You just got your GMRS license, now you want your own repeater?

[DONE]

You’re free to do as you like, same as everyone else here. I just wanted to make a few comments and ask some questions.

 

If you continue with the project perhaps you can give us an update on how it’s working out. 

 

I’ve learn over the course of many years there is aways some more to learn, and it doesn’t matter how much “paper” you have hanging on the wall.

Na. screw it.  Between you and the guy that said I need to get a part 90 frequency pair and run P25 with ASE256 and RAC to keep things private,,, I am in agreement.  Why should I care about other license holders. 

And if I invest in a number of FB6 pairs, I can put up a commercial DMR system instead and sell time on it.   Who has time for hobby and family radio users anyway.  Thank you for helping me to see the error in my thought process.

 

I will say that we need to quit hijacking this threat. 

 So when a Mod see's all this,,,, please clear it out until it's back on topic.

[smalpierre]

I've read at least 2 or 3 people in here saying that a cheap cobbled together repeater is useless, just use simplex (what can you do with this that you can't do with FRS), and how you're not going to gain any range, it's way too expensive, and way too technical for most licensees, what are you going to get out of it ... I guess some people just started with a mountain of equipment, truckload of money, and all the know-how!

You know what I get out of a cheesy sub thousand dollar repeater setup that I can't get from FRS? Almost 10 miles in any direction reliably to HT's. Oh, and unlike these fancy high dollar commercial setups I keep hearing about "needing" to make a useful repeater? It's not illegal. I also have fun building, and improving, and geeking out on techie things. Are you guys really getting 10+ miles simplex on HT's (on bubble pack FRS radios no less!)? I didn't think so because that would be absolute poppycock! I'm so glad I never listened to guys that kept saying "you can't".

I'm not saying everybody should go set up a repeater, but the idea that they're useless unless you spend tens of thousands on a commercial type install (which again - is most likely not legal to begin with) is patently absurd. Not everybody has the same goals, or is in the same situation.

[gortex2]

I think the idea of this topic was to explain that a cheap repeater is not going to do what you want. To do it right costs money. Its really no different than the ham world. How many guys have a 440 repeater in their garage at home vs on a mountaintop ? Not many. Those that do did it to cover a small area. I look at GMRS the same. You can take 2 mobiles and strap them together with a cheap duplexer and cover 5-10 miles in your village/town with a decent antenna. I have one at home on my barn just for my 10 acres and local around the farm. Its not meant to get to town or cover a large area. But 2 Baofeng portables back to back with mag mount antenna's is not going to do what you want. The issue is daily someone joins the forum and says they need a repeater but they are using junk equipment to begin with and dont want to spend the money to do it right.

 

As for your other comment about commercial repeaters on towers being illegal please share where in the rules it says i can't have my repeater on a combiner with a RX antenna on the top of the tower in a multi-coupler ? As long as I meet the power requirements and TX antenna height I am good to go. A well designed commercial setup will outperform most expectations.

[axorlov]

Not everybody has the same goals, or is in the same situation.

Totally true. Usages cases are different for different people. Cobbled-together repeater with cheap diplexer works wonders in the mountains or in the woods where there is no RF interference. 10 miles - sure possible with tall antenna. Even more if you place your repeater in a good place, up the tall tree or high on the hill. Same system will be deaf and mute in urban or suburban setting.

[smalpierre]

Totally true. Usages cases are different for different people. Cobbled-together repeater with cheap diplexer works wonders in the mountains or in the woods where there is no RF interference. 10 miles - sure possible with tall antenna. Even more if you place your repeater in a good place, up the tall tree or high on the hill. Same system will be deaf and mute in urban or suburban setting.

 

The reference to the 10 mile thing - I was talking about simplex - more specifically mobile and HT's, particularly mobile/ht to mobile/ht communication.  A base station is no different than a repeater if you're talking base to mobile, it's all about antenna, and height. You can talk base to mobile same ranges. To say "just use simplex, you don't gain anything with a repeater" ignores literally everything except a narrow set of use-cases.

 

My situation there is no WAY I could "just use simplex" - I'm in the suburbs - wayyy far out near agricultural. It's VERY flat around here. I want to be able to communicate with family / friends within a 10+ mile radius from my house, and everyone within that radius to be able to talk to each other. If I have 2 of us - one on the far side, and the other on the opposite far side - tha'ts a 20 mile haul. I don't care if you have an awesome NMO mount antenna on each car pushing 50W - you are NOT going to be talking to each other. It's just too far over the horizon even if you bulldozed everything in between and made it marble smooth.

