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Note that in your screen image, the only difference between the "FRS 1-7" and "GMRS 1-7" is the difference between NFM and FM bandwidth. 8-14 are IDENTICAL -- 0.5W ERP NFM. GMRS is permitted up to 5W on 1-7, and up to 50W on 14-22 (and repeater pairs); true FRS is limited to 2W NFM on 1-7/15-22 (and NO repeaters). If the radio can exceed 2W on any channel, or access repeaters, that radio is classified as a GMRS radio. Oh, and FRS-only radios are license free, GMRS requires a license. The only justification (in my mind) for duplicating the FRS NFM config is that you have a lot of associates using old (pre-2017 "FRS/GMRS") radios with NFM only. Otherwise I'd just strip out the FRS configuration and stick with GMRS FM (remember 8-14 are low power NFM in both services).

No... ALL Stations MUST ID -- a repeater is a station. There is an specific EXCLUSION for what is a private/family-only repeater, since the repeater ID would be identical to the ID used by all family members (that of the license holder). Paragraph (c) was quoted previously.

For comparison, a half-wave vertical dipole -- no ground plane required -- is twice as long as a quarter-wave vertical -- ground plane needed. That makes for more antenna sticking up to be hit by tree branches if off-road, parking garages, etc.

The Technician license is focused on regulations with just a touch of theory. This is to ensure you don't cause interference with others or misuse the privileges. You get more radio theory/practice (circuits) at the General level, and a lot more at Extra level exam. I started as a "no-good" (no-code) Tech when they created the VHF/UHF-only option decades ago. Lockheed (Sunnyvale) radio club had their own repeater, and membership to get auto-patch (telephone linking) was much cheaper than a cell-phone at the time. When they finally dropped the code requirement a decade or so ago, I spent two weeks with a General class study guide. Found an on-line practice test site. Was passing all tries with 90% scores. Tried (without study) the Extra class practice exams, and managed to pass about 3 of every 4 I did. So -- that weekend I drove up the Bay area to a license session and took both tests. I felt that if I didn't pass Extra, I could study for two weeks and get the next exam session down where I lived. Passed Extra by 1 question. There are post-2017 radios that are also NFM only... But these radios will be marked as FRS (the 2017 reorganization banned radios marked FRS/GMRS, and gave FRS the typical power of pre-2017 dual-marked bubble pack radios). My recommendation was to remove the FRS NFM config UNLESS you have a lot of associates who are using FRS radios. If most are using licensed GMRS, stick with FM setting and put up with the slight audio quality mis-match for the rare FRS user. Technically -- there is NO privacy for GMRS/MURS/FRS/Amateur. Setting a tone only controls who YOU HEAR (they have to be sending the same tone). Anyone with a radio that has no tones set will hear /everything/ on the frequency. "PL" ("Private Line") is Motorola marketing speak. To the rest of the world it is just CTCSS (Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System -- though newer systems also support Digital Coded Squelch). Granted, many radio programming software separates it as "CT" (send a tone) and "CTCSS" (send and receive tone). Skip is for scanning purposes -- it says "skip this channel when scanning" Offset is for repeaters. For GMRS it is supposed to be +5.0MHz (listen on 462, transmit on 467) Cross mode is a confusing entry -- depending upon the programming software. Some radios can be configured to use CTCSS tone in one direction and DTC tone in the other. As I recall, in CHIRP, "TONE" means SEND-only, "TONE SQUELCH" is SEND/RECEIVE. And to confuse matters, CHIRP uses different columns for the tone specification itself (my Amateur gear, OTOH, doesn't require first selecting mode, then picking tone -- just encode/decode [send/receive] tone columns, and if that column is set to "None" then no tone is used for that side).

How do you know they are on a repeater and not talking simplex?

Incorrect. They are not required to ID if it’s only being used by people under the same license (family) and they identity with that call sign. That’s it, in all other scenarios the repeater must identify as far as the FCC rules are concerned. c) Any GMRS repeater station is not required to transmit station identification if: (1) It retransmits only communications from GMRS stations operating under authority of the individual license under which it operates; and, (2) The GMRS stations whose communications are retransmitted are properly identified in accordance with this section.

They sure can. But how do you know that they are repeaters?

