+ at 50 watts. GMRS radios usually max out around 50 watts too. Radiation exposure specifications will usually specify 6 foot or so (sometimes less) of separation between people and antennas in the UHF range at 50 watts. 50 watts mobile, with RG-58, and the shorter run in a vehicle than up a high mounted fixed antenna will get you ten to twenty miles, depending on terrain and local conditions. I myself usually run about 10 to 20 watts mobile and have no problem hearing people, hitting repeaters ten miles away, and transmitting back. The radio tops out at 10 watts, my RG-58 cable run is about twelve feet, and I have a decent antenna on the trunk which acts as a good ground plane. If what you have works, then let that itch go to a basestation, or a handheld that can be taken when not in your vehicle. Glad to see someone else get further into this......GMRS has taken off over the past few years for sure.

Very good question. I am utterly amazed there has not been more talk about this topic. While I am not an expert on the subject I will share what I do know. - There is no official need for DTMF in GMRS. It is a feature that can be used when you have a special need for it. - DTMF codes are commonly used to remotely control repeaters and to control other electronics that might be monitoring the frequency. - In some radio circles (outside GMRS) some repeaters and other radios might require both a tone burst to trigger a remote receiver to open up. This is a feature that equipment that long pre-dated CTCSS and DCS sometimes needed for operation. I know of no cases in GMRS where is applicable today. Perhaps someone else will have a current day example where it is being used. - Sidetones refers to the feature of your radio that allows you, the operator, to hear the tones that your radio is sending out. This could be your radio’s ANI-ID, manual DTMF from button presses, or even select-call calling tones. The term ‘Sidetone’ comes from telephony and refers to the sound emitted from the ear piece portion of the phone. If you press a button on the phone’s keypad you will hear the tones from the ear piece. In your radio, when sidetones are not active you could very well be sending out DTMF tones and have no idea that you are. If you are using DTMF for anything, turn sidetones on so you know when and what you are sending. - The ANI-ID on your radio is a number that you establish that identifies your radio. You have six digits available and values must be greater than 101. - If you have ANI-ID turned on, when you press and/or release your PTT, your ANI-ID is sent out. The BOT, EOT and BOTH values you see in one of you radio’s function menus determines if your ANI-ID is sent out when you press PTT, release PTT or press and release. - If a receiving radio has a DTMF decoder within it, your ANI-ID will appear on their display suggesting to them which radio is transmitting. - The ‘Ring’ feature is one that, when properly enabled, allows other radios in your group to cause your radio to ring to attract your attention. For this to occur, the transmitting radio must have a valid ANI-ID value configured, the receiving radio must have an ANI-ID configured, and the transmitting radio also needs to have the receiving radio’s ANI-ID entered into the Call Group it is using. So, for example, if you have two radios, one with an ANI-ID 101 and another with an ANI-ID 102, radio 101 can cause radio 102 to ring, and radio 102 can cause radio 101 to ring. The Call Group fields are where you enter the ANI-ID of the various radios you want to be able to call/ring. Think of them like speed-dial memories. For radio 101 to call 102, radio 101 would have 102 in one of its Call Group cells. - When you have one of your PF buttons configured to make a Call, that button causes two things to be sent out in rapid succession: your ANI-ID and the receiving radio’s ANI-ID. Using the 101 and 102 radio example above, this takes the form of ‘101#102’. - Some wildcards are supported in Call Groups. Instead of entering ‘101’ in a Call Group, you could enter ‘1**’. The later would case all radios whose ANI-ID begins with ‘1’ to ring. - Ringing is not enabled by default on Wouxun radios. One must expressly enable it. - One way to enable ringing is to set the current channels SP-Mute mode to “QT*DT” or ‘QT*DTMF”. Since SP-MUTE is a channel-by-channel setting you can have some memory channels configured to ring when called and others that do not. - ANI-ID needs to be programmed, but it does not need to be turned on to always send out to use the Select call feature. I have found zero Wouxun documentation or videos that covers this. Admittedly I struggled for sometime trying to piece it together. Thanks to [mention=5881]IanM[/mention] who provided some enlightenment to help me bring it all into focus. I have found some BF stuff that covers the subject a little, but terminology is slightly different. These features have, in my view, practical use in large organized group and family outings. They have also had merit, and perhaps still do, in some LMR circles. I recently have been configuring all my radios to have unique ANI-ID, and setting up Calling Groups. I have yet to work to work out the specific details of the SP-Mute mode called ‘QT+DT’ or QT+DTMF. But my current understanding is that the radio will not break squelch until it hears an ANI-ID in DTMF form and then when it does there is some other unique behavior. I will soon be exploring that and documenting its behavior. Hope this helps. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM Edit: If you to do some experimenting and to see things work with little complication do this: 1) Configure multiple Wouxun radios. Give each a unique ANI-ID starting a 101 and going up. Use 101 in your KG-935G. 2) Set each radio to GMRS channel 01 (462.5625), low power. 3) Make sure all radios are using the same CTCSS. Say 67.0 Tx and Rx. 4) Set the SP-MUTE mode for channel 01 on all radios to QT*DT. 5) On your KG-935G radio, enable sending out of the ANI-ID each time the PTT is pressed. 6) Turn all radios on. 7) Press PTT on the KG-935G and immediately press 102# and watch what happens. Then repeat using the ANI-ID for all other radios. This simulates a select call. 8) Press PTT on the KG-935G and immediately press 1** and watch what happens. 9) Press PTT on the KG-935G and immediately press *# and watch what happens. When you have made it this far and have seen ANI-ID show up on the radio displays and you have successfully experienced ringing, then move to programming your call groups in the radios if you decide you want to use them. You may also wish to explore the different behaviors you get if some radios are in the 100 series, some in 200 series and some in the 300 series of ANI-ID values. BTW, Despite PTT-ID being a menu option on the 805G, the ID is never sent out of that radio, nor will the radio ever display one if it receives one.

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