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if your HT can't get 200 miles right out of the box it should go directly into the garbage can. Source: Rheet-hard

Don't forget that he has 1998 reasons why Midland and Wouxun radios are total junk. Or are we up to 4995 reasons now.

I just recently purchase the KG-1000G+ and today we had our repeater net. After it was over I tasked the net master with some questions about performance of the radio. I did a 5, 20, 50 watt check into the repeater 21 miles out. He said R9 on all three. I assume that because I swapped from a 7.2dBi to a 9.8dBi antenna and swapped out some M&P hyperflex13 to 1/2" Heliax hardline. I always had a hard time getting into the repeater using 5 watts on the old setup. And then I asked about the microphone. I did a check basically kissing the mic, 6-8" away and 12-14" away. He said when I was at a foot he noticed the modulation tapering off. That 6-8" seemed best. With the KG XS20G+ I have to kiss the mic to get a good modulation out of it. My TD H3 has a far better modulation profile than the 20G. It also has an adjustable mic gain.

I have set up sort of an network in my neighborhood. Now mind you geographically it's an area of about 4 blocks north to south and 6 blocks east to west. Not a large area. In addition it is a long established neighborhood with a lot of older residents who have been here for decades. It's a mix of Los Angeles City and unincorporated Los Angeles County. Jurisdictional issues are fairly frequent with both agencies at times saying it wasn't their area. Sadly, typical for SoCal today. This was motivated by a home invasion not long ago. The mother and child were home alone in the evening. It took the LAPD over an hour to respond. She did get a hold of a neighbor a few doors down after about 10 minutes on 911 hold. By then the invaders had left. The idea is simple. Folks have GMRS handhelds. We have a dedicated frequency. There are a lot of retired folks who can monitor the frequency. There currently isn't any established roster of who and when. But turns out there are more than enough to have it covered 24/7. Had our neighbor just called on a radio there could have had several "experienced" guys there in a minute or two at most. Most folks who are on the network have bought their own HT's. For others several of us have donated HT's. Obviously not everyone is onboard. You still have folks who insist that the police can protect them. This with clear evidence to the contrary. Now there is nothing on paper. No one has a list of folks or anything else. But it has already proven useful in several "property" crimes. Just neighbors helping neighbors. A lot like it was when I was growing up. Back then a kid got banged up (happened frequently when we used to "play" outside) you could go to any house and the adult there in would take care of you. Today that rarely happens due to fear of litigation.

High Frequency (HF) amateur bands have the greatest range, but propagation can vary. Yesterday I was easily able to talk to a ham many hundreds of miles away (Butte, MT to Chelan, WA), but at the same time I could not hear a ham who was thirty miles away in Anaconda, MT because our signals were passing over each other’s heads. GMRS has no range advantage over amateur UHF. Neither does amateur UHF have a range advantage over GMRS. Their ranges are practically identical. But, there are many times more amateur repeaters than there are GMRS repeaters and unlike GMRS the amateur repeaters may be linked together in networks. On Saturday I used my 70 cm handheld and talked to a repeater 30-40 miles away which was linked to a worldwide net at the time.

I agree with @WRKC935; you shouldn’t feel that way. Hopefully my answer didn’t contribute to you feeling that way. I hope you ask more questions and I hope someday you enjoy helping others here. There will always be those people who attempt to make themselves feel better by attempting to make someone else feel worse. @Socalgmrs is one of those people. He especially relishes trolling newcomers. You did nothing wrong! One of the features of the forum software is the ability to place other users on an ignore list. SocalGMRS is on my ignore list because I enjoy not seeing his trolling.

In an effort to replicate "field conditions" I threw an Abbree tactical tape measure antenna into a tree in my yard about 15-20' up and connected it to the repeater with 40' of KMR400 coax. Unsurprisingly, the results were very terrain-dependent. To my S/SW, Red Hill blocks my signals pretty effectively and I get barely 1/2 mile. To my W/NW, where the hill only partially blocks me, I got a couple of miles. To the east, I was able to get 11 miles until I went down the far side of a ridge, and to the northeast I got 13. I wasn't able to test it to the southeast or due north because there are no convenient roads. Considering how little altitude I had, that's pretty good. If I were on top of Red Hill, I probably could get a good 15 miles in every direction. I plan to get a 25-30' push-up mast and a better antenna for my RV, which should give reasonably good range. If I can get a good location, it should allow us to make some pretty long trail rides and stay in contact.