I run the 275 in both of my Jeeps. I used Shielded CAT6 jumpers personally between the radio and the control head. They work great for my purpose. 90% of the GMRS use in my Jeeps are jeep to jeep simplex stuff. On the rare occasion I use my repeater they work fine at 15 watts. My repeaters are narrowband and I have no issues with them and the 275. I had thought about the 575 when they said it was programmable, but when it was released with no programming didn't think it was worth swapping out just for a bit more power.

You would still be able to communicate if you don’t have that. My understanding though it is better that your settings match those that you are communicating with for a clearer reception. I personally don’t have a separate set of programmed channels just for narrow band FRS settings but if you are talking with FRS radios (bubble packs) a lot I suppose it would make sense to have it if you got the room.

The differences between RG8 and LMR400 are fairly great. In fact their similarities are fewer than their differences. They share the same outside diameter. They are both 50 ohm coax cable. Heres a website that discusses the differences. https://www.utmel.com/components/rg8-vs-lmr400-faq-differentiate-the-differences-between-them?id=1969#cat6

https://www.qsl.net/co8tw/Coax_Calculator.htm Handy if you don't already have one bookmarked. If it were me, I would get 40 or 50 feet of LMR400 and put the antenna on the end of the house. Getting your antenna outside and up higher will more than likely offset any loss of power due to the longer coax run. But get *good* coax.

All GMRS and FRS radios manufactured since 2017 use/share the same frequencies for channels 1-22 which are simplex, so yes, you will be able to say "go to channel 7" and talk with everyone as long as someone didnt buy one of those shitty radios that comes pre-programmed with tones/codes (most do not).

More Power does not necessarily = Better. Frequency stability, hum, distortion, audio fidelity, deviation envelope - those things matter too. To paraphrase an old timer - if you sound like an angry Donald Duck trapped inside a tin outhouse - does it really matter how many watts you're pumping out?

I would hazard a guess here that the "awful habits" brush you paint the general ham radio community with is that hams tend to talk more, and that "awful habit" doesn't fit with the GMRS service. Ragchewing on a GMRS repeater is probably not part of the use case for GMRS, but the reality is that it happens. Remember that they are two different services, with at times completely different use cases. As a GMRS user, I keep my transmissions short and sweet, usually on a repeater that I am a paid user of. As a ham, my ham friends and I carry on discussions on my repeater that last quite a while. I have no intention of unlearning anything. What I do is treat each radio service with common sense, and use each one for what it's pretty much intended for, paying special attention to the rules and guidelines of the repeater owner. There are GMRS people here who cannot stand hams, and there are hams here who have a hard time with GMRS folks. Then there are those of us in the middle with dual citizenship who can't quite figure out why either side is sniping at the other side, and who would much rather see everyone play nice.

Hello GMRS "gang", After a few postings and reflection, it is clear that GMRS owners need to make an orientation video, and/or hold a group zoom for new users before allowing access. This will be my approach 100%. In this meeting or video, politely addressing operational guidelines and expectations up front would really help! Because new users have no idea what to do, and seasoned and fresh "hammy's" are already going down the wrong path, sound mentorship is the answer. Not a rigorous military drill set, but a practical and open discussion. New users WANT to know what to do, and many "hams" think they know what to do. It is an unhealthy combo for sure. It's about getting along, sharing the resource, and not making the repeater owner want to get two sticks and gouge their eardrums out...

The mount is the same mount that is used to mount a satellite dish TV antenna with an additional brace.

The simplex frequencies are exactly the same as the frequencies the repeaters transmit on. Unless you hear a repeater ID you might have no way of knowing they are not simply talking using simplex.

A repeater that hasn't had an update in over a year.

From what I'm finding, all things equal, an antenna with a ground plane will have some advantage over one without. You can realize some of that advantage by providing it a ground plane, but some installations it just isn't feasible. I will say on the ham side, I've noticed no difference moving from a comet 2x4sr mag mounted on the roof to a sbb5 on the fender, other than the rfi the sbb5 picks up being so close the led headlight bulbs.

I like the idea of controls on the mic as well. Retevis has one now also. I think it’s 20 watt. Looks like it has RX on the lower wattage 8-14 channels. Midland doesn’t bother to put them in since you can’t TX on them. I’m not ready to pull the trigger on the mobile yet, I’ve been just watching what comes out. I’m sure as soon as I’ve made a decision and purchase something new will come along ?

