kerstuff

Because people respond to him instead of putting him on their "Ignore User" list like I did the first time he tried to sucker me in to an argument. Believe me, the forums are much more enjoyable that way. 

What? Creating a context so that you can create a platform to contradict someone?  OK, since you said that, I will accept that as being the case.   Not my specific intent here, but since you choose to point one that was your motivation, I can go with it.
 
Now of course, context, presentation, and lastly grammar is EVERYTHING.  You made that as a statement, rather than a question that would imply that I was the one taking refuge.  But your presentation is all wrong.  By taking what I said, out of context, and then making a specific statement about what I said, you in effect agreed with it.  And in doing so implied YOU were the one taking refuge.  Which of course is actually the case.   And with reviewing other posts you have created over time, taking those into account along with this, it creates an even better context that it's indeed true that you like creating platforms out of thin air to contradict other's for no other reason than the act of doing it. 
But that's ok.  We all are motivated by different things.  And have different personality traits that don't always mess real well with others, but we all seem to be able to more or less get along.
 
And how did a discussion about digital modes on ham radio devolve into this nonsense anyway?
I had to go back and look and here's what I am seeing.  LScott commented about hams complaining about expensive microphones and then dropping money HF gear.  This was a reply to a comment about HHCH configurations which are a thing with commercial P25 gear.  So still technically on topic.  You disagreed and said cheap wasn't 'appropriate'.  Couple comments of real world situations about hams, still within the overall subject matter.  And again, you needed to contradict things and point out analogies being stretched. 
Couple more comments,,, then I posted and you again needed to contradict me, and LScott.  And here we totally hijacked once again.  I rebut, you again take what I said totally out of context and attempt to further your straw man position.  And here we are. 
So I guess the question becomes, just what is it that motivates you to come in and hijack threads on here?  ANd what exactly in this ENTIRE thread that you posted has ANYTHING to do with P25 on ham radio to begin with.  I see you contradicting others.  I see you create a context out of thin air to further your contradictions, but I don't see ONE DAMN THING that has anything to do with digital VOICE on ham radio. 
 

Hello, new to GMRS, and a ham/SW lurker for years, from central Virginia. 

Howdy all. New to GMRS, just got that and my ham technician license a little while back (planning to bump to the general next week and AE sometime down the line). Looking forward to learning about things and getting involved in the community.
Located in AZ, southeast of Phoenix.

SUPER long-time CBer. VERY long -time ham and yes, now repeater owning GMRSer.
Besides just trying to be as cool as Randy, I wanted a way to be able to talk to my family without the internet or being at the mercy of some technocrat app like Facebook.  After all, The Zuck shut even my messenger down that I use with my children that drive to school nearly 30 miles from home.  Plus we live rural and cell coverage is just getting up to speed out here anyway.  Only one of my sons got his hammy-ham license and my wife and daughter have no interest at all.  They (The Facebook Police) would even look at or use AI to look at our private texts and shut My messenger down during elections, inauguration, J6, again as we (The US) began to support the proxy war in Ukraine and any time I mentioned the global warming coincidence AKA 'Died Suddenly'.  Now, most the time they would reinstate me after a week or so but this time they permanently suspended my account.  Long story short I needed or wanted a backup way I could communicate with non ham licensed family members that can't easily be shut down during your average TEOTWAWKI--SHTF event so now we use the encrypted Signal App and our family's GMRS repeater as a back up.

Well of course when I am doing serious testing or just want to let down what's left of my hair, it's GMRS and also of course most my friends are experienced licensed ham radio operators and yes, we do indeed talk 'Radio' and about everything including ham radio and ham frequencies.  IMO the best range tests should include and ongoing conversation to identify holes or lack of coverage.  And yes, I am sure some of the jargon bleeds into our GMRS conversations but those are the guys that will recognize problems with the signal or give me the best reports and ideas on how to make improvements.  The only real difference though that I think might stick out to GMRSers is our group tends to me a bit more anal about IDing to stay in compliance than most the other GMRS only users I know, not that we care though, it's just what we are used to.