Thank you. That is the best answer I've seen so far. Not that I didn't enjoy any of the other's... . I knew I came to the right place.

I believe the original question was in regards to HT operation. 50w 2m SSB is way off from HT operation. Yes, I have hit a repeater on Long Island from southern Bowie when 2m ducting was present.

I grew up in So Cal (Simi Valley) in the 1960s and 1970s. Back then, the "neighborhood moms" would help you out if you rashed your face on the pavement. My wife and I left there in 1985 and moved up north to the "wild west", we we still are today. Today, my "neighborhood" is about 12-15 miles north to south and about 6 miles wide. Much of the area has very few services. In the southern portion, there are no stores, gas stations or retail businesses of any kind. Law enforcement response was measured in hours or even days until recent years. We are basically on our own down here. Many live behind tall fences and locked gates, because the tweakers will rob you blind given half a chance. BTW, I have some "experience" and don't play that game. In the rainy season, the roads flood every year and we are cut off from anything. In the summer, fires are a constant danger. This is why I would like to establish a radio network for emergencies. There are several established repeaters that easily cover this area, but the owners are all "mine, mine, mine!" centric. It is pretty sad, actually.

Ignore anyone trying to talk you into spending more money IF your current radio does what you want... and if you decide that you have grown weary of the limitations on your current radio, you will never actually get a helpful answer from that particular rheet-hard - he only knows how to type negative things and never anything that is actually helpful. You may as well put him on your block-list like everyone else does.. that way you don't have to see his stupidity and overt-acts of utter social retardation until he makes a new account and starts over.. again.. with a different name.. So IF you have decided that you want a GMRS radio without all the limitations of your Midland, there are many manufacturers to choose from like Wouxun, BTech, Radioddity (and more) - but which one is "best" depends on what it is you are looking for/want/need, so let us know what is important to you/what you are looking for in a GMRS radio and we can make some suggestions ..

Skywave propagation is a trip. Just messing around with WSPR, the sweet spot for me, in terms of signal strength is roughly between 800-1500km. Anything farther away gets weaker with distance, anything closer just passes right overhead. Of course, there are tons of variables here, and I'm working QRP, too.

HTs on the amateur bands are basically limited to VHF (6m, 2m, 1.25m) and UHF (70cm), so not really any different than GMRS (UHF). Mode (FM) and power levels are basically the same as well. It basically comes down to the things you already mentioned, like terrain, as well as antennas, availability of repeaters, etc. In my area there are a handful of GMRS repeaters, but there is at least one ham repeater in almost every city in my county alone. YMMV

The interest in GMRS as a form of emergency communication here was sparked (not a pun) by the Camp Fire in Paradise, CA several years ago. That fire wiped out nearly the entire town in less than two hours. Utilities were all overhead, nothing underground. Within a few minutes, power, landline phones and cell service were all down. Paradise is an area with poor commercial radio or cell service on a good day. On that day, there was literally nothing to let the people know what was coming and how quickly it was moving. Nearly 100 people died. Last year, the Park Fire moved up a couple of ridges over and nearly wiped out the town of Cohasset. A repeater had been set up there a couple of years prior to that fire, and at least one resident told the repeater owner that he would have died had it not been for the information provided by his GMRS radio. Sometimes, there aren't any other forms of communication available.

You shouldn't feel that way at all. There are some here that seem to relish in making derogatory or incendiary comments for no apparent reason. They fail to remember that folks that are new to radio may still be learning about radio technology and inquire about things that folks with 30 plus years of experience just take for granted. So again, welcome to radio and try to enjoy it's benefits, but like everything else, remember you might run into some individuals that aren't as friendly about it as others.

Thank you so much for the info. This might be my last time asking a question on here. I feel kind of stupid asking questions that might seem like adding 1+1 to you guys.

Could've done without the last sentence. Seemed a little condescending but thanks anyway. Some people like learning the technical aspect of things. I'm one of those people. Sorry but I don't know what I don't know.

