mire

I have to admit I am surprised that the FCC does not seem to clearly mandate as part of its certifications that the radio firmware not allow Tx operation on frequencies and power outside the radio’s certification. When I read the rules I personally conclude that if the radio is not limited to specific frequencies and power by the nature of its hardware design then it becomes the responsibility of the radio’s firmware to keep the radio in compliance. I was recently surprised to discover that an otherwise legal FCC 95e “certified” radio was still fully capable of Tx operation on all amateur UHF frequencies (plus more) without hacking it, but also that it could transmit higher power on those GMRS frequencies where such power is not permitted. While the average person may not stumble on this it does shed light on the shortcuts the manufacturers are taking perhaps due to unclear language in FCC regs. While I am also a license amateur and permitted to use non-certified radios on amateur frequencies this may not be an issue, but the fact that this is possible on a GMRS radio that is not supposed to have said capability clearly shows a gap in the certification process. It would seem that based on the assertions in the FCC document that Rugged Radios has been exploiting this exact type of shortcoming.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

151.4 for is a PL/CTCSS tone.

Not a stupid question. I believe you can also receive UHF signals in the 400 - 480 MHz range on that radio also. GMRS-V1 is a BaoFeng UV-82 with the transmission locked down to the FRS/GMRS frequencies.
 
It may be possible that you’re programming based on obsolete and outdated information. A number of public services may still retain the same frequency/frequencies, but many have transitioned to digital instead of analog, such as NXDN or Project 25.
 
Try those frequencies with no PL tone. Realistically, a frequency allocation for public services should be a regional one which they have exclusivity on. They should be the only traffic you hear, and you’ll hear them if you just use CSQ (no PL tone) on receive (if they’re running analog).

Lo and behold, there is something we can agree on. I’m actually with you 100% on this one.
 
I can’t speak for the people who do that, but I know others who’ve encountered it before. One guy I was chatting with on Zello said he sat about equidistant between two repeaters which used the same frequency and PL tone and that sometimes the owner of the one repeater would chew him out and say it’s a private repeater. I’d explain the situation and tell the owner ultimately, look, it’s another repeater I’m trying to hit, and you’re using travel tone…. maybe you should consider changing your PL tone or setting up your repeater to accept a registered list of PTT-ID numbers if you don’t want others on it, Beyond that, as far as I’m concerned, it’s their problem, not mine.

Lo and behold, there is something we can agree on. I’m actually with you 100% on this one.
 
I can’t speak for the people who do that, but I know others who’ve encountered it before. One guy I was chatting with on Zello said he sat about equidistant between two repeaters which used the same frequency and PL tone and that sometimes the owner of the one repeater would chew him out and say it’s a private repeater. I’d explain the situation and tell the owner ultimately, look, it’s another repeater I’m trying to hit, and you’re using travel tone…. maybe you should consider changing your PL tone or setting up your repeater to accept a registered list of PTT-ID numbers if you don’t want others on it, Beyond that, as far as I’m concerned, it’s their problem, not mine.

Maybe I am the only one, but I am confused about the purpose of this ongoing rant. Complaints on an online forum are not going to change anything. If you want change, file a Petition for Rulemaking with the FCC. Then get people to support your petition.
 
But, to the points you raise. First, about GMRS radios themselves: Some of your facts are wrong or off target, there is no need for a -5 MHz (not KHz) offset on a GMRS radio. There are only 8 repeater input frequencies defined and those are all 5MHz higher than the 8 defined repeater input frequencies. And, the number of internal memory locations (aka "channels) that a given user needs is very difficult to determine. Probably more than 22, but 180? Zello? Zello works just fine without a GMRS radio at all. But, Zello is an Internet (IP) based app, which means anything that connects to Zello needs an Internet connection. But, you also suggest GMRS should work when away from any cellular infrastructure. So, how is your Zello equipped GMRS radio supposed to connect to Zello when you are in the middle of nowhere? And you complaint about morse code, I really don't know what that is about? We live in a free market economic system. Manufacturers are free to offer products they feel will meet customer and investor needs. You have a choice. And, if you don't like the certified GMRS products you can choose from, there are plenty of other options, from super-cheap CCRs to super-high end Part-90 commercial equipment.
 
