New to GMRS, and need help with connecting to repeaters.

[WRTS290]

Hey yall!  Just got my gmrs license yesterday, and trying to hookup to my local repeater, and I cannot confirm if it works or not.  I have two radios, and I cannot seem to use them to transmit through the repeater.  

 

I am using Tidradio td-h5? I think is the model.  Any help, advice,tips,and tricks are super appreciated. 

WRTS290 - Standing by!

[KAF6045]

The repeater is on .550. You'll need to check your radio manual for which repeater channel has the .550. (Judging by the skimpy manual I found, you may have multiple repeater "channels" on .550 -- so you could have multiple repeaters using the same frequency but with different tones).

Your radio will transmit on 467.550, using a transmit tone of 136.5 (you can leave the receive tone OFF until you confirm the repeater is accessed). Your radio will receive on 462.550.

If you have both units configured for repeater mode, then they are both transmitting on a 467. frequency and listening on a 462. frequency -- so naturally, they can't talk to each other. To do that you need to go to a simplex (non-repeater) channel where they transmit and receive on the same frequency.

 

PS: Posting the same thing in multiple forums just results in split responses and overhead of finding information.

 

[WRHS218]

Are you close enough to the repeater to reach it? Can you hear traffic on the repeater at all? I don't know your radio but if the repeater requires tones make sure you have the correct TX tone selected on your radio. You might want to leave the RX tone off until you are sure you can open up the repeater. If the tones are correct do you hear a squelch tail when you transmit? If you are not opening the repeater and everything else is correct you might try moving closer to the repeater and see if you can open it. Try all this on both radios. Will the radios talk to each other on simplex? You could try the Talk Around feature if your radio has it to see if the radios will communicate to each other. try getting some distance between the radios if you can. I imagine someone else will correct me or add anything I didn't know or think of. Let us know what happens.

[WRTS290]

14 minutes ago, WRHS218 said:

Are you close enough to the repeater to reach it? Can you hear traffic on the repeater at all? I don't know your radio but if the repeater requires tones make sure you have the correct TX tone selected on your radio. You might want to leave the RX tone off until you are sure you can open up the repeater. If the tones are correct do you hear a squelch tail when you transmit? If you are not opening the repeater and everything else is correct you might try moving closer to the repeater and see if you can open it. Try all this on both radios. Will the radios talk to each other on simplex? You could try the Talk Around feature if your radio has it to see if the radios will communicate to each other. try getting some distance between the radios if you can. I imagine someone else will correct me or add anything I didn't know or think of. Let us know what happens.

WRHS218 -  Thank you for taking the time to respond!  I am a total noob, so please bear with me.   How do I know if it requires tones?

Basically according to mygmrs.com there is a repeater in my area, less than a mile away with a 5 mile radius.  "Herndon 550"  so I ... the noob, figured I could connect with it.   The radio has channels, 1-22 then 1-8 repeater channels, and then DIY 1 - 24 ...54 total channels, how do I know which one is the repeater?  When I go into "VFO" mode, and input the frequency, and the input/output tunes which I believe is setting RX CTSS, and TX CTSS in the setting menu to 136.5 as listed on the page, but I get no nothing.  I have tried transmitting, and requesting confirmation in the form of a "communication check"  but I never get anything back.  If I do the same thing with both radios, the two units are unable to talk back in forth to each other as if they were on any of the regular channels listed above.  

 

That's where I am at.  

WRTS290

[WRTS290]

So per my manual channel 22 has the same frequency, but do I need to plug the tone into the settings?  OR does 22 just automatically associate with that repeater?  I have heard that the offset happens automatically, and no need to attempt to program that, but I am having a hard time understanding the tone component, and if I am connected to the repeater or not?  Everything just sounds totally silent, and not hearing any other transmissions or communication at all.  So how can I tell if there's just no traffic VS. I did something wrong? Is this normal?  I have had 0 success less just picking a pre programed channel. 

[wayoverthere]

57 minutes ago, WRTS290 said:

So per my manual channel 22 has the same frequency, but do I need to plug the tone into the settings?  OR does 22 just automatically associate with that repeater?  I have heard that the offset happens automatically, and no need to attempt to program that, but I am having a hard time understanding the tone component, and if I am connected to the repeater or not?  Everything just sounds totally silent, and not hearing any other transmissions or communication at all.  So how can I tell if there's just no traffic VS. I did something wrong? Is this normal?  I have had 0 success less just picking a pre programed channel. 

Usually the simplex (transmit and receive on the same frequency) channel for 462.725  is named something like GMRS22, while the repeater (or duplex) channel, named something like REPT22, has the offset needed to use a repeater preset. (Your radio transmits on 467.725, and receives on 462.725).

Nearly all repeaters also require a tone; this is basically a filter on what the receiver hears, and only signals with the matching tone get through, everything else is ignored. If the repeater uses tones, you'll need the right one for it to hear you. Using one on what you receive is optional. You'll do this on the repeater channel that he's the frequency you want to use.