Like other hams, I don't feel I must give anyone an explanation per se but if this helps pure GMRS guys understand when and why I personally use GMRS then I will share.  

Now to find that Affiliate Link for the Mossberg Parts mat... 

I call BULLSHIT - just another Sad-HAM disguised as a GMRS user.  YOUR radio YOUR choice - if the sad-HAM control freaks dont like it, they can change the channel..  
HOWEVER - as you mentioned, if the repeater owner requests that you not use a roger-beep on his repeater, then following the wishes of the equipment owner who's equipment you are using would be the polite thing to do, IMO..

When it comes to communities... GMRS by far has the best. I've only seen pleasant and helpful people in the GMRS community. It's more easy going than Ham, MURS only has a few channels and basically no one in it, and FRS is basically incorporated into GMRS. The HAM community seems focused on keeping certain people out and creating contacts with people. Also the stereotype is there. Ham is very clipboard and khaki, where GMRS is jeans and TShirts. 
CB is a whole different world where basically anything goes. And as good and fun as it sounds, not as many people use it as they used to, and the equipment can be clunky. Murs dosent really have a community outside of farm use and hiking. 
Basically in my opinion, GMRS is a great middle ground between all the services, and has a community of people who care.
If anyone disagrees I would love to know why, just because I like listening to all forms of radio. 

A lot of Hams, many won’t publicly admit it, have their VHF/UHF Ham rigs with the MARS/CAP mod for the same reason.
Oh, on VHF some have the marine channels programmed in too.
 
 

I’ve never found them useful. With a radio hanging on the belt the wrist strap has a nasty habit of catching on crap as you walk close by things then rips the radio off your belt.

No wrist straps for me. It's either on my belt or a side pocket on my backpack with a speaker microphone.

Whaaaat? Midland has never rebranded another manufacturer's gear to sell under it's own name....right?
?

Those Cable TV enclosures are available to everyone!  The real test will be what's on the inside.

Self identify that's funny. I have a cheap UV5R that sits in my car loaded up with GMRS, HAM, And MURS frequencies in case I cannot reach anyone in an emergency. As the fcc says, using a part unacceptable radio is okay in an emergency (wink)

I was thinking like an unlocked Baofeng GT-3WP. No, no of course I wasn’t. 