Technical questions aside, your major complaint seems to be about licensing fees. Here again I think you are off base. Many services, especially commercial, marine, aviation, LMR, broadcast, common carrier, cellular, etc. have licensing fees and they are often quite expensive. At $7 a year, GMRS is cheap by comparison. Yes, it is more than Amateur. But, Amateur radio is also considered a public service, with a long history and International agreements. And, what difference does it make who you pay a licensing fee to the FCC, the ARRL, a local radio club or whatever? But, even here you are not current. There is now a proposal in the FCC to lower GMRS licensing fees to $50 and add a fee for Amateur radio. The reason? It appears federal law requires fees be set to recover costs. The GMRS fee was bringing in too much money, ham radio was bringing in nothing.
 
You also object to being taxed on your GMRS radio, but have no issue with the FCC requiring a cell phone company to offer a GMRS repeater service on every tower for free. When you consider the equipment and installation costs, plus administration and maintenance costs, are you willing to pay for that every month when Verizon and AT&T raise your bill to cover their costs? There is no free lunch.
 
Ok, you obviously feel strongly about something, otherwise you wouldn't have started this topic and posted 7 follow-up comments. But, it is really hard to understand just what it is you are complaining about and what you think should be done about it. Can you succinctly state the top 5 high level problems you see with GMRS today, the reasons you think those are problems, and 5 proposed solutions.

Kenwood TK-8360-HU-K in one vehicle, TK-8180H in the other. TK-880 as a backup, TK-890 I might use as a base station in the future.

A former roommate of mine, when I lived in North Carolina, she had a sister who lived elsewhere in the state. She (the sister) bought a pack of Motorola MR-355R blister pack radios and let her kids play on them. Like so many others who bought these 22 channel ‘hybrid’ radios, she either never read or completely ignored the bit on the packaging about a license being required to operate on Channels 15 - 22, nor did she read the owner’s manual or about the repeater capabilities of those radios. Her kids ended up getting on a repeater, and she walked in as they were getting chewed out about being on a repeater, and then caught it herself when she took the radio and demanded to know what the meaning of all of it was. We ended up losing exclusivity on 15 - 22 because of radio manufacturers, hordes of squatters lurking on 15 - 22, and apathy and poor foresight on the part of the FCC.
 
People still don’t realize or else ignore that GMRS requires a license. So they’ll either think it’s okay to get on a repeater or completely ignore the law (and remain willfully ignorant of the responsibilities of the repeater owner insofar as what is transmitted over it). Some do it intentionally, thinking that if they persist enough, we’ll end up with UHF CB “just like Australia”… except CB culture in AUS and the US are two different worlds, and good luck finding willing repeater owners if trailer trash culture that has become prevalent in US CB migrated to UHF.
Front Range GMRS had that problem with squatters, especially with the flood of cheap BaoFeng radios into the market. So now instead of single tone CTCSS from the standardized list, they use split and non-standard DCS tones and are ready to implement PTT-ID if it comes to that. It wasn’t done for the sake of being snobbish or wanting to be insular - it was done because squatters made it necessary.

Not necessarily. The only repeater capable blister pack radios I’m aware of are the Motorola MR-355R (of which I own several), MR-356R, MS-350R, and MS-355R, as well as the Liberty 500. Radios such as the MR-350R, MR-360R, etc. are not repeater capable in spite of the R at the end of their nomenclature.
Personally, they’re mostly useless to me. ~1.3W PEP, narrow band, can’t do non-standard DCS octals or split tones (both of which are used on Front Range GMRS repeaters). Now I said mostly useless, not wholly. When in scan mode, if a signal is picked up, it’ll immediately identify which CTCSS or DCS tone is in use (if it’s one which is on the standardized list).
If it’s a small and pretty standardized list of frequencies they’d be using, maybe a 8 or 16 channel radio such as a TK-360, HT750… maybe even a BF-888S… might be a better way to go if split tones and/or non-standard octals are something you’d encounter.

