NCRick

Greetings!  New to the forum.  I've had my GMRS license for about 9 months and I'm also an amateur radio operator.
 
I recently purchased a Wouxun KG-805G HT, which is Part 95 type accepted for GMRS. It comes pre-programmed with the GMRS channels, including the repeater channels. The repeater channels are identified by number and repeater designation ("RPT20", for example). This makes things a bit unwieldy, because you have to remember the channel number and its relationship to the repeater frequencies you wish to use and then you have to manually go in and set the CTCSS or DCS tones every time you use that channel for a different repeater.

Mostly out of curiosity, I checked CHIRP to see if I could identify other unprogrammed channels in the radio. My objective was to program specific repeaters and their tones and names in those unprogrammed channels, if they existed. I found that CHIRP does not identify the KG-805G as a radio which it can program; however, I also found that if you use the program for the Wouxun KG-816, it does, in fact, allow the uploading and downloading of data from and to the radio. Doing so revealed that the KG-805G has quite a few unprogrammed channels. I put in my favorite GMRS repeaters into the CHIRP programming matrix and then successfully uploaded them to the KG-805G. I also stopped scanning on the pre-programmed channels in the radio and allowed scanning on the channels I had programmed, so now I can scan my favorite repeaters.

This may already be known to other KG-805G users, but I thought I'd put it on here in case someone didn't know.

Incidentally, I really like the radio.
 

I'm newly licensed to GMRS. I'm reading as much as possible on radios. Eventually, I had questions. So, I reached out to Midland about the split tones along with narrow band issues.
Here's their reply;
Using PC software and the DBR1 programming cable, the MXT400 can be programmed for split tones and the channel bandwidth can be changed. Neither option is available by front panel selection on the MXT400. By default the MXT400 simplex channels are narrow band and the repeater channels are wideband.
 
MXT400 software:
https://we.tl/t-O77dWlEtqQ
 
DBR1 programming cable:
https://midlandusa.com/product/dbr1-dual-band-radio-programming-cable/
 
Thought I'd pass it along.

NanoVNA is nothing less than miraculous piece of equipment, but it has drawbacks. The biggest: it is extremely unfriendly for newbies. The second: it can't measure power. And the third: screen sucks, or you must use PC, that is also may not be convenient. True, you can't find better tool for $50. But you must know how to use it.

You're welcome, NCRick.
 
Which one of the radios you asking?
 
The HT1250 software is been EOL for a while now, I am sure it can be found on eBay for very cheap. The CPS you probably want for the HT1250/CDM radios is called "Professional Radio CPS" and the version you want is probably R06.12.02, which is what some of the people I know use while still allowing for 25/20 wideband operation. These are really great radios, most people don't think much of those, but they are absolutely bargains... and the receivers are really really good. They make those in a variety of frequencies, from 29 MHz all the way to 800 MHz I think.
 
The XPR6550 is a FM/DMR radio, and the sotware used is called MotoTRBO CPS16 which is EOL, and can be found on eBay for very cheap, although you can also get a Motorola subscription which will get you 3 years of firmware upgrades for all the newest MotoTRBO radios, etc... probably not what you need for just GMRS... I personally find CPS16 a far better product than the newest CPS 2.0 contraption.... which IMO, is a huge step back, almost to the point of being as clumsy as the clunky-a$$ ancient Professioan Radios CPS from two decades ago... so...  The cables for XPR6550 portables runs from 30-80 bucks, depending on if you want a genuine cable or the BlueMaxers49 eBay one, which works too... I have both... so if you just need to get by, the 39 dollar one will work.
 
The EVX-539 CPS the software was free from VSOL (Vertex Standard Online) It can still be found if you look around, and worst case you just buy it for a few bucks. There are two versions of this radio, which use different CPS, so, for the older segment LCD version you'll need CE142 and for the newer, Dot Matrix display you'll need CE151. The cable is the same for both, however, you'll probably need to get a genuine FIF-12, b/c I've tried a couple of the cheaper ones and none worked... so, the FIF-12 will set you back ~100 dollars, but its guaranteed to work. The EVX-539 have a fairly good receivers, but IMO, after trying the Motorola Professional Series, including the HT1250/CDM750 combo, I think the HT1250 is a better radio in terms of overall FM performance, easier to tune and I think better audio. I also found that the CDMxxxx mobile radios to be absolutely spectacular in terms of receiver performance, too, on par with the mighty XPR5550e I've ISO-teed... so... if you don't need digital, my vote goes to the CDM750/1250/1550 mobiles and for the HT750/1250/1550 portables (walkies) (The nomenclature is 750 = no screen, 1250 = screen with limited keypad, 1550 = screen with full numeric keypad) 
 