 

I could talk BASE to mobile with my antenna where it is (about 30 feet up), but simplex? I'd have to be sitting at the station. What happens when I want to talk to them when I'm out in the garden? With a repeater, I can do it. What happens if I have 2 people 5 miles separated on HT's? They're not going to be talking simplex, but they can on the repeater.

 

Also - while ham radio is great for experimenting with things, and trying this that and the other thing - it is NOT friendly to experimenting with repeater setups. You're not going to get frequency coordination worked out so easily for one. GMRS is a great place to get started, figure out what works and doesn't, and how to get what you want accomplished. Then if you REALLY want to, you can go spend the tens of thousands to do it "the right way" (according to the gatekeepers) and do the whole professional setup thing. So it really chaps my hide when some smug "Radio Karen" has the audacity to tell me that what I'm doing is stupid, isn't going to gain me anything, and that it's "out of my league".

 

My setup so far is in the 400 dollar range counting every last connector. It's a crumby Surecom 628 (I think - it's supposed to operate PTT instead of relying on VOX), a 70 dollar duplexer, 70 dollar LMR400 clone (75 feet), 2 baofeng HT's - one a GMRS-V1 so it's LEGAL unlike their part 90 repeaters they program for GMRS, a 100 dollar 50w linear amp (really 30 to 40 in reality probably), and a quarter wave ground plane antenna I made and tuned to 465mhz to be in the middle of TX / RX. Theoretically it'll get me out roughly 10 miles. I'll be SUPER happy with 6-7 miles to HT's.

 

And for a bonus? I get to play with antennas - maybe I really need to tune it for the transmit frequency and RX doesn't matter? Maybe I start experimenting with RX radios to get killer sensetivity and excellent filtering? Maybe I decide to experiment with duplexer tuning? Or maybe I decide to swap out the controller for an Id-O-Matic (which I probably should have started with)? Maybe I experiment with antenna placement? Maybe I decide to try to make it a mobile setup with solar and battery bank? These other mobile setups I've seen are more or less total junk - especially that Retevis they sell on this site (it's got TX and RX frequencies backwards, so it's TOTALLY against GMRS rules, even more so than those part 90's and won't work with any real part 95 radios) ...  I'll get to learn a LOT more about repeaters than I'd EVER learn in amateur radio.

 

But what do I know? I'm just a plebe that doesn't have 20 grand to spend on a "real" (and illegal!) gmrs repeater!

[smalpierre]

I think the idea of this topic was to explain that a cheap repeater is not going to do what you want. To do it right costs money. Its really no different than the ham world. How many guys have a 440 repeater in their garage at home vs on a mountaintop ? Not many. Those that do did it to cover a small area. I look at GMRS the same. You can take 2 mobiles and strap them together with a cheap duplexer and cover 5-10 miles in your village/town with a decent antenna. I have one at home on my barn just for my 10 acres and local around the farm. Its not meant to get to town or cover a large area. But 2 Baofeng portables back to back with mag mount antenna's is not going to do what you want. The issue is daily someone joins the forum and says they need a repeater but they are using junk equipment to begin with and dont want to spend the money to do it right.

 

As for your other comment about commercial repeaters on towers being illegal please share where in the rules it says i can't have my repeater on a combiner with a RX antenna on the top of the tower in a multi-coupler ? As long as I meet the power requirements and TX antenna height I am good to go. A well designed commercial setup will outperform most expectations.

 

Yes - that IS the idea of this topic, and I 100% disagree with the entire premise. MY REPEATER does what I want, and you can't do what I want simplex. I'm in it about 400 bucks - the cost of that Retevis they sell on this site (which ... I'm dubious if it's really part 95, most of them have Tx / Rx freqs reversed but those also aren't advertised as part 95). You missed the part where I said it isn't for everybody - namely people that want a "boxed solution" that they hope to get 20 mile radius coverage.

 

I didn't say ANYTHING about the rules saying your repeater can't be in a commercial installation. The part where these commercial repeater setups are illegal, is that the transmitters are part 90, not part 95. I didn't say ANYTHING about how it's hooked up to the antenna system, or exceeding power levels, etc.

 

Not that I really CARE (so long as TX doesn't exceed 50w and doesn't cause interference), because the part 90 equipment is WAY better than any part 95 equipment I've ever seen - better filtering, and the transmitters are WAYYYYY better - and there is a train of thought that there's a "gray area" regarding part 90 equipment - but if you really want to get down to brass tacks - that "gray area" could easily change with an opinion issued by the FCC addressing it one way or the other.