In terms of knowing if you got in or not, you may hear a bit of static, a tone, a transmit with no audio (known as a squelch tail), or the repeater may then identify itself, verbally or in Morse/CW.

[WRDB702]

 

1 hour ago, WRTS290 said:

 So how can I tell if there's just no traffic VS. I did something wrong? Is this normal?  I have had 0 success less just picking a pre programed channel. 

Assuming you have the owner's permission to access the repeater or it is an Open repeater...

Channel 15 "should" be the corresponding "radio to radio" channel.  If your radios are able to talk to each other on channel 15 then make sure the "code" is set to none or off and listen for a while. You can switch back to repeater channel 1 once you know the radios are working fine on channel 15, just make sure the receive code on repeater channel 1 is set to none or off as well.

If you still hear no activity then either the repeater is inactive at the moment or you are out of range. Range is affected by more than just the owner's estimated radius. Buildings, hills, trees, and other things can interfere with radio signals.

Try moving close to the repeater and (with transmit code set to match the repeater's input code) transmit your FCC GMRS ID .  Listen for a "kerchunk" or short burst of static as a confirmation that you have "connected to the repeater".  Keep moving closer to the repeater and trying again until you get a reply (either a burst of static or another person).

If you still can't connect to the repeater you may need to contact the owner to see if the repeater is even online.  But if you do connect...

Once you have a confirmation you are reaching the repeater, start moving further from the repeater until you get back to your original location. Note if and/or where you lose connection.

You could try a better antenna and/or try different locations. (I have a sweet spot at home where I can reach a repeater 20 miles away, but if I move a couple inches I loose the repeater completely.)

The process is a lot easier if you have two people working together on this with one of you staying within connection range of the repeater while the other moves around. (Create your own traffic.)

Unfortunately it is possible the repeater is simply not reachable and there is absolutely nothing wrong with your setup.  Keep checking from time to time and from different locations of you're sure the repeater is online.

Jim

[BoxCar]

The TID radio has 8 repeater channels labeled RPT-1 through RPT-8. These are the channels you need to use for talking on the repeater. The radio is tuned to receive on the repeater's output channel and transmit on the repeater's input channel which is 5 MHz above the receive frequency. You will need to add the repeater's tone to your radio's transmit in order for the repeater to unlock for your transmission.

[hfd376]

Don't forget to contact the repeater's owner for permission. Is that in Herndon, Virginia?

[WRTS290]

I have contacted all the repeaters for permission, and found a stronger one with a longer range just south of the Herndon one that I will also use to test that said I was good to go. 

Thanks for all the help everyone, I am going to try fumbling through this some more tonight, but still unsuccessful so far. 

[marcspaz]

3 hours ago, WRTS290 said:

I have contacted all the repeaters for permission, and found a stronger one with a longer range just south of the Herndon one that I will also use to test that said I was good to go. 

Thanks for all the help everyone, I am going to try fumbling through this some more tonight, but still unsuccessful so far. 

 

You must be talking about Mike's repeater on Bull Run Mountain on channel pair 19 (x.650). That repeater is a rock star.

 

It is intentionally unpublished. Any licensed operator is welcome to use it, as long as you are by the rules.  Mike wants locals using a specific tone so we don't cause interference with the Ellicott City repeater. If that is the repeater you're talking about and Mike hasn't given you the tone already, shoot me a PM and I'll give it to you.

[WRTS290]

3 hours ago, marcspaz said:

 

You must be talking about Mike's repeater on Bull Run Mountain on channel pair 19 (x.650). That repeater is a rock star.

 

It is intentionally unpublished. Any licensed operator is welcome to use it, as long as you are by the rules.  Mike wants locals using a specific tone so we don't cause interference with the Ellicott City repeater. If that is the repeater you're talking about and Mike hasn't given you the tone already, shoot me a PM and I'll give it to you.

I would love to take you up on this!  I really don't have any idea on how to compare what works, and what doesn't ... and honestly it's a little frustrating.  I got these radios, and my license just for redundant communication between my wife, and I.  I am having an impossible time communicating even if we are only a mile apart.  

As a visual learner, and everyone basically echoing the same thing, and me with zero success...I wonder if this is just hopeless for me haha.

[marcspaz]

29 minutes ago, WRTS290 said:

As a visual learner, and everyone basically echoing the same thing, and me with zero success...I wonder if this is just hopeless for me haha.

 

 

Nah...  I am sending you a PM in just a minute to help out, but worst case, we are close enough that we can just meetup and we can go over it in-person.

[KAF6045]

1 hour ago, WRTS290 said:

I would love to take you up on this!  I really don't have any idea on how to compare what works, and what doesn't ... and honestly it's a little frustrating.  I got these radios, and my license just for redundant communication between my wife, and I.  I am having an impossible time communicating even if we are only a mile apart.  