EDIT:
 
I think there is an option to make an HT1550 FPP, (front panel programmable) but I would ask around for more info. The 1250 not sure if there is an FPP since it has a minimal set of keys), the 750 is just a rotary switch with a couple of buttons, so that one you'll need the CPS. 
 
I've seen on Youtube people doing FPP with the 6550, so I know there is a way to make it FPP, but I am not sure how to do it.
 
The EVX-539 I don't think there is an FPP option, or at least not that I am aware of, so you'll need the CPS for this radio.
 
Good luck!
 
G.

Just an update.
 
With the most gracious help of Radioguy7268 I have been able to complete some practical side-by side comparisons between 7 models of radios, include 5 Motorolas, a Wouxun KG-805G, and a Midland GXT1000.
 
I am preparing my summary and will follow-up here with a post when it is complete.
 
I am not going to bore you with numbers, but instead bore you with a narrative, my findings, and perhaps a map to give you context.
 
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

@gman1971 thanks for your post.  I have always been a fan of Motorola.  With the radio mentioned, am I able to program this via the keypad or through inexpensive easy to get software?  I found your information helpful and concise.

If you just want to give the radio hobby a try then just get a Baofeng BF-888S: its a 9 dollar radio. It programs with CHIRP, and the cable is like 9 dollars: in short, it should be the simplest and cheapest thing to get going. If you don't like the hobby, or for whatever reason you decide this is not your thing, then you can smash the thing with a hammer, set it on fire, blow it up with tannerite... and not much will be lost. All other CCR radios mentioned here, the Wouxun, the Retevis, et. all, all those will have similar low performance to the Baofeng BF-888S, except they cost a ton more (rip off??) and are equally bad in terms of receiver performance. Yes Yes... I know... here are the buzzwords to be aware of: Superhet, Hyperhet, Megahet, Turbohet... etc all those buzzwords are designed to sell overpriced cheap radios without the most important component: a proper TUNED FRONT END (to filter all the unwanted signals out there) which is what most LMR Part 90 radios will have... so the radios will work inside Best Buy and not blank out due to all the electronic noise present.
 
But, OTOH, if you do like the radio hobby, the next radio should be a quality LMR radio, not a cheap china radio (CCR). Personally, I would chose a Motorola, the HT1250 is a fairly inexpensive radio, or the Motorola XPR6550, or the Vertex Standard EVX-539 etc, but also Kenwood, or Icom LMR radios are pretty decent too. Remember that GMRS is NOT Ham radio, so, you don't need a VFO, nor the ability to transmit in 100 bands, or in fifteen different modulations. All you need for GMRS is a FM UHF radio that transmits and receives from 462.5 to 467.8 MHz, can store at least 22 channels, do repeater offsets and have the ability to set PL tones. That's about it. Most commercial grade radios will suit your needs.
 
G.

The rigid 20’ rule was removed in the 2017 (current) version of the Part 95 rules, either accidentally or on purpose. Paragraph 95.1741 now covers antenna height. That paragraph redirects to 95.317 where it is described that antenna structures of 200’ or more may require FAA registration and where restrictions on antenna heights near airports are described.
 
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

The 6.1 meter or 20 foot rule means the structure is not subject to registration. Towers and poles greater than 20 feet in height are usually listed on the license as the transmitter location. This primarily applies to services where individual frequencies are required to be coordinated which isn't needed for personal or amateur communications. There are other rules that apply such as being near an airport or lighting for antennas more than 20 feet in height.

if you just want to key up on a frequency and get a reading, get one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Mcbazel-Surecom-Digital-125-525Mhz-Antenna/dp/B01D86IKIQ/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=swr+meter&qid=1611736284&sr=8-9
 
or something like it anyway. the vna is "harder" to use, but you're smart enough to want to do it right? The nanoVNA you calibrate (simple procedure) for a frequency range, then hook up an antenna with the SWR trace enabled and you can read it through the entire range instead of just what you're keying up from the transmitter.
 
nanovna = a little more work on the front end, much easier if you're checking multiple bands.,

Welcome to the group. 

