Is There A Road Channel For GMRS?

[MichaelLAX]

If there are two topics that will generate the most heat on this Forum, they are:

1) A GMRS Travel Channel; and

2) Communications on GMRS beyond "line of sight"

And now we have them both in ONE thread! 

[H8SPVMT]

Besides 2 repeater channels all my frequencies are simplex and over three years now I have run my radio in scan when traveling around town and road trips.  Never heard another traveler on the GMRS with exceptions to maybe four truckers.

Being Jeepers and traveling in small groups we'll talk amongst ourselves over the open road and off, using 462.57500.  Seems no one local even turns their GMRS on or uses SCAN on a day to day ride around town.

Of course I have to consider that I am dealing with "the ONLY TIME" I am on the road and that may just never coincide with others travel routines  during normal daytime/night travel.

 

[Extreme]

1 hour ago, H8SPVMT said:

Besides 2 repeater channels all my frequencies are simplex and over three years now I have run my radio in scan when traveling around town and road trips.  Never heard another traveler on the GMRS with exceptions to maybe four truckers.

Being Jeepers and traveling in small groups we'll talk amongst ourselves over the open road and off, using 462.57500.  Seems no one local even turns their GMRS on or uses SCAN on a day to day ride around town.

Of course I have to consider that I am dealing with "the ONLY TIME" I am on the road and that may just never coincide with others travel routines  during normal daytime/night travel.

 

Very near to my experience on/off road with one exception:  a stuck hunter actually contacted us from about 10 miles when we were driving by his general area in route to another recovery.  He scanned us chatting on 16 with his HT, shouted us down, and got himself 'scheduled' to be recovered.  They had walked 7 miles out and had many more to go with zero cell coverage.  We got him on our way back from recovery 1. 

[WRPQ760]

I’m new here so take this with a grain of salt. If GMRS communities are anything like ham each region is going to have different standard channel usage set by that radio communities elected leaders.

[H8SPVMT]

2 hours ago, WRPQ760 said:

I’m new here so take this with a grain of salt. If GMRS communities are anything like ham each region is going to have different standard channel usage set by that radio communities elected leaders.

Awe CRAP, as a group: we couldn't select a Standard Road Channel (SRC) and now we hear we need an elected local leadership to guide us!  Is your name Putin or is the just your leadership ability guiding us individual sheep toward discord? 

[MichaelLAX]

3 hours ago, WRPQ760 said:

I’m new here so take this with a grain of salt. If GMRS communities are anything like ham each region is going to have different standard channel usage set by that radio communities elected leaders.

Welcome to myGMRS.

GMRS communities are nothing like Ham ones: they serve two distinct purposes, with some overlap.

I am on a low-salt diet! 

[WROZ250]

4 hours ago, WRPQ760 said:

I’m new here so take this with a grain of salt. If GMRS communities are anything like ham each region is going to have different standard channel usage set by that radio communities elected leaders.

I don't think even ham radio is completely dictated by "elected leaders".  Yes, there are regional band plans and 'gentlemen agreements', but short of causing interference, the only 'dictating authority' (and I use that term loosely) is the FCC.

Additionally, and as @MichaelLAX commented, "GMRS communities are nothing like Ham ones: they serve two distinct purposes, with some overlap".

Quite frankly, I doubt that the majority of GMRS users would even want to emulate Amateur radio operations. 
Some might even find the suggestion offensive.

Just sayin...
 

[WROZ250]

I'd also add that because there is not 'user authority' in GMRS (A good thing IMHO), and I've said this previously on this subject, one can designate any channel or frequency as a 'road channel'. 

However, that designation is meaningless without 'buy in', meaning that unless the majority of users 'adopt the idea' and, conform to it (as in actually using it), such a designation is again, meaningless.

Seems to me that the closest thing to 'buying into the idea' of a standardized channel/frequency use in GMRS, has been the Off Road enthusiasts who, among their users, have agreements on what channel/frequency to use.



 

[marcspaz]

6 hours ago, WRPQ760 said:

I’m new here so take this with a grain of salt. If GMRS communities are anything like ham each region is going to have different standard channel usage set by that radio communities elected leaders.

 

Welcome to GMRS and MyGMRS.Com. 

 

With only 30 channels in total... GMRS does not need that level of micro-management.  The only thing that the GMRS community has agreed upon for a very long time is that channel 20 with CTCSS tone 141.3 Hz is the National GMRS calling channel. 