While the owners can talk in more detail, my first thought with all of the ground plane locations being compromised/shaded by the body, my thoughts always go to no-ground-plane required stuff. https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas I'm a fan of laird, too... https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas/6536-laird-connectivity-bb4502nr-detail

I can kind of understand why. LMR400 is generally marketed as a drop in replacement for RG8. In most aspects it could be considered an upgrade. I can also see your reasoning in considering LMR400 to be a subset of RG8.

Here is my setup with a lightning arrestor and grounded to earth ground at the electrical panel.

That’s really a definitive work on lightning protection and grounding of radio installations and I usually mention it, but one thing it doesn’t discuss is bonding to an existing residential service. It’s absolutely the best though for someone designing a repeater installation up on a mountain.

LMR-400UF is one variety of RG8, as are LMR-400 and Belden 9913 and others. It's like "All beagles are dogs, but not all dogs are beagles". ?

Great thread, and thank you all for sharing. I also use many DTR410's as well as some DTR550/650 radios and always keep a watch out for compatible models that are cheap, but this has served as a warning "buyer beware". I like the range and privacy options of the DTR series radios and often see DLR series radios available for sale, but do often wonder on the reason they are being sold so cheaply. Have been describing to co-workers on global projects how the Motorola XPR7550e is the XiR8668 in Asia, and the DM4xxx series in Europe and how they differ even though they look the same. Then there is CPS.....another night mare at times.

Sorry I should have said LMR-400UF. Very easy to work with. I think there is slightly more loss, but that's a fair trade-off for the flexibility. There are a number of good sources for coax but I prefer The Antenna Farm. They have pre-made cables in several lengths or you can custom order the exact length you need. https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/coaxial-cable/coaxial-cable/prefabricated-coax-cable-assemblies Select "RG8" then the connectors you need and LMR-400UF is under there.

a little lite reading on grounding https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/Lands_ROW_Motorola_R56_2005_manual.pdf as to mast- while I agree EMT is a poor choice I have used 1" aluminum for many yrs on lightweight antennas (sub 6 lbs and <8') pretty much anything that has a bending moment of less than 75 ft/lbs. Most of the antennas that are made for our purposes fit that description.

Not so far (knock on wood), and we've had some pretty good wind storms including one with gusts up near 70.

Page 10 might be a better fit for your case. It depicts a separate tower and does indicate #6 wire, but notice the additional ground rod. Yes, the bonding conductor should be buried.:

Thanks for the reminder of my signature. I did remove it and had forgot it was there. Did not want to insult you, as if I did it would be done directly only. You had posted some thoughtful comments that I appreciated. My radio friend and I have known each other since age 11, and we have called it this since that time and referred to CB as "chicken band" at the same time. One time we saw a guy pull a spiral cut ham out of the fridge, jam an upside down coat hanger into the top, and then a microphone into the front and key the mic, develop an intense stare, push his hat back on is head and say, "CQCQCQ"... We just don't take ourselves that serious. Alas, can't please everyone.

I hope to move the antenna to the attic some day, but for now it's a 43" or so fiberglass encased antenna. 3dbd gain, on a little stand next to the window in the same room as the radio. 30 to 35 miles to the repeater, good audio reports with 5W. For the antenna, I chose one with an N-female connector, and premade RG8 coax with N to 259 at each end, and a little 18" 259 to SMA adapter cable. I got a cheaper brand of antenna but probably should have gotten a more expensive version for better internal connections. Really, you might do just fine with a short coax to the antenna in the same room instead of going across the house to gain 5' of height. You also don't have to worry about grounding and weather and mounting. And the exact antenna placement matters. In a busy suburban area, a few inches left or right makes a big difference due to multipath. Easier to adjust if the antenna is indoors.

Google found me a couple other options that aren't directly using the bulletpoint mount... Panavise appears to have a few options depending on the details of the truck (and dash screen) https://www.panavise.com/index.html Proclips also has a couple for left or right side of the dash near the HVAC vents. https://www.proclipusa.com/products/855441-proclip-angle-mount-dodge-ram-2019-20xx I added a couple shots from my truck (ham setup); this is the icom mounting plate on a panavise bracket that tucks in between the HVAC controls and the trim.

Yes, if you set a frequency with no tones and another GMRS (or even FRS) radio goes to that same frequency you will be able to talk to each other. All GMRS radios should be capable of tuning the frequencies you have with GMRS in their name. All GMRS radios are capable of using simplex.