Welcome to the group WRKP558 from fellow LEO.  Like you, We have 6 adult kids 30-50 yo and G kids from 2-27 yo.  I been teaching the teen G Kids GMRS and they are eating it up but some are shy to talk sometimes.  You would think after playing with the FRS for years camping they would have gotten over mike fear... Must be the call sign mind sets that raise the bar knowing anyone can report them.  We are working on our repeater adventure now.  As for antenna, It has been suggest to look at DB404-B about $300 verse the $40 DYI.  This forum is always good for suggestions which I consider as helpful.
Jack 

Hello Mike.
 
The primary reason I have my GMRS license is as means for family communications. Mobile to mobile, mobile to home, around home and more. It also serves as source of emergency communications for and with the family and neighborhood. Basically it serves as a utility service for me. Yes, I do use it to communicate with other GMRS’r too, mostly while mobile, occasionally from home.
 
I have my ham license for a variety of reasons. As a hobby and means to experiment and learn. As a means to connect with others in a fun way, both local and world wide. As a means to help with civic events and perhaps be prepared to help the community during a time of natural disaster or other local or national emergency. It also serves as a means to connect with others with like interests.
 
No one in the family has interest in amateur radio. The have not the interest to study for it, invest in it, nor interest in ‘talking radio’ with others.
 
Both work for me exactly the way I want them too. GMRS is utility. Ham is hobby and personal interest.
 
Hope that helps.
 
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

When I opened the the software and downloaded my MTX400 current programming as it came from the factory, channels 1-7 and 15-22 were spaced at 12.5K, the repeater channels 23-30 were already spaced at 25K .
 
The only thing I did with the software was add split tones to the repeater channels that needed split tones. Midland either always made the repeater channels 25K or changed it at some point of production. My radio was new and sealed in packaging so it had to be programmed that way from the factory

Are you sure of this? Perhaps I misread your post.  I would think that if the manufacturer (or whoever is getting the radio certified) included the capability to configure elements of the radios via software, and documented those capabilities in the certification application, that doing so would be Ok.  Note in particular the Kenwood GMRS radios that have keypad programming locked out but can be programmed with the appropriate software.
 
Of course, programming would not include changes that would not be allowed in GMRS, like transmission on non-GMRS frequencies, power and bandwidth settings > the FCC specified limits for a channel, etc.  However, organizing memory locations and banks, setting PL, etc. and audio signaling, adding text labels, roger-beeps (though those should be categorically outlawed!), etc. would all seem to be things that can be changed by the end user without voiding the certification.

It is interesting that note the LT-590 and TH-9000(d) UHF versions are not available on Amazon and it is unknown if they will become available. OTOH, There is a  Retevis RT-9000D That appears to be almost identical to the TH-9000d and is in-stock.  I mention the availability of the two Bond Telecom brands (Luiton and TYT) because it may hint at an upcoming change in the MXT400. In fact, the Retevis version may represent close-out stock that they purchased from Bond Telecom.  Also, FWIW, the Retivis-9000D programming software appears to be the same as the LT-590.
 
Also, just wondering if anyone here has tried to program their MXT400? I am sure there are a lot of interested people waiting to hear.

I can confirm that the Retevis RA25 and the Anytone At-779UV are the same radio. I also confirm that you can not change the pl tones witch isn't any good for duplex.
retevis 1.zip

My owned list:
 
Wouxun 805G (2)
Kenwood TK-3170
Retivis 76P (2)
 
IMO of course:
 
I prefer the Wouxun because I can adjust from the front panel.  Software is ok but Kenwood is superior.
 
Kenwood is great but needs to be laptop/software programmed unless modified for FPP and I'm not sure that's possible on their HT.  Not field adjustable for CTCSS, etc.  Software is excellent.
 
Retivis 76 is ok but I seem to prefer single-band GMRS for simplicity's sake.  I just got these so only one day wheelin' with them.
 
Just finished programming Baofang 5Rs for a friend and hated Chirp.  Mostly because of my ineptitude maybe but other software was more straight-forward for me.
5R is not FCC cert. and is discontinued, but I think they have new models that are compliant.

Welcome to the group...
 
