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Ham Radio 2.0 Coverage of Low-band Channels for GMRS


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Posted
2 hours ago, WRTC928 said:

Repeaters are cool, but you don't need a repeater to get more farz from lowband than you currently can with GMRS UHF. For some settings like ranching/farming operations, you might be able to replace a repeater with a single base unit. The antennas might be too long to be practical for handhelds, but they'll be shorter than CB antennas, so mounting them on vehicles and equipment should be simple. It's possible the radios would sell well even if repeaters were slow to come online. 

 

We can definitely talk farther on low-band due to being able to take advantage of ground wave, sky wave and ducting, but repeaters could be very helpful because those propagation methods are all inconsistent. I tried to use SSB voice on 6m for more than 20 years with terrible luck.  When the conditions are right (which isn't often), we are able to talk 20-30 miles... but most of the time, it's RF LOS.  The really long distance stuff seems to be happening on FT8 and other weak-signal protocols most of the time, but still dependent on the solar cycle and ducting.  

 

To get over the whole handheld issue, I personally would have a crossband repeater in my vehicle, use UHF handheld to my VHF vehicle for full power and range.  I do that with Ham radio all the time.

 

I think the biggest challenge to bringing repeaters online will be duplexers.  I don't know of any that currently exist.  So, until commercial units become available, we are going to have to make them ourselves.  Thankfully, the longer the wavelength, the less sensitive the size/length of components would be.  Novice builders will have better luck as they start making their own.

Posted

Yes the 6m band can be fickle at times and it's not called the "Magic Band" for nothing.

All of my experiences with the VHF Low band outside of 6m has been while in the military. I've used man portable and vehicle mounted radios and I was never impressed with the range. This is especially true with something like the PRC-77 that only puts out 4 watts. Most of the time we had to use some type of relay system. We didn't have repeaters so we would have two radios setup at high elevation on two different frequencies to pass traffic.

I agree that a 50 watt mobile setup with cross band repeat is a viable option. I use cross band repeat quite often even at home. While I can get into the local 2m repeater with an HT when outside, using cross band repeat is a whole lot better.

Posted
3 hours ago, marcspaz said:

 

We can definitely talk farther on low-band due to being able to take advantage of ground wave, sky wave and ducting, but repeaters could be very helpful because those propagation methods are all inconsistent. I tried to use SSB voice on 6m for more than 20 years with terrible luck.  When the conditions are right (which isn't often), we are able to talk 20-30 miles... but most of the time, it's RF LOS.  The really long distance stuff seems to be happening on FT8 and other weak-signal protocols most of the time, but still dependent on the solar cycle and ducting.  

I was responding to the points being made about repeaters being expensive and bulky. In some circumstances, you might get better distance even without the repeater. 

 

3 hours ago, marcspaz said:

To get over the whole handheld issue, I personally would have a crossband repeater in my vehicle, use UHF handheld to my VHF vehicle for full power and range.  I do that with Ham radio all the time.

I've done that a couple of times on ham just to get the feel of it, but so far, I haven't had circumstances where I felt the need. I hadn't thought of that, but if there were lowband GMRS channels, I'm sure someone would start making radios capable of crossband repeat.

Posted
2 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

I agree that a 50 watt mobile setup with cross band repeat is a viable option. I use cross band repeat quite often even at home. While I can get into the local 2m repeater with an HT when outside, using cross band repeat is a whole lot better.

I've been trying for months to get an antenna mast up outdoors, but it's one thing after another. Most recently I had shoulder surgery and won't be able to lift anything heavy for several months. Right now, I'm using a mag mount on a pizza plate, so crossbanding won't give me much more than I get from my HT. If I had a good antenna on a 40' mast, I might find a use for crossbanding. 

Posted
16 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

I've been trying for months to get an antenna mast up outdoors, but it's one thing after another. Most recently I had shoulder surgery and won't be able to lift anything heavy for several months. Right now, I'm using a mag mount on a pizza plate, so crossbanding won't give me much more than I get from my HT. If I had a good antenna on a 40' mast, I might find a use for crossbanding. 

I hope everything went well and you heal quickly. Don't rush physical therapy or try to use your shoulder too soon.