Antennas typically consist of reactive elements and radiating elements. The reactive elements are used to match the impedance of the radio and feedline which is usually 50 ohms. The radiating element is one or more metal wires or rods that convert the signal into RF. It’s usually the most visible part of the antenna.

I just got my RepeaterID for the RT97L and they even emailed me the file I sent them for the announcement for free. https://www.repeaterid.com/store/p16/RepeaterID_RT97L.html# I got it in 3 days and very easy to use. It works great!

I put my amp in QRP mode and it's idling at 1,300 watts.

Then like OffRoaderX said purchase your own repeater and hardware. This site has them for sale, you could support this site and your local small communities, all in 1 swoop.

Again it is going to depend on your location, terrain, amount of trees and buildings, etc. More realistic simplex range for 70cm and GMRS is going to be 2-10 miles, again depending on your surrounding and location. We have guys check into our weekly 2m simplex net from as far away as 55 miles straight line. They definitely are using beam antennas up high on towers and there is a good chance they are also running amplifiers too. I know we do have guys that check into the 2m simplex net that are 40-45 miles away and they are not using any type of amplifier and they are using vertical antennas. Again location and height of the antenna plays a key part on how far one can be heard. My dual band antenna is a GP-9 with the base at 22 feet above the ground. The farthest I have talked to anyone on 70cm or GMRS using my 50 watt mobile radio on a simplex channel/frequency to another using a base station with a vertical antenna at least 30 feet above ground has been about 25 miles. But that is pushing it. I use a short Comet SBB-1 NMO dual band antenna and a short Tram 1174 antenna tuned for GMRS on my Ford Escape. Now talking to someone 18-22 miles from my base radios to their base radios is normally not a problem when using 70cm and GMRS. There are a lot of variables on how far you can get out using VHF/UHF such as type of antenna, antenna height, your location and local terrain, etc. To answer the original question, you won't get out any farther using the 70cm amateur band compared to using GMRS when the radios and antenna setups are the same as far as power output and antenna height.

The LEARN SYSTEM is the Law Enforcement Associated Radio Network. LEARN was form about 40 plus years ago by Law Enforcement Officers to have private social network of GMRS repeaters, which I'm sure they have included Amateur Radio Repeaters for Law Enforcement Officers to use while traveling. The conversations or QSOs that I hear on the LEARN SYSTEM is exactly what you probably hear Amateur Radio, minus the Ten Codes, which I think the LEARN members watch too much old TV shows and movies. However, don't get me wrong, I realize that at one time, Public Safety use Ten Codes, with so many changes that has taken place. Plain speech is the standard protocol, because Ten Codes weren't universal. Maybe a Few were, but Plain Langue is the Best Practice.

A quick update...the 3rd-party cable I had ordered nearly a month ago finally arrived about 30 minutes ago. It was listed as a cable for the AnyTone AT-5888UV & AT-778UV radios. I ordered it because the photo of the pinout on the RJ-45 jack looked the same as the Midland cable I had borrowed. And it works! I can read from and write to the radio. It was $11 on Amazon. Now I can fix my radio if it loses the split tones again. However, I will still be looking to replace this radio.

It is an HT, I doubt there are components in there that I could service with my 62-year-old eyes. Recent capacitor replacements on much larger devices required enhanced illumination and magnification (for me).

We have our 70cm repeater antennas and GMRS repeater antennas on the same tower. The 70cm antennas are higher but the actual range is the same for both GMRS and 70CM. We get between a 30-35 mile coverage radius with the usual dead spots due to local terrain. Our 2m repeater antennas are at the same height as our 70cm antennas and we get a 80-85 mile coverage radius with it. Those ranges are all with using 50 watt mobile radios and good mobile antennas with the proper ground plane. And before "some people" state how they get 200 + miles with their GMRS radios, they live in the most perfect ideal location across wide open and flat desert terrain. Real world range will be anywhere from 15 miles to 50 miles depending on what part of the country you lie in and what the local terrain is like.

