Interacting with jammers and malicious operators... Big No-No

[WRQC527]

I've been a ham for 10 years and a GMRS licensee for about a month. One of the rules in the ham community is not to interact with jammers or other malicious operators. Even discussing jammers or malicious operators on the air is frowned on. There are at least a couple of reasons for this. One, interacting or discussing them encourages them to continue. Two, more importantly, it is generally illegal for a licensed operator to knowingly carry on a conversation with an unlicensed operator. For some reason, the GMRS licensee community, and to some degree the ham community, has not embraced this. One of the most prominent GMRS repeaters in southern California very clearly states this in their rules of operation that all their members and users sign as a condition of using the repeater. Yet their own net control operators argue with jammers and malicious operators during their regularly-scheduled nets. GMRS can be as valuable as any other licensed radio service if its users can bring themselves to absolutely ignore jammers and malicious operators, and absolutely do not discuss them on the air. Unfortunately, as in the ham community, there are licensees who honestly believe that scolding or reasoning with jammers and malicious operators will make them stop. It won't. It will make the problem worse. If you want your nets to be jammed by folks with nothing better to, by all means interact with them. And if you want to lose your license by talking with unlicensed operators, go right ahead. If you want to improve the situation and keep your license, read and live by the FCC rules and your repeater use agreement.

[OffRoaderX]

1 hour ago, WRQC527 said:

....if you want to lose your license by talking with unlicensed operators, go right ahead...

This sounds very serious!  Can you tell us how many have lost their license (ham or gmrs) for talking to an unlicensed operator in the last 10 years?

[marcspaz]

5 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

This sounds very serious!  Can you tell us how many have lost their license (ham or gmrs) for talking to an unlicensed operator in the last 10 years?

 

I lost my license while talking an unlicensed user,  Seriously.... I have no idea where I put it.  I ended up having to print another copy.

 

Ah.... I'm just joking.  I didn't lose my license, but i did get a strongly worded scolding from the club president.  He said "Don't feed the monkeys."

 

 

[OffRoaderX]

1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

He said "Don't feed the monkeys."

I agree with that club president and the OP, that talking to jammers/dickheads just lets them know they're doing a good job and gives them the attention that their mother never gave them as a child, but I really want to hear more facts from @WRQC527 about the FCC pulling licenses for talking to unlicensed operators.

 

[WRQC527]

OK Randy, just for you, I'll say this. I agree that the FCC probably has never revoked specifically a GMRS license in the history of GMRS licenses, (which I never said they did, and I you know that because you just re-read my post to try and nail me) and by the FCC even hinting at it, it's largely an empty threat. But the FCC can and does levy penalties, including monetary penalties and revoking of licenses across the spectrum, for misuse of the airwaves. You know this. I know this. We all know this. I have no idea if the FCC has ever revoked a GMRS license like they occasionally do with ham licenses, but I do know that they can, and folks have been fined for misuse of all manner of radio services, including GMRS radios. My point, and I know you get it, because from what I've seen, you're a smart man, is that by having a license, whether it's GMRS or any other, you become accountable for your behavior, and if a bunch of licensed idiots is running around on any radio service feeding the monkeys, it makes a mess of the airwaves for the rest of us.

[OffRoaderX]

It's not "largely" an empty threat, it is 100% an empty threat, based on the FCC's track record..  And for clarification for anyone following along at home, the ONLY penalties the FCC has levied in the last 10 years has been for doing things far and beyond anything that most rational people would even consider doing - and even then, they've only issued a handful.... and least I forget, paying the FCC for a license does not, in any way make anyone accountable for anything. It only makes one accountable if/when they choose to announce their callsign.

But as mentioned, I DO agree, that feeding the radio-monkeys (aka dickheads, jammers, malicious operators) is a bad idea, so we can still hug. 

[PACNWComms]

One reason why many people run their repeaters for their own use and others they trust only. This is a lot easier in the amateur bands as there are so many more options and variables. GMRS radio use, well, people can figure it out easily if they know what they are doing.....and more reason to not even acknowledge the trolls, jammers, or other people that mis-use the radio system in play. Sort of like school yard bullies, unless you are ready to draw blood to prove a point, you only feed them what they want, acknowledgement and the thought that they have power over you. I see this on here at times, people that bully others, to make themselves look more important, or reply with flippant answers, attempting to belittle others, this does impact the usefulness and utility of this site (and is most likely why it has not grown as quickly as other radio related sites). Great advice has been given, do not "feed" these people or it gets worse.