I'm running a Comet GP-9 dual band antenna and its base is at 22 feet above the ground mounted on some 1 5/8" fence posts that are anchored to the house. Our club's repeaters are 22.5 miles away with the antennas up on a tall radio station tower. I'm running a Comet CA-712EFC with the base at 20 feet above ground with my Wouxun KG-1000G.

With this setup I can easily get into the 2m repeater with my Icom IC-2730 set on low power (5 watts). And the other people can't tell if I'm running 5 watts or 50 watts when using the 2730 and the GP-9. Using a hand held around the yard is a different story since I am low to the ground and using the short HT antenna.

I have to use a minimum of 20 watts to get a good readable signal into the 70cm and GMRS repeaters. I can sometimes get into the GMRS repeater with a HT out in the yard if I am facing the direction of the tower but it's not a strong signal. I can't get into the 70cm repeater at all with a HT. The 2m and 70cm repeaters use the same antennas which are at 900 feet and the GMRS antennas are at 400-450 feet.

Cross band repeat works well around the yard for me. Another good use is if you are traveling with a group and there is only on mobile radio but several hand held radios.

Posted

The petition to add VHF Low Band to the General Mobile Radio Service sounds like a good idea. However, there will still be the same issues that currently see on GMRS.

 

I'm talking about the unlicensed individuals, the ones who refuse to follow the FCC rules and regulations, especially, when it comes to licensing. Those same individuals think just because they can purchase radio without a license, they'll use it as they see fit. That happen all the time on the Amateur Radio Bands. I certainly don't want to see what happen under Regan, where the FCC dropped the licensing on 11m Citizen Band Radio Service

 

Posted
34 minutes ago, WQAI363 said:

The petition to add VHF Low Band to the General Mobile Radio Service sounds like a good idea. However, there will still be the same issues that currently see on GMRS.

 

I'm talking about the unlicensed individuals, the ones who refuse to follow the FCC rules and regulations, especially, when it comes to licensing. Those same individuals think just because they can purchase radio without a license, they'll use it as they see fit. That happen all the time on the Amateur Radio Bands. I certainly don't want to see what happen under Regan, where the FCC dropped the licensing on 11m Citizen Band Radio Service

 

Hi Adam,

It’s nice to see you back on the forum. I think it’s worse on GMRS than it is for ham radio. I agree that it would continue if new GMRS frequencies were added, but I don’t think it’s because of the new frequencies; it’s just the way people are. 
Without implementing draconian enforcement I don’t foresee any change. 
Honestly, what would it hurt if GMRS became unlicensed?

Best wishes!

Posted

the only low band repeaters i knew of 'back in they day' were high on top of Mountain peaks and many counties had 3 or 4 in their networks that reached every inch of their boundaries.  Than came UHF and many many more mountaintops and even parking garages.    

Posted
27 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Honestly, what would it hurt if GMRS became unlicensed?

I'm not sure if you're being serious there.  No government issued callsign needed anymore and it would be just like CB,  The low power and short antennas keep FRS radio users in check.  (We don't know how many people are using GMRS radios as FRS radios.)  At least if it goes unlicensed I can convert all mine to ham if I want (GMRS antennas may not be too good for TX on 440 but will RX).

Posted
10 hours ago, marcspaz said:

I think the biggest challenge to bringing repeaters online will be duplexers.  I don't know of any that currently exist.  So, until commercial units become available, we are going to have to make them ourselves.  Thankfully, the longer the wavelength, the less sensitive the size/length of components would be.  Novice builders will have better luck as they start making their own.

I believe Telewave still has Lowband VHF duplexers with a minimum spacing of 600 KHz.

Posted
2 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

I'm not sure if you're being serious there.  No government issued callsign needed anymore and it would be just like CB,  The low power and short antennas keep FRS radio users in check.  (We don't know how many people are using GMRS radios as FRS radios.)  At least if it goes unlicensed I can convert all mine to ham if I want (GMRS antennas may not be too good for TX on 440 but will RX).

I’m being serious. I believe more people than not operate without a GMRS license, even though it’s against the rules. I don’t see an end to civilization. I doubt that requiring a license makes any real difference. Of the few of us who buy licenses only a tiny fraction ever read the rules so really, what is the point of requiring licenses?

Posted
Just now, SteveShannon said:

I doubt that requiring a license makes any real difference. Of the few of us who buy licenses only a tiny fraction ever read the rules so really, what is the point of requiring licenses?

