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No, it has not, and never has been "illegal".. It violates the FCC rules, which are not laws and are not subject to criminal prosecution. Please take a moment to learn the difference between RULES and LAWS... I know this is a pedantic point to make, but if I've learned anything from you, it is that being pedantic is very very important..

You can communicate whatever info you received as an amateur station on GMRS because the second you key up on GMRS you have become a GMRS station communicating with another GMRS station. The meer act of using GMRS makes you a GMRS station communicating with another GMRS station, you are no longer an amateur station. This works the opposite direction as well. There’s also the first amendment which I’m sure takes precedence.

Prohibited: 1733 (b) GMRS stations must not be used for one-way communications other than those listed in § 95.1731(b). Initial transmissions to establish two-way communications and data transmissions listed in § 95.1731(d) are not considered to be one-way communications for the purposes of this section. and 1731(b) says this: (b) One-way communications. The operator of a GMRS station may use that station to transmit one-way communications: (1) To call for help or transmit other emergency communications; (2) To provide warnings of hazardous road conditions to travelers; or, (3) To make brief test transmissions. But no rules prohibit relaying messages received on one service by using another service. So you and I could have a conversation on GMRS and I could then have a conversation on 2 meters with Gil @WRUU653 operating as KO6BIK and I could relay the message to him.

But with GMRS you’re going out of service. Operating split with hams who have different allocations is within the same service.

This may be difficult to read, but other people ARE allowed to make choices that are different from the ones you'd make. No one's ever bought the right radio for you. Now someone's bought the wrong vehicle? C'mon man.

First thing to understand is what is fair to good signal level in the radio. -95 dBm is whats required for an ERRS for in building public safety coverage. That's a noise free solid signal. -105 is the very beginning of noise in the receiver on a WIDE BAND FM signal a typical radio will hit 12dB Sinad at somewhere around -112 to -115 dBm that should be a full copy signal with noticeable static in the background. So now we get to structure attenuation. And that's going to depend on the structure, and the materials used. Assuming here that you have a standard stick build (wood 2X4) framing. Drywall interior finish and vinyl or wood siding exterior. The reason I know it's not stucco is that is applied to chicken wire which has MORE attenuation than the vinyl siding. Metal siding is higher yet. And the house is a bit older as the windows are probably not E-glass which has a very high attenuation level, comparable to sheet metal. Stick build vinyl is going to have somewhere around 10dB of attenuation, stucco is around 20dB and metal is going to be 30dB plus. I have walked building that were sheet metal exterior next to a transmit site (less than a mile) and had no usable (less than -105dBm signal level inside the building) with a -50dBm signal outside. And hearing the repeater isn't what really tells me the attenuation level. It's the fact you can talk to the repeater. The portable output signal is down at LEAST 12 dB from the repeater, assuming that you are running at 50 watts out, losses getting that down 4 to 6 dB in the cable and duplexer, and a modest gain antenna. The portable has 4 watts, and no real gain from the antenna. It's all numbers. power out - duplexer loss - cable loss + antenna gain = ERP ERP - path loss - building attenuation +/- antenna gain = signal in the radio All that should be calculated in dB. Convert the power output from watt's to dBm and then run the numbers. They will be right as long as the information is correct and will never lie.

This mule ain't even tired yet, but I believe the issue is resolved.

The operative word there is Stations . People are not stations. If I receive a message on my GMRS station, that’s the end of the communication as far as the FCC is concerned. If I then transmit a message on my amateur radio station to another amateur radio station that’s a new message. The FCC has almost no interest in the actual message; they only regulate the airwaves (there are some kinds of messages that they prohibit but they’re prohibited from being transmitted via radio stations in the first place.) It’s absurd to think that I cannot relate information that I heard on one service (whilst following the rules) using another service for which I am licensed. But this would certainly be an easy question to ask of the FCC: “If I hear something during a GMRS communication, may I repeat it on a different service for which I am also licensed as long as the content of the message is not prohibited?”

Found this on Amazon. I’m finding a smidgeon of truth in it…

Well, honestly I'm usually holding a cold beverage in both hands. That way I don't have to get up as often.

If meth's illegal, how's my local drug dealer still in business?

Oh, that won't be very popular.

Gee, that's might be hard to do. Have two radios and a cold beverage, but only two hands. Got to make a hard choice what to hold on too.

