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Unless you're a superbowl-er. Their AM transmissions require the bandwidth of three CB channels.

@OffRoaderX I doubt it's going to happen, too. But, I do still support it.

There is a 16 page thread on this subject over on the Radio Reference forum that got shut down today when someone involved with the proposal got snotty with everyone that pointed out the negatives about the proposal. I'm not saying that unused portions of the VHF low band do not have their uses. But it is not the beat all fix all solution to add it to GMRS as some think. All of us that have our amateur licenses know how fickle the 6m band can be even for local communications let alone long distance coms. I've used military FM radios on the 30-70 MHz all over the world. The VHF low band works in wide open areas with no local noise floor. But get into heavy forested areas and/or mountainous terrain and you will need some type of relay station to get out very far. And just like the 6m band, you would need a high power amplifier to get out over long distances. That isn't going to happen with hand held or mobile radios. Another issue is that law enforcement in some states still use that portion of the VHF low band as a backup system. I know Missouri still does. Again, I'm not against opening up a portion of the VHF low band outside of 6m. But we have to be realistic on how it will work and the downfalls of VHF low band.

Back in my ASA/INSCOM days we used to mess with the poor hams on 6m when we were practicing ECM. Most were pretty cool once we explained that A, we weren't governed by any FCC regulations and B, we were the primary users of the band. Some got a bit "Sad Hammy" on us, but 1500 watts does wonders on VHF.

Never gunna happen... Bookmark this comment and let's follow up in 5 years so I can say "told 'ya so!" ...

That hope and $5 can get you a cup of coffee...

A lot of power supplies have an adjustment for the output voltage that ranges up to 15%. Does your supply have an adjustment? Post the model power supply and where it came from and we may be able to help you find an adjustment screw or give you better advice on what to do. I

Someone can't force you to stop transmitting on a specific frequency and using a specific tone. You have every right to use the frequencies as the repeater owners do. The only thing they can do is either change tones, move to a different frequency, or turn the repeater off when they aren't using it. I have been down that path with the FCC and civilly with an attorney. So, I leave my repeaters off when I am not using them due to an unwelcome user.

I wrote the FCC in favor of this petition and also suggested in my letter if the FCC favored this proposal they should also use this opportunity to clean up the exisitng GMRS rules and clarify existting rules. I.e. Limit GMRS repeater ownership to 3 or less, do not permit cross state GMRS Repeater ownership, clarify rules related to 'charging for use of a repeater". Rewrite current rules on Linking so that it is clear the practice is simply illegal and take the confusion of other networks out of the rules. .. This wold be a great opportunity for the FCC to clean up all the gray areas with the rules.. One of my buddies in Riverside (FCC) office says this proposal actulliy has some traction.. The more we write in favor of this the better chance it has.

its got a way better chance of happening then Linking on GMRS.. You might be wrong on this one.. I woild give it a better chance though. maybe in 2 years.. Lets Bookmark that comment... Looser buys the other a ice cold tall beer

I think it would be a good idea to have some lowband VHF channels allocated for the Personal Radio Service with repeater operation like GMRS. Finding vault and tower space and services for a lowband VHF remote repeater will be challenging and may discourage such a project. The geographical lowband plan still exist and requires frequency coordination, pursuant to Part 90 rules and regs. At this time, it doesn't appear there are any lowband VHF spectrum allocated/available for the Personal and/or Amateur Radio Services. 30 - Business Radio 31 - Forestry Conservation and Business Radio 33 - Fire 35 - Business Radio 37 - Police 39 - Police 42 - State Police Only 43 - Business Radio 44 - Some Police and Some Business Radio 45 -Police 46 - Fire 47 - Highways & Roads 48 - Utilities 49 - Business Radio 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, and 41 - These freqs are not regulated by Part 90 and the FCC. They may be allocated to and regulated by NTIA.

I wasn’t challenging you specifically but the notion in general. Edited to add: Most people think of how far AM broadcasts carry compared to how far FM broadcasts carry, but the major difference between AM and FM broadcasts is frequency. AM broadcasts are Medium Wave, 650 kHz to 1640 kHz. At those frequencies the radio waves are much more likely to skip off the atmosphere. FM broadcasts are VHF and much less susceptible to skip. Also, AM is much narrower in bandwidth which makes it easier to be detected at farther distances. The difference in distance is not a function of modulation type. So, because they are using the same frequencies, AM CB and FM CB should not be greatly different in range.

In my entire life, on any frequency, that has absolutely never been the case. From a scientific standpoint, it also doesn't make sense. The signal can travel the same distance, but you need more receive sensitivity (less noise) in order for the demodulator to extract the audio from the signal, compared to AM only needing peak amplitude above the noise floor.

What would allow an RF signal travel further if it’s AM rather than FM?

We can't be wasting perfectly good coffee around here!!!!!! I know I can't afford to waste coffee as I suffer from having too much blood in my caffeine system for the first couple of hours each day.

The more I think about this I think maybe you’re not really talking about an inverter but rather a 15 amp switch mode power supply, 110 volts AC input and 12.9 volt dc output. Is that correct?