Why is simple. Because buyers want it. If someone wants to put up a repeater and use travel tone for all to use, that’s their prerogative. Likewise, if they want their repeater to be private, more the same.
 
It’s certainly less exclusive than various non-compatible digital protocols like DMR and D-Star and P25.
 
If it confuses someone, if only there was some kind of resource you could access on a computer to make those inquiries. If only.
 
How much you think I knew about any of this stuff beforehand? The cool thing about ham and GMRS alike is that a lot of the people involved… well, they’re radio enthusiasts. Good people to touch base with. Oh, they’re kinda particular about BaoFengs? Hey, here’s a guy offering me one hell of a good deal on a TK-380 (or maybe three).
 
Nah, if anything ruins GMRS, it’s the bandits who cause repeater owners to not want to partake in the ORI, and people who don’t actually get to know their fellow GMRS users. I’m a loner by nature - I don’t particularly like people. Yet I’m having lunch today with someone from Front Range GMRS because we both like radio and we found out we get along.
 
You wanna ruin GMRS, treat it like CB, don’t have those interactions beyond RF, don’t participate in group events. Otherwise, you come to FRGMRS, and your blister pack or Midland can’t do our split tones, I’ve got three TK-380s I got at a really good deal. Hoss, I got you for a loaner radio or to sell you one at the same deal I got them for. Or you got the B-Tech GMRS-V1 and don’t know how to program it or don’t have a cable… got you covered (and the guy I’m having lunch with loaned me his cable before I got one).
 
If you’ve got that going on, CTCSS, DCS, split tones aren’t a big deal.
 
That’s the difference between ‘Babbabooey Bob’ on 11m just passing through and enthusiast/hobbyists - there’s a sense of community there. Be a part of it.
 
And this isn’t to say it’s completely dead on CB… I was a truck driver, I’ve had those instances where I’d happen across someone on the CB, we’d grab a cup of coffee then shoot the breeze on the CB while we drove. It’s just unfortunate that CB culture is a bit of a rarity and trailer trash culture has stepped up to fill the void.

Hey Howie, welcome.
 
Unfortunately, we don't publish specific repeater information in the public forums, to prevent unlicensed users from abusing the service.  I can tell you that between the "Maps" feature and the directory, it looks like there are potentially several that serve your area.
 
If you haven't created an account on www.mygmrs.com, you will need to in order to access the directory.  It is a separate login from the forums.  Once,you are logged in, look at the "Maps" and search the directory, include the whole state and sort by city.  You should be able to see the same repeaters that I do.

they have to be on the same freq and have the same "color code" or what ever EFJ calls it.
I don't think time slot should matter in direct mode.
I am not familiar w/EFJ radios , you might be comparing apples to oranges.
if all else fails, go Ano w/PL and you will be good to go.

This is a pretty common practice.... flaggers,, framers, etc. using FRS and GMRS blister pack radios. There's a lot of construction going on where the old Denver University hospital used to be between 8th and 9th going north/south and Colorado and Bellaire going east/west, plus several shops being renovated along 8th, and all those crews are using them. A few are using MURS and some sort of crew somewhere a bit further out has been running 151.505, so VHF isn't dead.

Longer is not better in this case. GMRS is UHF. A quarter wavelength is about 6 inches.
The NA-701c is a dual band antenna designed for commercial bands, and GMRS. It will work, but you really do not need a dual-band antenna.
The NA-771 is a dual ham band antenna, Being longer, It will do better on VHF 2-meter ham band, but not as good on GMRS, which is out of its operating range.
 
If you want greater range, use an external antenna on your roof, or on the top of your vehicle.  For portable operation, you aren't going to get much more range with any rubber-duck antenna - the factory one will do just fine.

Well, welcome. Technically, there isn’t much difference between amateur 70 m and GMRS, especially when it comes to repeaters. On the other hand, socially and culturally HAM and GMRS are as different as the equator and the poles (though that difference seems to be lesseningj.
 
This is a good group here, usually quite helpful and without a lot of “why do you want to do that responses to questions.
 
Enjoy.