Early January 2022 here in Alaska we had a horrible winter storm that knocked out power to thousands as well as cell service to some, I lost heat, power, and cell service in my area for 3 days and I was completely unprepared. I have four children my youngest was 10 months old at the time. After that happened I promised myself I will never let that happen again. I then stared going down the "prepper" road and doing research on the subject. This is when I first learned about GMRS. 
When I Youtubed GMRS the first video to pop up was NOTARUBICON and his videos on GMRS. I took it all in and began taking the steps to get my license. I then watched a video with him and Josh at HAM RADIO CRASH COURSE talking about GMRS and Amateur radio. Then I found Jason at HAMRADIO 2.0 along with this website and ARRL and Radio Reference etc. 
The biggest thing that drew me into Randy, Josh, and Jason was that I could identify with all three in them as far as age, family/young children, similar interest, and their ability to explain everything rather simply and with some comedic relief. I have now since received my tech license (KL5LD) and I give full credit to Josh and Jason because their YouTube channels and the information they provided helped me tremendously in passing my test as well as taking a class with Bob Phinney over at New England Sci-Tech, Thanks again Bob (K5TEC)!
I now have both GMRS and amateur radios that I use everyday, and I enjoy using both. With family it is mostly GMRS, while my kids are studying for their tech license and I for my general and with ham it is mostly for the entertainment of listening to all the old timers gripe at each other over ALLSTAR LINK on the the east coast repeater, it is quite hilarious to me personally (I'm just kidding guys), but there are also some really solid guys out here in Alaska that I have met over ham and they have been extremely kind and helpful in so many ways I couldn't even begin to list them. Heck, just a couple weeks ago my family and I got invited to a local clubs pot luck and gift exchange for Christmas when I was trying to find info during another horrible winter storm we just had before Christmas(It was pretty bad)! Yet, when I have talked to people over GMRS it is pretty straight forward, kinda like having a conversation with somebody in person. I'm going to be honest and say that I have been meeting more and more people in my area that have GMRS radios and they just use them. No license, no call signs, no codes or other things of that sort. It is just people out and about enjoying the great outdoors and using their radios as a means to communicate because there are many areas within our state where there is very shotty cell reception if at all and using these radios are literally life savers for people. 
This past September I went Moose hunting with my son and we ran across a bunch of guys using GMRS radios and when talking with them I would bring up the whole license issue and they all just laughed at me as if that was actually a thing. I guess up here in Alaska a lot of people just have a different mentality about how they utilize this tool. Everybody gets along great with no issues that I have ever heard of and it seems to be a growing "hobby" for us up here with new repeaters popping up, which is great!
Sorry for the long winded comment, but with all that being said I guess it is different in each region and how people are using GMRS and ham. Down in the states you guys seem to be using it for, well, the reasons you have stated, but up here in Alaska, in what I have seen and experienced, we are not using it as simply a "hobby" (this is not to say you guys are "just" using it for the same reason) to meet new friends, I feel it is much more than that, it is literally a life line. It is a way for us to stay connected to each other during our rough winters when the power goes out and its -20 outside, it is a way to communicate while out in the bush chasing down a 1,200 lbs moose to fill our freezers for the year, it is a way to tell the guy further down the river to get ready, the salmon are coming, it is a way to tell our family and friends to watch for that bear out in the tree line with her cubs while out picking blueberries, from what I have seen up here in the Great North it is much much more. And who am I to tell anybody how to use their radios? I'm just another voice over the waves. To each their own. Be safe and respectful, have fun, and watch your six.     

There is an easy way to fix this: Turn the knob to a different channel.

Just like everything else they do. Have to keep the starving lawyers employed.

Because they were written by bureaucrat lawyers, not 'normal' people.  LOL

Amen! We had a case of P&B control relays which were designated to be used in automating a hydroelectric plant which we had to replace because mice urinated on them. Plus, a lot of times when an electronic device is submerged the water has contaminants in it that become deposits as the water evaporates.  All that must be cleaned off in order to assess damage and possibly restore functionality.

Ham Radio operator uses his satellite mapping skills to save a missing hiker

Some of what you mention as far as amateur licenses was already tried and it failed epically, leading to the licensing scheme we have now.
 
Also, I may be so bold as to say that Ham radio operators use GMRS for the same reason anyone without an amateur license would use GMRS. There is no mysterious or hidden agenda. We want to talk to people we know, while using a radio, or have some form of communications when traditional communications is not an option. 
 
For what its worth, the core of the definition of the purpose for GMRS is "a mobile two-way voice communication service... for facilitating activities of individual licensees and their family members". Nothing says it must be used to talk to anyone about anything in particular, for some specific purpose.
 
I think while the dialog is healthy and I like the conversation, I wouldn't support running anyone off because their usage of the service doesn't fit some preconceived notion of what I think they should use the service for.  If anything, I would encourage more people to take advantage of the fact that services are available. Everyone should be familiar with GMRS, FRS, MURS, CB and Amateur Radio. There is no such thing as 'not enough room' to accommodate everyone.
 
Again, just a thought. 

Please see the above post we just shared regarding this topic.

Hey!  I reassemble that remark!  LOL

I highly doubt the FCC will open up more GMRS frequencies for repeaters. Today its all about money to the FCC. They make millions on frequencies. But with all the griping about hams maybe we can petition the UHF Ham band to get moved to GMRS. It sounds to me many don't use it anyway.

Truth mixed with sarcasm... I read that as "get off my lawn". LoL