I have two KG-1000G radios along with one KG-XS20G. I have not had any issues with all three radios. The XS20G is a very nice 20 watt radio and easy to program through the radio or with a computer. Actual output power ranges from 18 watts to 25 watts. It also has the same screen and menu setup as the KG-935G hand held radio. The plus of the KG-1000G is that it is 50 watts and has a removable faceplate. That makes it nice when space is limited like in most new vehicles. It costs close to the same as the Midland MTX500 and MTX575. I have used all three and prefer the KG-1000G. A lot of people are happy with the Radioddity DB-20G. SO that is another option for you.

Overall, on average, usually, most of the time, statistically, Wouxun makes the best quality radios (that's why they cost more) - but no matter what brand you buy (of anything, not just radios), you always risk getting a dud. Might I suggest the Wouxun XS20G - i think it does everything you want, its small and costs less than the 1000g+ ... that said, I know of hundreds, if not thousands of people with 1000G radios that are very happy with them.

Law Enforcement Radio Network = LERN, or LEARN. It's a group of networked GMRS repeaters throughout New Jersey. They reach into southeastern PA, DE, & NYC. You're supposed to be Law Enforcement to use the system. Not sure if it's still linked. I rarely heard anyone on it when I used to monitor GMRS in the area. /off topic

When you create your next account, you should change your name to AntiSocialgmrs.

Learned Elmers Are Really NIce - he was describing you amd MarcSpaz Steve!

Simplex Or transmitting into a repeater is exactly the same. Some research into bands and vhf and uhf is in order however lower frequencies like the 150s where murs is goes further if all other things are equal. I know a 2w Murs HT goes about 2Xs as far as a 5w gmrs HT.

Amateur radio spans almost the entirety of the RF spectrum, and LW, MW, and HF propagation are vastly different from VHF, UHF, and other much higher frequency band propagation. GMRS uses 65cm, which is very close to amateur 70cm. For those, propagation will be virtually identical; UHF 70cm and UHF 65cm GMRS will be identical. GMRS doesn't extend into VHF. Amateur radio has bands in 2m and 6m that can be described as VHF. VHF requires bigger antennas than UHF for similar gain characteristics. VHF suffers less from attenuation by foliage. But UHF is a little better at getting through walls. Both are "line of sight." Amateur offers 10m (a lot like CB propagation -- pretty long range during periods of high sunspot activity, line of sight at other times). Amateur offers 20m, 40m, 80m, 160m. These are the bands people use to talk all over the world, but they're subject to seasonal changes, day/night changes, sunspot activity, and so on. They achieve these long distances by bouncing the radio waves off the ionosphere -- layers in our atmosphere. Requires knowledge and good technique for knowing when to use which band. Very large antennas are common, and high power levels. Not entirely reliable. You're probably asking about 2m/70cm amateur vs GMRS. And again, there, 70cm vs GMRS there's no practical propagation difference. 2m vs GMRS there can be some advantages to 2m if you have comparable gain antennas, which will be bigger. But the advantages are subtle. The fine print: I skipped over the following amateur bands: 1.25m, which is less used, but close in propagation to 2m. I skipped 900MHz and GHz bands because they're uncommon for simplex over any distance. And I skipped LW/MW, as well as 17m, 15m, and 12m amateur. 17,15,12 are going to share characteristics of 10m and 20m, but are less common bands. LW and MW require much larger equipment and are relatively niche bands. 160m is pretty close to MW though. I also skipped over MURS, because its power requirements are more limited, despite propagation being similar to 2m. 30m is useful in the same way that 20 and 40m are useful, but less common. And 60m is relatively niche. I skipped CB because at 11m, its propagation is similar to 10m, but it's a dumpster fire of crazy traffic. However, people do use CB. It's limited to 4w for AM transmissions, and 12w for SSB transmissions.

As others have said, ham UHF vs GMRS, you won't notice a difference with HTs. VHF high (2m) will get a bit further under normal conditions. VHF low (6m, 50MHz) gets to the point that an adequate antenna is the issue for HTs. It will act the same as 2m without atmospheric propagation helping, but when propagation is open, there are thousands of stories of talking across the USA on only 5w.

If I could find someone about 5 miles north of my location willing to host a repeater site, I could likely scrape up the cash to get it done. I don't think it would meet the goal if I did it where I am. These are small, rural communities in a low-income area. One has about 2,500 residents and the other (where I am) has about 350.