It was born out of a nationwide movement coordinated by Popular Wireless, as well as the Personal Radio Association.  They came up with the idea of an Open Repeater Initiative, using the standards of channel 20 with tone 141.3 for repeaters.  Due to being so popular with travelers, the simplex and repeater configuration became the accepted National GMRS calling channel.

Where all the commotion came from with this thread is, some people are not happy unless there is chaos, so they decided to try to change what has been the standard for 22 years.  So... there you have it.

 

As far as ham radio goes... I'm not sure about where you are... but I have homes in several states on the east coast and I travel/visit a lot.  I am a member of a lot of clubs, too.  From what I can tell, from New England to Florida, the clubs really don't have anything to do with what channels are selected for casual chat or call frequencies. However, there is a little truth to local regions coordinating for some things.

For instance, my primary home is in Virginia.  We have the Southeastern Repeater Association and The Mid Atlantic Repeater Council for repeater coordination.

For simplex stuff, ARRL divisions ARES and RACES have established regional simplex channels for specific uses.  For example, neighboring counties agree to use specific frequencies or frequency pairs (as appropriate) for Operations and Logistics, Winlink and Packet, as well as specific frequency use for served agencies such as an EOC, the Red Cross or FEMA.  This makes it so in an emergency, we don't interfere with each other AND we know where to find each other in an emergency. 

 

As far as rag-chew and general mischief, the ARRL coordinated specific frequencies for things like call channels.  But in many cases, there is way more than 1 call channel.  For example, you have the following call channels in 2m / VHF

144 MHz is for CW Earth-Moon-Earth calling.

144.05 MHz is for CW weak signal calling

144.10 MHz is for weak SSB calling

144.2 MHz is the National Calling Frequency.  (usually SSB)

146.52 MHz is also a National Calling Frequency. (usually FM)

And that is just the voice and CW stuff.  There is even more stuff for digital, Satellite, etc.

[marcspaz]

 

31 minutes ago, WROZ250 said:

Seems to me that the closest thing to 'buying into the idea' of a standardized channel/frequency use in GMRS, has been the Off Road enthusiasts who, among their users, have agreements on what channel/frequency to use.

 

 

We do?  LOL  I have been wheeling for over 35 years and I can't find 10 people to agree on what type of radio to use (CB, HAM, GMRS, FRS, MURS, Free-band).  You can forget getting most people to agree on a single channel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WROZ250]

2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

@marcspazI did say the 'closest thing'.

Most of the off road people I know, and/or have I've talked to on the subject, have set channels/frequencies, at least for their groups/areas.  Off road is kinda of a geographical thing found mostly (not exclusively) west of the Mississippi.

One thing that was news to me (not being an off road participant (currently), was that many groups are not even using GMRS and have opt'd for commercial equipment and channels from outfits such as Rugged Radios.  Other have also told me that they still prefer CB (27 MHz).

However, your point is well taken as it seems then that there is, and perhaps never will be, any 'national' agreement for any sort of accepted frequency/channel usage.

IMHO, GMRS, given it's somewhat limited frequency resources, just isn't conducive for any standardization beyond the current simplex/repeater operations set by the FCC.  

Not suggesting it cannot happen, I just don't think it likely on a national scale. 

If it were to happen, my opinion is that a 25K, high power, simplex channel/frequency, carrier squelch (i.e. no tone) would offer the best option/performance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MichaelLAX]

2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

…what type of radio to use (CB, HAM, GMRS, FRS, MURS, Free-band).

What is the difference between MURS specifically and Freeband, in general?

[marcspaz]

1 minute ago, MichaelLAX said:

What is the difference between MURS specifically and Freeband, in general?

The Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS) is a free radio service that uses 5 channels in the 151 – 154 MHz spectrum range.  Like FRS, the most common use of MURS channels is for short-distance, two-way communications using small, portable handheld radios.  Also, like FRS, MURS is restricted to handheld radios. 

Side note: These channels were originally approved for industrial/business radio service, but now its open to everyone.

 

Free-banding is people buying radios that are unlocked or they pay to have them unlock and just transmit illegally wherever they feel like.  Most of the time, they are using either modified CB radios or modified 10m amateur radios and talk between CB and the bottom of 10m.  However, as of lately, thanks to the introduction of Baofeng radios they have been popping up on VHF and UHF, too.

[wrci350]

9 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Also, like FRS, MURS is restricted to handheld radios. 

Nope.  Limited to 2W, but Part 95J includes maximum height limits, which wouldn't apply to HTs only.

§ 95.2741 MURS antenna height limit.