Been wanting something to play on the 6M and 33cm/900MHz bands and found this radio. The Radtel RT-900 will actually do 18MHz to 999MHz when put on "Super Mode" and with the proper antenna tuned for the right frequency just may be the ticket for a low cost HT to mess around on Multi-Bands. Enjoy the video and thanks for watching. TN.Frank Out. Correction on 33cm/90MHz. They appear to TX but I can't get RX even with a proper antenna so they don't seem to work on 33cm.

Update on 33cm/900MHz. I now have 2 of these radios and while they do seem to TX on that Frequency there's no RX on either. Not sure if it's a firmware issue(since there is newer firmware out for them) or what but all the other Frequencies work just fine. No matter what the manufacture states they will do all the other Frequencies that I stated except 33cm/900MHz. Here's the proof.

I submitted an email to the white house. hopefully someone actually reads this.

Meanwhile. the price of coffee, at least what i spend, can buy 6 of those big box platform radios. But i prefer to save for 6 months and buy the bigger bigger box platform.. I'll take a Hytera please.

I do know and have experience with lowband VHF with FM emissions skipping from California in an easterly direction, just to name a few states, Wyoming, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and North Carolina.

See my video on the RT-900 in the Equipment Review section on the Forum. At 2M and 70cm I'm able to hit a Repeater on the White Tank Mts. at over 20 Miles away with a 3" antenna from a Suburban Area with trees, houses, etc. I'm sure this radio will work well enough for folks to dip their toe into other Bands to see if they want to invest more in a "Higher End" radio but for me on my tight budget this one will be just fine.

The relevant sections are: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.971 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-D/section-95.973 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-D/section-95.975 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_bandwidth_rule

I'm waiting for something to compile so I tried it. 9V batteries are spicier.

Thanks so much for the replies. Please feel free to point me to any stickies or threads that might teach me more about how this network might degrade my GMRS experience on the higher power channels when transmitting simplex. I am worried now that my investment was bad. Now back to your regularly scheduled FCC Rule discussion...

They don’t. If you have the frequency and input tone (leaving the output tone unprogrammed) you can activate the repeater. Of course you shouldn’t without permission but technically you can. However, there are additional access tones and codes that can be programmed for some repeaters but they’re seldom if ever used in GMRS.

Thanks for explaining AM to a forum full of radio people. Data showing the actual bandwidth of a CB radio in FM vs. AM, please.

Update: I went to open area yesterday and took Steve's advice. All antennas have a 3+ SWR using the trucked mounted NMO. I connected the magnet base with the unity gain antenna that came with the radio and the SWR was 1.1 and the Ghost had 1.124 SWR. The only thing it could be now is the through hole NMO/cable. I'm going to put a new PL-259 on and if that doesn't work then I'll have to drop the headliner again and install a new mount/cable.

This was a couple years before there was an NTIA, so unsure. But what's done is done!

That was probably Jack. He has that effect on people. LoL I was with him in the beginning of the project. It was his idea. Mike is the one with the experience. So Mike is driving the proposal. Jack is a nice kid and has good intentions, but he is very abrasive (can't accept being wrong) so it makes it hard to get along with him. Sadly, while I like him, he is the #1 reason I dropped out of the project. Agreed. There is no one solution. Personally, I like the idea because it has potential to do some good for Joe Q. Homeowner who doesn't need an experimental or business class radio license. However, Amateur Radio 80m through 70cm, combined with Satellite and Cellular is the closest thing we can get to having a complete tool kit. I'm pretty sure that is not correct. Everything I can find says that Amateur Radio is the primary assigned service, and the military and other federal agencies are authorized to utilize the 50-54 MHz band in the United States as a secondary or non-interference basis to amateur operations. If there is something different, I would love to see if you can share it with us... I can't find anything. https://www.ntia.gov/files/ntia/Spectrum_Use_Summary_Master-06212010.pdf#:~:text=The military agencies operate radio communication systems,in this band on a non-interference basis. https://www.ntia.gov/sites/default/files/2023-11/4_2021_edition_rev_2023.pdf

You are correct, the signal doesn't travel any farther. It is the inverse, an FM receiver will reject a stronger signal until it is strong enough to "lock on".

When I was at Ft Devens learning the whys and wherefores of ECM/ECCM, we had a window of time to Jam the FM Audio on a local TV station. Using a Dummy Load running 1500w, we would still jam TV sets within a 1 mile radius of the Transmitter (AN/TLQ-17). Lotsa of fun changing the dialog on the Soaps. That and SERE Training were the most fun I had before my PCS.

Authorized, yes. But FM requires all of that bandwidth and AM doesn't.

I don't see why not. I talk on 10m FM simplex all over the states when the band is open, especially to the West Coast from MN, and have had a few contacts into Europe as well.

The Talk Around Feature is selected from the menu and you have to follow the procedure to enable the feature. I don't recall if you select and enable the feature if it is global to the radio on the RP channels or just channel specific on the selected channel.