 

I also didn't say that strapping 2 HT's together with a cable, turning on VOX, and stuffing it into an ammo can was a viable solution. As a matter of fact, the prolification of those kind of systems that made me want to set up a repeater - except not doing dumb things like "simplex repeater" or transmit on 5 watt, or antennas near ground level without having adequate separation or a duplexer, or ... yeah - you might as well simplex if you're using those for the most part. The only thing those get you is that you can maybe talk a little further - effectively doubling the effective range of HT's in the BEST use case scenario (repeater is exactly halfway between both people)...

[axorlov]

The repeater snobs here will quickly point out the weak link in your setup: $70 duplexer + GMRS-V1 front-end. You may end up with massive desense of the receiver. Another potential problem (not obvious!) is LMR-400 - search this forum for details about using it for the repeater duty. 

Did you have a chance to test your system already? If it works and you really get 7 miles from base(repeater) antenna to HTs that's great! In my case 7-8 miles is a limit from by base (40W TK800H + antenna at 25') to Kenwood HT. No repeater, just simplex in 1-2 story suburban setting.

[shaine]

In an earlier comment (way back at the start of this thread), I mentioned the possibility of the local repeater owner not wanting traffic on his equipment. It happened. A local operator was using it to coordinate daily commutes with his family. The owner asked the club to limit use of the repeater to emergency traffic only. So, we have curtailed use of it. 

 

Fortunately, another operator and I chipped in to buy a used Motorola GR1225, which has a built in duplexer. It's very plug and play once you have it programmed. We set it up at the fire station on a 100 ft tower using donated coax and antenna. Our repeater coverage isn't the same as the other repeater. However, it covers all of our city and allows me to reach over that hump between home and where the Mrs. works the next town over. 

 

In all, I think we spent about $1000 between the purchase and donations. The repeater reaches out about 10 miles. The only trouble I have is that my mobile is only 15 watts. I have trouble reaching back on the fringes. 

 

Long-term, we are thinking of buying a backup repeater to swap out if this one goes bad. 

[gortex2]

There is a nice GR1225 ready to go for $300 on this forum from a member...Id spend that before buy 2 baofengs, a vox repeater controller and a amplifier...

 

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2372-motorola-gr1225-for-sale/

[WRAK968]

In an earlier comment (way back at the start of this thread), I mentioned the possibility of the local repeater owner not wanting traffic on his equipment. It happened. A local operator was using it to coordinate daily commutes with his family. The owner asked the club to limit use of the repeater to emergency traffic only. So, we have curtailed use of it. 

 

Fortunately, another operator and I chipped in to buy a used Motorola GR1225, which has a built in duplexer. It's very plug and play once you have it programmed. We set it up at the fire station on a 100 ft tower using donated coax and antenna. Our repeater coverage isn't the same as the other repeater. However, it covers all of our city and allows me to reach over that hump between home and where the Mrs. works the next town over. 

 

In all, I think we spent about $1000 between the purchase and donations. The repeater reaches out about 10 miles. The only trouble I have is that my mobile is only 15 watts. I have trouble reaching back on the fringes. 

 

Long-term, we are thinking of buying a backup repeater to swap out if this one goes bad. 

Look into a Band pass/band reject duplexer. I found that despite terrain, switching from the flatpacks to BP/BR duplexers usually increased range quite a ways.

 

 

[smalpierre]

The repeater snobs here will quickly point out the weak link in your setup: $70 duplexer + GMRS-V1 front-end. You may end up with massive desense of the receiver. Another potential problem (not obvious!) is LMR-400 - search this forum for details about using it for the repeater duty. 

Did you have a chance to test your system already? If it works and you really get 7 miles from base(repeater) antenna to HTs that's great! In my case 7-8 miles is a limit from by base (40W TK800H + antenna at 25') to Kenwood HT. No repeater, just simplex in 1-2 story suburban setting.

Yeah, I'm sure the repeater snobs will chime in - and I'm trying to keep this thread on the topic of "repeaters are useless unless they're ours, and they're superduper pro-grade" - but the quick answer is no, I'm testing and installing things now. I've used similar setups and got close to 10 miles. Most everything is 1 story out here on 1 - 5 acre lots, so it's not terribly dense or tall. not a lot of gigantic trees either.