The highest point of any MURS station antenna must not be more than 18.3 meters (60 feet) above the ground or 6.10 meters (20 feet) above the highest point of the structure on which it is mounted. MURS station antennas must also meet the requirements in § 95.317 regarding menaces to air navigation. See 47 CFR 95.317 and consult part 17 of the FCC's Rules for more information (47 CFR part 17).

Also this:

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wouxun-kg-1000m.html

[marcspaz]

@wrci350  Nice!  I had no idea there were base/mobile radios out there.  About 3 years ago, I tried to buy one and couldn't locate one.

[WROZ250]

Dunno, the KG-1000M, like the KG-1000G, is a nice radio but seriously overkill (IMHO) for MURS.  Very expensive 2W radio.

 

[wrci350]

7 minutes ago, WROZ250 said:

Dunno, the KG-1000M, like the KG-1000G, is a nice radio but seriously overkill (IMHO) for MURS.  Very expensive 2W radio.

Won't disagree one bit.  Probably the reason that is (AFAIK) the only type-accepted MURS base/mobile on the market.

I'm sure there aren't ANY people out there using Part 90 mobile radios on MURS.

[IdahoJohn]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:12 PM, marcspaz said:

@Sbsyncro @IdahoJohn  It sounds like you guys lucky with where you drive.  To talk 20 miles you need to be 275' above the other radio with no obstructions and 40 miles, you need almost 1,100' of elevation above the other radio. 

 

I travel all around the country for work and R&R. Those conditions don't exist in a vast majority of the country.  Which is why I asked the question.

A little late to respond here, But, yes I am in a Hi Desert valley and

the testing we have done is across said valley and from the valley floor.

When I scan in this area I do hear truckers running together as well as travelers

on the interstate from time to time.

also some businesses with hand held radios with low power and

very short range.  most seem to have privacy codes activated so cannot

hear you unless you have the same code entered.

Then there are the kids on FRS  LOL

 

[WROZ250]

4 hours ago, wrci350 said:

I'm sure there aren't ANY people out there using Part 90 mobile radios on MURS.

No, not anybody at all! LOL!

 

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, WROZ250 said:

No, not anybody at all! LOL!

 

*Shifty eyes*

[MichaelLAX]

5 hours ago, IdahoJohn said:

very short range.  most seem to have privacy codes activated so cannot hear you unless you have the same code entered.

Or if you set NO receive tone, you can hear them. 

[Lscott]

20 hours ago, wrci350 said:

Won't disagree one bit.  Probably the reason that is (AFAIK) the only type-accepted MURS base/mobile on the market.

I'm sure there aren't ANY people out there using Part 90 mobile radios on MURS.

There are is the possibility that some people are using Part 90 radios on MURS, legally. My understanding is if the radio was certified before the creation of the MURS service you can use the radio, BUT it has to conform to the power limits, bandwidth and frequencies set forth in Part 95J. 

I remember a long while back I had inquired about this issue on these forums.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1239-old-part-90-radios-predating-murs-service-legal-use/

I would be interest in seeing any further thoughts on the topic. This likely should be in another thread.

On the topic of a road channel for GMRS perhaps the other question should be is GMRS, using UHF band, a good choice or would something like MURS, license free on VHF, work better?

 

[IdahoJohn]

12 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Or if you set NO receive tone, you can hear them. 

Yes, The way I understand it is,  you will hear them, but they will not hear you

if they have a code set..

I do not have any codes set on my radios

[marcspaz]

3 hours ago, Lscott said:

On the topic of a road channel for GMRS perhaps the other question should be is GMRS, using UHF band, a good choice or would something like MURS, license free on VHF, work better?

 

 

Generally speaking (terrestrially), watt for watt, the lower the frequency the further the signal travels before it spreads into oblivion. 

With that understanding, if GMRS and MURS had the same power restrictions, MURS would provide better distance.  However, with GMRS, there is more than a 20 dB power advantage.  Therefore (at least hypothetically) GMRS is going to be the better option.

Now, there is an epic amount of variables that can change those results, but generally speaking...

[Lscott]

51 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

Generally speaking (terrestrially), watt for watt, the lower the frequency the further the signal travels before it spreads into oblivion. 

With that understanding, if GMRS and MURS had the same power restrictions, MURS would provide better distance.  However, with GMRS, there is more than a 20 dB power advantage.  Therefore (at least hypothetically) GMRS is going to be the better option.

Now, there is an epic amount of variables that can change those results, but generally speaking...

For mobile radios on the repeater channels ok. With hand held radios using an external antenna. Maybe not.