Ameteur bands typically, due to the ionosphere being able to propogate the longer wavelength bands better than the UHF frequencies....with the right antennas and equipment you can communicate around the world on 5w with the 11m band.... *edit* can you tell i am studying to get a ham license?

Don’t feel stupid. Ask your questions. There’s a great group of people here that are willing to help. A lot of this isn’t common sense knowledge and alot of the info online is hard to navigate for a newcomer.

I love reading the questions and answers. Keep asking! Welcome to the group! Best Regards!

No, I don't believe there are any part 97 rules which prohibit ham radio stations from transmitting on frequencies other than the ham bands. There is no certification of ham transmitters (except linear amplifiers). There are rules within some of the services which prohibit certifying transmitters for those services if they can be used on ham bands, and there are rules which prohibit using transmitters which are not certified for the service, but there are no specific rules in Part 97 that say a radio may not be tuned out of band.

I thought perhaps LEARN was an acronym for Lawrence Emergency Amateur Radio Network. He might be from Lawrence County.

The FCC doesn’t collect a physical station address for either amateur or GMRS. They’ve stated that a PO Box is fine.

Welcome to the exciting and dynamic world of GMRS! ... One word of warning: Be wary of the trolls here on the forum that tell you that you're doing everything wrong and "if your radio cant transmit 200 miles you should throw it into the trash can" ... He's just a rheet-hard, and other than him everyone here is pretty cool.

yup, you are 100% correct.

Hmm, it appears that rules do not prohibit me from putting up a repeater on the same frequency and tone that is within an ear shot of another repeater that requires permission to use as long as I don't interfere with an ongoing communication with that repeater because I can use any freq and tone I want and that other repeater owner can only whine and snivel all he wants.

Now, remember that this is coming from a guy that has an open repeater that covers 7 counties and REFUSES to take money because it's too much of a PITA to do so. YOU sir have NO idea what running a repeater actually costs. Outside of the 20 bucks a month your electric bill went up with your garage repeater that has a 5 mile range. Tower SITE.... 48K purchase price. Another 30K in electrical, roof, materials. 300 bucks a month in electric bill 200 a month in property taxes. A 300 dollar LIGHT BULB that has to be changed every 2 years. We change it ourselves or that would be a 3300 dollar light bulb. 300 for the bulb, 3000 to climb up and change it. Although at some point we will need to invest in a powered rope ascender that will 'pull' one of us up the tower when we are too old to physically climb the 230 foot ladder to access the light. Think battery drill powered winch. SO, paying 25 bucks a year, or even 10 bucks a month to access a repeater that has coverage in 7 counties is a STEAL as opposed to just the electric bill.

To some people, common sense clearly tells them it makes more sense to spend $50-100 bucks a year to utilize a well maintained repeater system that can reach across multiple counties and even states. Think about that for a minute, a repeater system with a net worth close to $50K and they only have to spend $100 year in membership fees.. As JB would say,,,, Common Mannnnnn

Been testing it with some of the other ranchers so far in heavy woods we have gotten 14 miles south and 12 miles north of me so far.

Yes, anyone licensed can transmit on any GMRS channel. BUT, you can not use MY radio without MY permission. That repeater is MY radio!

One can't charge money or prevent others from using public frequencies. What repeater owners can do is control who uses their repeaters since the repeater owners pay for the repeaters and associated maintenance costs. And repeaters are private property. It is common curtesy to join the local club that owns the area amateur repeater by paying dues it you plan on using it often. While joining and paying dues are not mandatory, most will willingly do so to help with repeater maintenance. Setting up good repeaters is not cheap, and proper maintenance isn't cheap either. While I don't agree with charging for repeater use, paying a minimal membership due that goes towards repeater maintenance is fine.

When they said use it like a base station it never entered into my mind that it would be a fully functional radio, not even once. I figured you could transmit on the channel it was currently programmed to. I started out with the RT97S and that's how that one worked and I just assumed the RPT50 would be the same. It's nice to have the microphone so you don't need to have an HT to communicate if you are in the same room as the repeater. They did change the firmware again but when I got my repeater I was able to load all 16 channels, I have 8 setup as analog and 8 set up with digital tones. So it's easy to switch if it becomes necessary and I don't have to break out into programming.