What is the roof itself made of? Are there any metal conduits/duct-work nearby (especially the latter -- you can probably avoid conduits okay)? I basically am living in a Faraday cage -- metal roof and aluminum siding.

buttholejim is what I'm called in polite company... But you can call me worst things. My wife certainly does... I watched Randy's video... twice. There was no mention of the type receiver. But I am old, half deaf, and can't see worth a crap at anything closer than an arms length away. Thank god I get such great free healthcare at the VA.

As others have mentioned, codes, hidden messages and transmitting a false or deceptive communication are all rule violations. I think 10-codes are allowed because they are so heavily used, documented and well known that it's not really considered code, but more like shorthand for voice.

Yup, cell phone antennas.

Cell phone antennas, right? https://dgtlinfra.com/cell-tower-locations-4g-lte-5g-towers/

One of the things that you’ll quickly learn, either by recommendation here or by use there, is that power is highly overrated as a predictor of range. A good receiver that has both sensitivity and selectivity and a good antenna are much much more important than getting an 8 watt output radio versus a 5 watt radio.

That’s not inclusive!!! You must say “Radiosy Radios”.

To get a commercial license or LMR license you need a reason. A home repair shop is a valid excuse and will allow you to apply for a frequency. In the LMR world a license is mostly for 1 frequency. Not a huge block like GMRS or Ham. In public safety world you can apply for multiple as well as in business LMR. Location will dictate what frequencies are available in your area and what sections of frequencies you can apply for. All Part 90 frequencies require coordination so even if you fill out the 601 your self it needs to go to a frequency coordinator for approval prior to the FCC. There are various frequency coordinators for public safety, business, etc. Each one will require a fee on top of your FCC fee. When I did alot of these for work we would quote $500 for 1 frequency. Many came in around that but the last channel I did was $250 per frequency (460/465 mhz) so it was $500 just in coordination plus FCC fees as well as our fees for our work. Public Safety still pays coordination fees, but is exempt mostly from the FCC fee. The other major issue is location. Some locations have no frequencies available and frequency reuse happens. Also above Line A requires all FCC licenses to go to Canada. Our last SAR frequency was in Canada for almost 2 years until we got approval.

That’s the “Hello, World” of two way radios! Good job!

I hold an "H" license, my wife doesn't, I do not know everything. She thinks I am a nerd, but I am a good cook and provider so she keeps me. Got my GMRS license this week. I got it because on "H" bands I am a CW operator. I don't even own a VHF or UHF radio at this time. We are going to buy, eventually, 2 decent GMRS HTs and I would like to eventually establish a GMRS base station in our location. I thought I might want to build a repeater, but that urge has passed. I am in the foot print of INDY 600 so we don't really need an open repeater here. Good, saves me money for other toys. I have been monitoring GMRS freqs for about a year, I feel like I know some of you already, and for the most part everyone seems to get along and are very friendly. So I have requested access to a couple repeater systems, and await the reply patiently. I look forward to being on the system, and being able to communicate with my wife when she is not within cell phone reach. I am perfectly happy to be mentored on the proper protocols of GMRS use. I have a child living in Mooresville and one in Decatur Township (Indianapolis) and I plan on getting them to jump on the GMRS bandwagon if this works out well for my wife and I. ?

Yeah but video killed the radio star ?

When repeaters are linked to 20 others then it almost seems like the intention is to be more social, and not so much only about short comms with family and close friends.

Absolutely, as well as bandwidth. GMRS has a very limited number of set frequencies, so proper etiquette often dictates short transmissions and like you said, short-distance communications, whereas ham radio has an incredibly wide range of available frequencies and modes across numerous bands, and covers everything from short distance simplex to global communication. Where the OP is going off the rails is by driving that overused wedge farther between ham and GMRS, as so often happens here. Truth be told, I'm sitting here listening to a couple of guys on a GMRS repeater here in SoCal who have been ragchewing for the better part of an hour.

As a "new user", I could not agree more.

I resemble that remark.

I've pealed off the Mylar on a bunch of magnet mounts. A good replacement is using some of the aluminum duck tape you can buy at the home improvement store. It sticks like crazy and is easy to trim off using a sharp blade. Also being aluminum it helps couple the antenna to the metal roof.