I have the same handheld as Michael and as my first step into GMRS, I too got information overload.  One thing I wanted is flexible use in car/Jeep/hiking/RV and home.  Also wanted radio certified by FCC to be legal.  I have kids and GMRS fits my needs to teach them.
 
Check out other posts made for whatever radio you are looking at.  You see radio is a personal thing and a lot of "IMHO".  
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2373-type-accepted-transceiver/
 
Jack

I've dipped my toe in the GMRS waters with Midland and Wouxan.  I'd like to buy a used Kenwood and try my hand at programming.  I'm looking at an 8180 for a base unit at the house.  What do I need to know about programming?  I've got the whole family using channel 16 with CTCSS 2.  Is this something a newbie can do with relative ease?
 
I really appreciate all of the advice I've gotten here so far.  Thanks in advance.  

I wanted share my experience as I am new to GMRS and recently setup a TK-8180 in my truck. Not only was this was my first mobile setup, but also my first time programming. To be honest I was concerned that I was getting in over my head. I purchased the software and programming cable and couldn't get my computer to read the radio. After doing a little investigation I realized that the programming cable I bought was junk. I replaced it with a quality cable and everything worked like a charm. The KPG-89D software is pretty simple to use. After playing around with it for about 15 minutes I started programming the radio. 20 minutes after I started programming I had all of my repeaters loaded in zone 1 and all of the simplex channels loaded in zone 2. It really couldn't have been easier. I recommend buying your cable on Ebay from bluemax49ers. You'll pay a little more for his stuff, but it works great! If you follow this youtube link and jump to the 1 min mark you can see just how easy this software is to use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-S_DHkcg6o

The MXT-400, if you buy the DBR1 cable and ask Midland support for the programming software download, has a few options that can be changed.
 
1) On power up, mine displays my call sign
2) I have the four local repeaters programmed into CH 8-11, they were empty due to unused FRS not permitted by FCC.
3) You can program display names into your channels.
4) Bandwidths that can be programmed into the channels are: 12.5kHz (narrow), 20kHz (medium) and 25kHz (wide). The factory had the repeater channels set for 25kHz on mine.
5) I can also program the repeater frequencies for which no repeaters are in use in my area for "talk-around" operation as a preset.
 
The MXT400 isn't very versatile in programming from the front panel.
 
I think I am going to try one of those Wouxon KG-1000G's.
 
I'd like to try one of those old rigs, Kenwood or Motorola, if I can get the software legally and it is 95A certified. I have a deep respect for Motorola products, but I don't want any risks in getting on the FCC's bad side. I get a ticket EVERY time I do more than 5mph over the speed limit... It's like they're just waiting for me to make a misstep!

If you're calling another station directly, always start with their call sign first, then yours - ex " WYYY345, WZZZ123."  A good way to remember this is to insert "this is" between the call sign and you'll never forget the order - ex  "WYYY345 this is WZZZ123."  If you're not calling another station directly, the usual procedure is to announce your call sign and "listening"  or "monitoring" - ex "WZZZ123 monitoring."  If you're just monitoring simplex you might add "WZZZ123 monitoring GMRS channel 20."  If you're monitoring a repeater, you might say "WZZZ123 monitoring [repeater station name or frequency here]."  If you're looking for a CB-style radio check, people generally ask for a "signal report."  For example you may identify on a repeater like this: "This is WZZZ123 monitoring CityRepeater1, are any stations available for a signal report?"  A listening station may respond indicating the strength and quality of your signal and/or initiate a conversation.  If you receive no response, you could wait a few minutes, identify with your call sign again and request a signal report.  If you are not receiving any replies after one or two attempts, you should clear the frequency with something like "No contact, this is WZZZ123 clear, monitoring."  Also - you should avoid just keying up the repeater and not saying anything (a.k.a. "kerchunking" the repeater) .  If you just want to test if you're in range or have the radio properly set up, still identify - ex: "WZZZ123 testing."  Here is a link with some good info about amateur repeater etiquette, but a lot of it still applies to GMRS as well.  Radio involves a lot of listening, so keep yours on often and see what you can hear - hope this helps!

I know this is an old post but much thanks to you WRAA720. Very helpful.

AURSINC is the name brand to look for.  The real v3.4 H model should be around $55.  AURSINC makes them upto $140 or so