 

Certainly appreciate the weak links being pointed out - that GMRS-V1 front end is I suspect the first thing to go. I swept the duplexer with a vna, and it's not as bad as I thought it might be so I'm going to give it a whirl - but that was my second thought on weak links that I might have to replace later. Maybe the guys having problems with desense are relying on them being tuned out of the box? I'm not "that guy" - it's getting tuned as tight as I can get it with the equipment I have. If I have desense problems, I'll see if somebody at the amateur club would be willing to let me use a "real VNA" / spectrum analyzer to get it tuned. The Surecom controller I'd like to replace with an id-o-matic, but I have this one so I'm using it. I'll have to search for the threads on LMR-400. Then I'm thinking an upgrade to a more sensetive receiver with better filtering would help a lot. The one thing I don't think I'll have any issues with is my antenna - but if I do, i'll build another - or maybe just buy one?

 

One thing idk if you saw - the GMRS-V1 is getting piped to a linear amp, I'm not relying on it for power - but really, if a remote HT on a duck can talk to it, it should be able to talk back even at HT power levels. Note that's a "should", not a "will", and my rig in the truck is a 50w with a decent antenna. I considered getting one of those b-tech 50w gmrs mobiles instead, but I figured it's probably similar to what I've got except in one box anyway. That and I already had the gmrs-v1 so it saved about 100 bucks and figuring out the cable to the controller.

 

As for your base station simplex to HT's 7-8 miles out - I don't doubt that at all - that's kind of what I'm going for ... except the part about one person being tied to a base station which is 100% why simplex will not work for me - unless somebody out there has a magic bullet to get 2 HT's to talk 15 miles apart - and then I'm all ears, but at that point I'll be wanting even MORE range so ...

And this brings us back on topic. One of the reasons I got into amateur radio was so I could play with the gear. One thing I wanted to play with was repeaters, and I found that it's kind of hard to do that when you have to get frequency coordination, and you don't already have experience (the old catch-22) and are in "the club" so to speak. It seems to me that the guys involved in frequency coordination are often all too willing to just give themselves a nod to a home based repeater, and make it really hard for anybody that's not in their clique.

 

Enter the GMRS repeater. I can play with it and have the experience I want without some Radio Karen making my life difficult. Honestly - if it doesn't work AT ALL it's a win for me. I'll play with it til it does work, or I get tired of trying.

 

 

[smalpierre]

There is a nice GR1225 ready to go for $300 on this forum from a member...Id spend that before buy 2 baofengs, a vox repeater controller and a amplifier...

 

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2372-motorola-gr1225-for-sale/

 

Well ... yeah! That's much better than a cobbled together getup. The only thing about that is you have to get the programming cables / adapters / software, feed lines ... so far I'm legit in this for 300 + about 100 in junk I had laying around including the feedline - which I think I'm going to not be using anyway now that I'm looking into what I have. It's probably going to be the very first thing I replace.

 

Actually buying something like that was my FIRST choice. I looked all over ebay and whatnot, and it looked like all of them were in the 600 dollar range which is why I went with what I got.

 

My controller supposedly doesn't rely on VOX though - but I'm not really sure about that. According to the barely understandable diagrams in the "documentation" it triggers the PTT on the transmitter. Im pretty sure the id-o-matic IV triggers PTT too, so that's another thing I'll look into.

 

Anyway - that link also pokes a huge hole in the "you don't want a repeater because ... and superduper expensive" premise of the thread.

 

Maybe the thread should be "If you really want a repeater, and are willing to put the time / energy in - here's pitfalls to avoid" instead of "You're too stupid and poor to set up a repeater"?

[kay]

very new to the gmrs radio    had no responses for radio check    learned that I needed to contact a repeater in my area and request to use that station.  Have not heard yet as to if I will be able to use that repeater.   If this does not help with communication I think I will go to ham radio.  Looking at study of technician license    study of 1  had them in sections... HRE-Tech   did the 1st 4 and missed 1 on a practice test.   looked further down and the ones with diagrams will probably be the most difficuolt

 

I would like to know if it is okay to purchase a ham ....just to listen until I get my license.

[berkinet]

...I would like to know if it is okay to purchase a ham ....just to listen until I get my license.

Absolutely yes.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I got portable retevis 97 repeater purely for just in case situation. There is one repeater listed in database for my area but to get tone you gotta contact owner by email. To which he never replied.