My "ham shack" consists of a chair on my front porch with one GMRS HT radio (locked to GMRS frequencies) and one HAM HT radio (locked to HAM frequencies) and a cold beverage. I can talk on both (which I am properly licensed for) from the same chair.....usually. Might have to get up and move 5 feet for better signal.

No no you can do it! If you break the louvres off you can stuff Baofengs in the air vents and also they will stick to the dash in the desert heat. Also a rubber band or one of those hair tie thingys your wife or girl friend has will hold an extra one firmly in the ash tray… you can do it, totally.

I did spend (less than) $170 on the GMRS radio and amp combo that you originally suggested should have been a single 50w radio. The other radio is a ham unit and wasn't a part of the conversation. You are obviously an abrasive, insecure prick and Ive seen you trolling others here. Are you that miserable of a person that it makes you feel better to criticize others ? Pathetic... and congrats on being the first jackwad to be on my ignore list.

Yep, need premium to post classified ads, though not to reply. https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/5102-new-feature-classifieds/?_rid=2738

Hopefully it will be as much fun, too!

This is just ridiculous. Along with everything else you just said.

Man, that looks like some kind of expensive RC.

That’s called broadcasting and it is not permitted. That’s why you are not permitted to talk between services.

No, @LeoG that's not what it means. Messages are just information - there is no rule to stop that. In fact it is a standard part of emergency comms. Besides the example already given above, it does mean you can't have a conversation half on one service and half on another, as if I talk to you on 2m and you reply back on GMRS. (Short test messages like that are OK though.)

Nice we looked at a nice LJ that was actually automatic, but with my time on the road didn't think I'd have time to get everything done before April so a 3/4 done jeep was what we got. Luckily one we found was a one owner 100% mall crawler (whinch doesnt even have power cables to it). We plan to remove all the mall stuff and put some real stuff on it. Just ordered new BFG MT last night for all the way around. Going to miss the old school MT...

The regulation means the two services are not allowed to connect to each other using their assigned frequencies. A GMRS station is not allowed to use a cross-band repeater to retransmit traffic from any other service and the amateur service is not to use cross-band repeaters to carry traffic from any other service. This particular regulation just spells out specific services.

As you have pointed out the Tidradio is a pc of junk and you would never buy one. Well, they do have some lacking in the firmware and the company is actively working with the radios to improve them. And updating the firmware is the way they do this. Most of the radios you have from the 90s are only programmable by computer while the new radios are self contained for the most part and are much more complicated and coded than the radios from yesteryear. So glad to hear all the radios you've ever purchased in your life are perfect with zero defects. Congratulations.

Well, i got the green light from the wife to build another rock crawler. This one is going to include some nice VHF/UHF comms, too. Just not sure if I'm going to stick HF in it. I feel like I won't need it, unless I'm wheeling with someone who is still running a CB. Of course, I know a few people with CBs, but no one uses them offroad. I am pretty sure I am going to install the MXT500 due to its IP rating. The Jeep won't have any roof or doors once it's done. Shoot, im not even sure if it will have a windshield when it's done. LoL Anyone aware of a different, affordable and readily available GMRS/UHF mobile radio that I should consider? IP66 or better and 20+w? This is what I picked up. 1997 Wrangler TJ. This is roughly what it will look like when its done.

No idea what any of this is referring to. Could this be the real issue? Back to this thread though. From where I sit you stated your thoughts and opinions and why. The back and forth seemed cordial and not emotional with things ending in an understanding. @SteveShannon actually comes full circle on his first post in the thread with a second mention on the definition of a station. Yes there were some side line comments from the gallery not worth taking seriously or personal. While I didn’t subscribe to your point of view, you made a good case without being an ass. That approach deserves a honest discussion and should be welcomed. You do seem like a good guy. If the forum isn’t working for you I respect that but I hope you’ll consider staying.

Hans, I hope you don’t leave. Although I didn’t agree with your initial conclusion I don’t mind discussing the issue. People should be adult enough to ignore subjects they believe have run their course. Steve

I really don't want to see you leave. I think you're a nice guy and you contribute a lot here. I think you're just taking my comments and the comments of others entirely too serious. Steve and I disagreed on something. We had a conversation about it. Nobody got offended because the other guy had a different opinion. That's just normally how adults do it.

Then you should have left a long.. long time ago...

I'll tell you want i think. In the end, no one gives a damn what the rules say, they do what they want or think they can get away with. Even the people who don't publicly admit it due to work, or position in the community, etc., fall into this category. I think the entire conversation is theater, boredom or both. Carry on.