Some ways around this, use radios that have voice inversion (yes, some had/have this), do not acknowledge that you even hear these users, change channels, tones, or get off the air for a while. They do go away if they think they are unsuccessful. There will always be those that engage, and then rant about being jammed, trolled, or doxxed because of it, but it does not have to be you, if you keep it quiet. For clubs, business users, and individual families; bad news stays internal, good news goes public.

[Lscott]

3 hours ago, PACNWComms said:

One reason why many people run their repeaters for their own use and others they trust only. This is a lot easier in the amateur bands as there are so many more options and variables. GMRS radio use, well, people can figure it out easily if they know what they are doing.....and more reason to not even acknowledge the trolls, jammers, or other people that mis-use the radio system in play. Sort of like school yard bullies, unless you are ready to draw blood to prove a point, you only feed them what they want, acknowledgement and the thought that they have power over you. I see this on here at times, people that bully others, to make themselves look more important, or reply with flippant answers, attempting to belittle others, this does impact the usefulness and utility of this site (and is most likely why it has not grown as quickly as other radio related sites). Great advice has been given, do not "feed" these people or it gets worse.

Some ways around this, use radios that have voice inversion (yes, some had/have this), do not acknowledge that you even hear these users, change channels, tones, or get off the air for a while. They do go away if they think they are unsuccessful. There will always be those that engage, and then rant about being jammed, trolled, or doxxed because of it, but it does not have to be you, if you keep it quiet. For clubs, business users, and individual families; bad news stays internal, good news goes public.

You can no longer use voice inversion on GMRS. That was one of the changes made in the 2017/2018 rule updates I believe.

[WRQC527]

7 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

 so we can still hug. 

OK, but a closed-fist bro hug. I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea. This would be sort of unprecedented, too. A Ham/GMRS hug. Like a Begin/Arafat handshake. As you probably guessed, I have zero tolerance for anyone who interacts with or discusses jammers on the air. If scaring them with toothless FCC threats gets their attention, it's worth the ridicule I get here. I didn't pay my $35 plus a $12 annual repeater access fee to listen to a bunch of morons argue with a bunch of dickheads, jammers, and malicious operators.

[Sandspur]

Honestly, I don't really have any interest in "carding" whoever I'm talking with to see if they have a license. I also don't get too wound up if they don't use their callsign. I use mine, but that's just me. I see GMRS as just another form of communication and I have no interest in the radio hobby as such. For a while I thought I may get my technician's license, but decided it wouldn't be useful for family use. It's impractical for each family member to have to learn a bunch of radio trivia just to be able talk back and forth. 

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, Sandspur said:

Honestly, I don't really have any interest in "carding" whoever I'm talking with to see if they have a license. I also don't get too wound up if they don't use their callsign. I use mine, but that's just me. I see GMRS as just another form of communication and I have no interest in the radio hobby as such. For a while I thought I may get my technician's license, but decided it wouldn't be useful for family use. It's impractical for each family member to have to learn a bunch of radio trivia just to be able talk back and forth. 

Same here. If I figure out they have no license, whether it's GMRS or ham, I ignore them. And like you, I got the GMRS license so my wife and I can keep in contact on repeaters when I'm off exploring outside of cell coverage, since she's not really interested in the ham license. 

[jnr0104]

In our area of texas 99.9% of people causing problems are construction crews, crain operating crews etc, we have found if we go over to the simplex channel they are illegally operating on and ask if their supervisor is availble, then explain the 2017 rule changes etc, they have moved off to an frs channel where they dont need a license , and we dont hear them on the repeaters anymore. So far all have been good folks

[wrci350]

5 hours ago, jnr0104 said:

 the simplex channel they are illegally operating on and ask if their supervisor is availble, then explain the 2017 rule changes

How are they operating illegally?  The FRS channels are the same as the GMRS channels with the exception of the repeater inputs.  The only difference is permitted power level.  So if they are using the channel that happens to be the output of your repeater I'm sure that's annoying, and I don't have an issue with you politely asking them to move to a different channel, but they aren't doing anything against the Part 95 rules.

Or am I missing something?