[WRKS279]

Hi Corey, appreciate your wise advice on making smart moves.   Okay, I'm a new GMRS user (WRKS279) in Maple Grove Minnesota. I have a little Wouxun KG-805G. A nice little handheld with 5watts of power. Still, I'm not hearing much as I leave it on scanner mode. Sometimes it stops and I hear a partial conversation. But if I try to call out on that channel (usually Ch 15)...nothing. I just got a Nagoya UT-72 antenna for it, with the adapter to use with my Wouxun. I just have it sitting near the window inside my little home office. I'm still not hearing anything. Today, I was practicing calling out to see if I could connect with someone ("This is WRKS279, Whisky Romeo Kilo Sierra 279, beaming from Maple Grove Minnesota on GMRS band 15. WRKS279, CQ hello? Listening" variations repeated multiple times ). Still nothing. So, I'm wondering if there are just so few people using GMRS? Or, is my reach still so poor I cannot connect with those who do? Thoughts? Do I need like a Harvest BC200 mounted outside? Would it help to get a 50 watt mobile for my home shack?

 

I'd like to participate in the Midwest Net, but I don't know if I have equipment that would ever allow me to connect with the closest midwest repeater (169). Supposedly, the "Metro 4" repeater run out of the University of Minnesota covers out to my area in the suburbs. Would I use that to connect with the Midwest net 169? If so, how? Thanks for any help you can give!

[coryb27]

Back in the 80's I charged $8/foot for a climb plus any hardware I supplied. I carried a $2 million dollar liability policy.

 

 

I currently pay $100 an hour for my climber under 500'. I supply everything required for the install, the ground crew, hard hats for the ground crew and a set of quality HT's for tower to ground coms. Climber comes with all his own gear, cable tools for grounding and connector installs, ropes, safety equipment and the key Insurance. No commercial tower operator is going to let an uninsured person climb a tower so if somebody tells you otherwise its most likely not true. I can asure if something goes wrong you will most likely get a trespassing citation as I am sure Crown Castle or American Tower did not wave the insurance requirement. 

[coryb27]

Hi Corey, appreciate your wise advice on making smart moves.   Okay, I'm a new GMRS user (WRKS279) in Maple Grove Minnesota. I have a little Wouxun KG-805G. A nice little handheld with 5watts of power. Still, I'm not hearing much as I leave it on scanner mode. Sometimes it stops and I hear a partial conversation. But if I try to call out on that channel (usually Ch 15)...nothing. I just got a Nagoya UT-72 antenna for it, with the adapter to use with my Wouxun. I just have it sitting near the window inside my little home office. I'm still not hearing anything. Today, I was practicing calling out to see if I could connect with someone ("This is WRKS279, Whisky Romeo Kilo Sierra 279, beaming from Maple Grove Minnesota on GMRS band 15. WRKS279, CQ hello? Listening" variations repeated multiple times ). Still nothing. So, I'm wondering if there are just so few people using GMRS? Or, is my reach still so poor I cannot connect with those who do? Thoughts? Do I need like a Harvest BC200 mounted outside? Would it help to get a 50 watt mobile for my home shack?

 

I'd like to participate in the Midwest Net, but I don't know if I have equipment that would ever allow me to connect with the closest midwest repeater (169). Supposedly, the "Metro 4" repeater run out of the University of Minnesota covers out to my area in the suburbs. Would I use that to connect with the Midwest net 169? If so, how? Thanks for any help you can give!

 

Hello,

 

Well this is a lot to take in. so lets start with the hand held. At best your going to be limited to users within a mile. This also takes into account most of the bubble packs you hear have a PL or DPL programed on them so they will never hear you. I live in a condo and was lucky to get second floor with attic access. I run several commercial UHF and VHF antennas in the attic and am able to talk simplex 25 miles with other base users. As far as repeaters, I can work 11 from my house with my attic antenna and 50W radio. You can purchase a Motorola CDM1250 in the GMRS band for $100, Power supply for $50, a good mobile antenna in the GMRS band with mag mount $50 and a 16" round pizza pan $10. Try to get the antenna outside for best result. This would greatly increase the chances you will contact somebody simplex or finding a repeater you can access with humans using it. I am not going to lie this is exactly how I get into GMRS, a TYT UHF radio, laird antenna cut for 460-470 a pizza pan and recycled power supply, look at me now... 