The point is to expand beyond short-range local comms, particularly for emergencies. 300w repeater systems would definitely help a lot in areas like what we are in here in the DC Metro area, the northern Mid-Atlantic and northeastern US. There was one 10m repeater that was at 100w that covered a huge amount of the area, but it's been off the air for years and GMRS isn't getting the job done for many families and EMCOMM volunteers. I support it and comfortably put it in the category of you don't have to use it if you don't want to. It certainly doesn't hurt anyone or the service to provide extra frequencies. Shoot... the biggest complaint I see/hear is that there are so few channels and the space is crowded in metro areas. Why not support it if it will reallocate unused frequencies and give users more options? (That was rhetorical, of course)

It makes a nicer stain.

Not needed for a personal radio service intended for local ccommunications

well, assuming your magnet mount used as a reference is using a different cable. I would start looking at the cable or connectors. And try moving your ghost antenna to the mag mount and check that. If you see the same poor SWR than the antenna is suspect.. Process of elimination is the game. Try reading in one set of circumstsnces than anoter as i suggested. It's not always easy to chase poor swr problems..

Do owners of these radios call themselves H8ers?

And any traffic on those eight repeater pairs also causes congestion on the eight 462 MHz main channels which are the also the fifty-watt simplex channels because they share the same frequencies.

@Linuxnut79 - the FCC actually was looking for suggestions for how to simplify regulations. You might want to look into that. Also, having linked repeaters causes congestion locally whilst relying on the internet for greater distances. What happens when the ISPs go down? If you’re truly interested in SHTF long distance radio communications that is designed to survive loss of local services (and overuse of the internet backbone) you should investigate HF.

Bert, You forget TWO Important Facts that didn't occur to you before you wrote that. 1. GMRS is intended to be a Short range communication service, Not meant for nationwide comms. 2. you Only have 8 Repeater pairs in which to operate repeaters on, which is approx. 180 mhz. bandwidth. WHY would someone 200 miles away have to be Forced to listen to traffic by a couple of operators on a linked system, not even in their area ? After you get 4 or 5 Linked networks across the U.S. saturating the 8 Repeater pairs we're allowed to use for the entire country, the signal to noise ratio goes UP, sometimes even creating interference for low power or Local repeaters. My suggestion to you, is IF you want to enjoy Long Distance Comms state to state, maybe take the test for your Technician Amateur Radio License, then you could operate on Many of the LEGAL Linked repeater systems we're Allowed to operate ? Both the Two meter and 70 Centimeter { Vhf and Uhf } bands have More than enough Bandwidth to support many Linked systems. Gmrs does Not have the Bandwidth needed to allow linking. I hope this sheds some light for you.

^^ THIS ^^ in a nutshell... Linking would completely occupy any given frequency pair, making it unavailable to most other users in the coverage area. It would not take many linked repeater owners to monopolize all of the repeater channels in any area. Even ham radio, with it's many more available repeater frequencies, seldom links distant repeaters for longer than it takes to run a net. Some clubs run repeaters in two locations on different frequencies and permanently link their own, but it is still very local and only two transmitters. W3VPR does this with their 2m system, almost doubling their footprint. Others link between 2m and 70cm, but again, it's local and limited. I am seeing this desire to link with many new GMRS users here and I think that some of the appeal is to increase capability on an intentionally limited service due to the lax licensing requirements. "Limited service" and "lax requirements" go hand in hand. Anyone wishing to have longer range capability than GMRS currently offers should investigate Amateur Radio, which allows greater power, much more flexibility in frequencies and equipment. The FCC dropped the Morse Code requirement and the entry-level 'Technician' license exam is relatively easy.

Shot yourself in the foot right there.... if its a short distance use class, linking repeaters makes it no longer short distance....

With the ranch we are on it all day long Checking on live stock & other ranch business. The firearms range is rented out 7 days a week from 0900-2200 for day and night shooting and the range officers must call every time the range is hot and cold. I have been very happy with it since I put the better cable on it.

BaofengTech/BTech has really out done themselves with the BF-F8HP Pro IMHO. This radio has everything I've been looking for in an HT, it's easy to program with the BTech software and even lets you add a Custom Start-Up pic. I did a vid of a quick walk around showing some of the features and showing the really awesome programming software too. Anyway, enjoy the vid and thanks for watching. TN.Frank Out!

GMRS has only 22 official channels to use. Out of those 8 are reserved for repeater operation, with the matching 8 input only frequencies. If there is no traffic on the output frequencies they can be used for simplex. Normally the purpose built GMRS radios have the channel frequencies builtin by the firmware. At best you can select which access tone to use. Various radios allow duplicates of the repeater channels with different tones to accommodate traveling around different areas. Also the repeater channels you find the builtin ones are set for a +5MHz split. However the current FCC rules allow any of the 8 input frequencies to be paired with any of the 8 output frequencies, which results in a non standard split. Most repeaters stick to the standard +5MHz.

I have to look away so I'm not buying a new radio every 6 months.

So you'd need two different radios, or one radio with two different antennas to make use of these and the existing GMRS channels? Does not seem very user-friendly... If they are unused, throw 'em to the H.A.M.s.. they'll use it.. they'll use anything.