I will give two examples. One is legal and the other is not. Remember I am licensed for amateur and GMRS. First example - legal Three way conversation between myself, an amateur station (station A) and a GMRS station (Station B). I am talking to station A on 2m and am asked to relay a message to station B on GMRS. Or visa versa. This is 100% legal for me to do since I am having two way communication between myself and Station A. I then pass the message to Station B on my GMRS radio, again two communication. This is 100% legal between Station A and myself since we are both licensed for amateur bands. Again 100% legal between Station B and myself since we are both licensed for GMRS. Second example - illegal Two way conversation between Station A with only an amateur license and Station B with only a GMRS license. Neither one can transmit on the other band since they do not hold the correct license. Both would be having a one way conversation as far as the bands they are authorized to use. This is one type of broadcasting. And we all know that cross band repeating from one service to another service is illegal no matter if you hold a license for both. And yes it can be done with an unlocked radio for emergency situations ONLY.

That ^^^^ Since the purpose and intent of ham and GMRS are drastically different, it makes sense that the privileges are also drastically different and shouldn't be mixed. Listening is one thing, broadcasting is another, and two-way communications is yet another.

No I guess not...... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks? Maybe the license should require a test......................

A distinction that I would not notice, if you hadn't pointed it out. Fishing for knowledge in the wrong creeks . Getting some strong bites now!!

The interesting thing about the rules is it simply states that the repeater input frequencies and output frequencies have to be picked from the allowed list. Note the rules say nothing about any kind of required frequency shift. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1763 There is no requirements the input and output frequencies must be 5MHz apart. While that is the usual case it's not required. One could really frustrate users of preprogrammed, firmware locked, GMRS radios by selecting a pair of frequencies, from the allowed list for repeaters, that are not using a 5MHz split. Any talk about how that would affect channel sharing is another topic.

I disagree on two counts. First, you’re not an idiot. Second, any time you transmit without an expectation of a response that’s a one-way transmission. That’s why the regulations go into so much detail about which one-way messages are allowed: 97.111 (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications: (1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station; (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations; (3) Telecommand; (4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency communications; (5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning, or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code; and (6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins. (7) Transmissions of telemetry. Having a conversation with a GMRS station consists of two one way transmissions, not two way communications.

As long as I keep the voltage proper it'll be just fine. I currently have it on constant voltage at 14.5v and the current will vary and get lower as it charges. The BMS will take care of it if something goes awry and shut the battery down.

That's a winning answer, @SteveShannon!

Nope. Even the USCG doesn't rag chew on 16. If they have something to say -- other than "Get off this channel, captain!" -- it's referring you to 22 where announcements are made. These days the announcements are often about staying away from the Cape coast during a launch.

I think you have to be premium to do that.

I came home from work, and man, this thread delivered for my nightly wind-down...

Things sure did get over complicated and for no real good reason. It's simple to understand. Don't broadcast, don't transmit on a band/service you are not licensed for, and don't cross band repeat from one service to another service.

This. As defined in 95.303 Maybe the dead horse flogging will now cease?

Let us know. I'll be in Uwharrie a few times this coming year. I have the annual pass on our jeeps. Need to get a 2025 one for the new jeep when they come up. For Jeep Jamborees we booked, Tennesee Mtns (Windrock) for spring, Coal Mountain in the summer and Cumberland and Uhwarrie for the fall. Most likely will do Greenbriar as well but thats 3 weekends in a row of trips. We also plan to do the SFWD events in the sping (Coalmont TN) and fall (Windrock). Be a fun summer. I know most on this forum despise midland but I just grabbed another 275 for the new jeep. With the "offroad promo code" it was $132. That made more sense than ripping the old one out of the other JK. Plus I'd like to keep the old JK anyway. Only other radio planned will be a FTM400 which I already have in a box. I had picked it up used for the other JK and never got to it. No APX in this JK...at least yet. I normally just grab my APX Next anyway now so no need for a mobile.

Okay @SteveShannon ... I'm tracking. That makes sense.

That's kind of the way I've read it too. I consider broadcasting like music or a show, not just sentences periodically. They ain't coming for you anyway. How do they know you aren't talking simplex and they just can't hear the other person?

Asphalt and 3 wood doors and one metal. I have another repeater that makes it into the house but I can't hit it from inside the house.

Thank you for the information and putting it into perspective. I am no longer paranoid about the temperatures or the SWR readings I am experiencing.