I used to have the same misguided feelings.. But I learned from my best friend Josh that licensing is the only way the FCCs has to know how many people are using the service.. So before they start giving away frequencies they will have an idea of how many people they are going to piss-off.

Posted
7 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

I used to have the same misguided feelings.. But I learned from my best friend Josh that licensing is the only way the FCCs has to know how many people are using the service.. So before they start giving away frequencies they will have an idea of how many people they are going to piss-off.

So license the repeaters only and have them report on usage.  
 

I’m kidding, mostly.

But given the existence of FRS and the number of unlicensed people using full power ham radios without licenses on GMRS, the number of people licensed for GMRS isn’t close to an accurate tally of how many people use the service anyway.  

Posted
On 8/22/2025 at 9:48 AM, WRUE951 said:

I wrote the FCC in favor of this petition and also suggested in my letter if the FCC favored this proposal they should also use this opportunity to clean up the exisitng GMRS rules and clarify existting rules.  I.e. Limit GMRS repeater ownership to 3 or less, do not permit cross state GMRS Repeater ownership, clarify rules related to 'charging for use of a repeater". Rewrite current rules on Linking so that it is clear the practice is simply illegal and take the confusion of other networks out of the rules.  ..   This wold be a great opportunity for the FCC to clean up all the gray areas with the rules..  One of my buddies in Riverside (FCC) office says this proposal actulliy has some traction..   The more we write in favor of this the better chance it has.  

Is there an actual NPRM on this?  I have been looking for a copy of the petition, so if you know where one is available I would appreciate a link.

Posted
7 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

I doubt that requiring a license makes any real difference. Of the few of us who buy licenses only a tiny fraction ever read the rules so really, what is the point of requiring licenses?

Are there any unlicensed services that allow use of repeaters?  I don't know of any.  And what would happen to the repeaters?  Unlicensed users are less likely to donate.  And repeater owners would have a lot more junk to deal with.  On the rules issue, yes I'm dealing with that now.  I don't have a solution (except forget GMRS and go fight with hams over how we should be using that service meaningfully).

Posted
8 hours ago, N4ZHG said:

Is there an actual NPRM on this?  I have been looking for a copy of the petition, so if you know where one is available I would appreciate a link.

Navigate to the ECFS filing page on the FCC's website and file a comment.  

Posted
12 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

I used to have the same misguided feelings.. But I learned from my best friend Josh that licensing is the only way the FCCs has to know how many people are using the service.. So before they start giving away frequencies they will have an idea of how many people they are going to piss-off.

 

Im kind of hurt. In one of your videos you said that a forum member mentioned it to you, and I was all excited because I thought you remembered our conversation, but nope! You love Josh more than me. I don't think I can go on. 

 

You're not getting your hoodie back...

Posted
14 hours ago, nokones said:

I believe Telewave still has Lowband VHF duplexers with a minimum spacing of 600 KHz.

 

That cool! I'll have to take a look later and see what they have.

Posted
21 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

I hope everything went well and you heal quickly. Don't rush physical therapy or try to use your shoulder too soon.

Thanks! I'm only 5 weeks postop and it seems to be coming along well.

21 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

I have to use a minimum of 20 watts to get a good readable signal into the 70cm and GMRS repeaters. I can sometimes get into the GMRS repeater with a HT out in the yard if I am facing the direction of the tower but it's not a strong signal. I can't get into the 70cm repeater at all with a HT. The 2m and 70cm repeaters use the same antennas which are at 900 feet and the GMRS antennas are at 400-450 feet.

Cross band repeat works well around the yard for me. Another good use is if you are traveling with a group and there is only on mobile radio but several hand held radios.

My house is in a favorable location for radio. I can reliably hit my club's repeater with 2 watts from my yard and 5 watts from inside the house, so I don't need crossband repeat at home, and if I go south, I can't reliably reach the radio at my house far enough away to make any difference. When I have an antenna on a mast, I expect that with crossband repeat, I could extend my reach to the repeater quite a few more miles south. 

Posted
2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

and I was all excited because I thought you remembered our conversation, but nope! You love Josh more than me. I don't think I can go on. 

I just spelled "Mark" wrong!

(honestly, i dont remember either conversation)

 

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