[gf66]

It's threads like this that make the net worth while. I already know what I know, I want to know what you know. I think back on all the properties I've seen and worked on, I now see them from an experienced operators eyes. One property has an abandoned cell phone tower on it, I wonder how many people know it's value. The House and buildings are crap, I think I know why now and it goes hand in hand with the excellent advice given here, he was a ham operator...spent all his money on equipment. lol Still sits there, unsold. That will change with more people getting into alternate forms of communication.

[Olddad65]

I have a 35' TV tower I could use to mount my antenna, but I'm wondering...
Would I be better served by a taller tower? I live in relatively flat Southern IL. (And trying to find anyone locally here to lean on for "Elmer" advice is difficult.)
I like what I see in this Wouxun KG100G repeater setup and would jump in with both feet, were I not afraid I'd be pouring money into a hole.
Any advice appreciated.

[SteveC7010]

1 hour ago, Olddad65 said:

I have a 35' TV tower I could use to mount my antenna, but I'm wondering...
Would I be better served by a taller tower? I live in relatively flat Southern IL. (And trying to find anyone locally here to lean on for "Elmer" advice is difficult.)
I like what I see in this Wouxun KG100G repeater setup and would jump in with both feet, were I not afraid I'd be pouring money into a hole.
Any advice appreciated.

Depending in your local codes, 35’ may be close to the max allowed. My village is 40’.

Before spending any money on a taller tower, I’d use the 35’ one first and study the results. Get decent coax and connectors, too. 

[Olddad65]

16 minutes ago, SteveC7010 said:

Depending in your local codes, 35’ may be close to the max allowed. My village is 40’.

Before spending any money on a taller tower, I’d use the 35’ one first and study the results. Get decent coax and connectors, too. 

I'm in a rural area, Steve. Neighbor across the street has a 100' antenna with no complaints.
My main problem is, "where to go to even get educated about costs and technical expertise to put up a similar antenna?"
I'm aware of needing to use the best coax I can afford and issues like grounding, etc..
I think the closest two-way radio shop I can walk into is like 400 miles away.
Dave WRMA 874

[gortex2]

By the time you buy 2 KG1000 radios and cable you can purchase a good used repeater on line. You still need a duplexer and feedline and antenna. Those will most likely cost more than the repeater. a 35' tower will require around 50' of feedline depending on how close you can put repeater to your tower. Grounding of said tower, cable and repeater.

Just things to think about. 

 

[OffRoaderX]

I didnt bother reading this whole thread, but allow me to share my (very recent) experience..

I recently built a repeater using two KG1000G's, a cheap mobile duplexer, a Tram 1486 on the roof and LMR400 coax - all the experts assured that my 'toy' would not work at all. Despite what all the experts predicted, not only did it work, it worked better than I expected, with a range of about 40 miles in each direction.

I have now got my hands on a (very) used Vertex VXR-7000 repeater - after paying for programming and re-tuning the internal duplexer, cost was about $650 - it DOES work better - less de-sense so it is noticeably more sensitive/able to receive signals that the KG1000g setup could not, and i'm getting a bit better range.. But the other big difference is that it is 'full duty cycle' so it can be used 24/7 - Wouxun says that the KG-1000Gs can also be used 24/7, but i'm not sure I believe that claim..

Was I happy with the KG1000G setup? YES!  Am I more happy with the "real" repeater?  Yes.

Do the math and do what works for you..Ignore the 'experts' as many dont seem to understand the difference between the term "will not work at all" and 'will not work perfectly/be the best" ...

[WyoJoe]

1 hour ago, OffRoaderX said:

I have now got my hands on a (very) used Vertex VXR-7000 repeater - after paying for programming and re-tuning the internal duplexer, cost was about $650 - it DOES work better - less de-sense so it is noticeably more sensitive/able to receive signals that the KG1000g setup could not, and i'm getting a bit better range.. But the other big difference is that it is 'full duty cycle' so it can be used 24/7 - Wouxun says that the KG-1000Gs can also be used 24/7, but i'm not sure I believe that claim..

Randy, congratulations on the new "real" repeater. You can even set the VXR-7000 up in your home as your "base" unit, since it can serve double duty. Did yours come with the internal duplexer, or did you add one to it? I'm thinking about setting one up with the duplexer, but the ones I've found didn't come with a duplexer. From looking at the manual for the VXR-7000, it looks like you could add a common 50W duplexer for the same (or very similar) result.

I did find that Antenna Farm has the VXR-7000 programming cable and CE27 software available in a package for a reasonable price. If you ever want to change the programming on yours, it might be worth having.