A one mile distance SHOULD be within range for simplex GMRS power levels [2-5W HT,  up to 50W mobile]. After all, you are talking abut hitting a repeater many miles away with the same power levels (yes, the repeater is likely on a tall tower, up high, so you aren't going through many layers of buildings or trees). (Yesterday I was picking up what sounded like staff at a furniture store over a half mile radius via the stubby mag-mount on my rust bucket; they may have come through even further since I'm assuming they were in either Woodland or Centerpointe/Eastbrook mall, but a) I had the rig in scanning mode and b) they may have stopped talking) -- though you may want something other than the stock rubber duck antenna (I'm presuming hand-held units).

DON'T TRY the test with "8"-"14"; in the consolidated numbering list those are still 0.5W max. Make sure both units are programmed identically as to CTCSS tones (for testing -- turn them off!). Easiest way to ensure identical programming is to use the computer software and a programming cable, set up power levels (if stored with channels) and tones (as stated, start with no tones on the simplex channels). Save the settings in the software, then write them to each radio. I suggest testing on channels "1"-"7" to reduce interference from repeaters in the vicinity. Channels "15"-"22" are the same receive frequencies as (for you) Repeater "1"-"8" (in the FCC consolidated numbering, these are "23"-"30", OR a radio may use "15"-"22" with an RPTR nomenclature (RPTR15 vs GMRS15).

Ensure you have working simplex (same channel, same tone [none], same power) at ranges starting from, say, opposite sides of your front lawn. Extend the distance by a few houses, and continue so long as you have bidirectional contact*. Note that if one or both are inside a vehicle, the vehicle body may act as a Faraday cage -- at the least it will attenuate your signal (get a mag mount antenna on the roof and pass a coax through a door/window with a fitting for the radio). The attenuation may be sufficient that you are not heard, but can still hear the other.

 

 

* my house is a terrible RF cage -- steel roof and aluminum siding! Yet, somehow my Amateur HTs can hear my hotspot (about 10mW) from 1/8-1/4 mile away -- but the hotspot can't hear the HT even at 5W high power from that distance! It also seems to have a lot of RF dead spots in and outside -- picking up NOAA weather from the driveway I can find an 8-ft diameter circle where reception is okay, only to his a null outside that circle until I have walked 15-20 feet where another circle will be found... (I think this has gotten worse since the town buried the power lines and took down the old pole strung power cables).

 

[marcspaz]

 

@KAF6045 I am not sure where about you live, but Garret and I are in the same general area.  With an HT, person to person, less than a mile is pretty normal range around here, depending on where both stations are.  In my immediate neighborhood, my max range with a handheld to a mobile is only about 2,000 feet.  HT to HT is even less.  Once I leave the neighborhood, it opens up to about 2 miles.

[WRQC340]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:22 PM, KAF6045 said:

The repeater is on .550. You'll need to check your radio manual for which repeater channel has the .550. (Judging by the skimpy manual I found, you may have multiple repeater "channels" on .550 -- so you could have multiple repeaters using the same frequency but with different tones).

Your radio will transmit on 467.550, using a transmit tone of 136.5 (you can leave the receive tone OFF until you confirm the repeater is accessed). Your radio will receive on 462.550.

If you have both units configured for repeater mode, then they are both transmitting on a 467. frequency and listening on a 462. frequency -- so naturally, they can't talk to each other. To do that you need to go to a simplex (non-repeater) channel where they transmit and receive on the same frequency.

 

PS: Posting the same thing in multiple forums just results in split responses and overhead of finding information.

 

I used chirp to program radio # 2 to listen on the TX frequency (467.6000) and the tone 141.3 which is my local repeater. I could pick up the repeater on radio #1 but when I transmitted on #1 I got nothing. The repeater is to far for my TX. However, I don't understand what the issue is for radio #2 to not receive when I tx.

[Sshannon]

18 minutes ago, WRQC340 said:

I used chirp to program radio # 2 to listen on the TX frequency (467.6000) and the tone 141.3 which is my local repeater. I could pick up the repeater on radio #1 but when I transmitted on #1 I got nothing. The repeater is to far for my TX. However, I don't understand what the issue is for radio #2 to not receive when I tx.

Leave the receive tone empty on #2 and try again. If it receives, then the problem was the wrong tone on one or the other. 
The other possibility is that #2 is too close to #1 and is desensing. 

[WRQC340]

Thank you for helping. In CHIRP can't I put 141.3 in both the tone and TSQL columns (Cross) and be able to TX and RX just like a regular channel only using one channel?? 

[marcspaz]

I am missing something.  If you want to talk direct simplex, the channel would be setup like this for both radios....

 

On the repeater, both would be configured like this....

 

And if you want to user the repeater and only hear the repeater output when someone is talking, both would be configured like this....

 

Of course, adjust your channel names and power levels as desired.

[KAF6045]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:50 AM, WRQC340 said:

Thank you for helping. In CHIRP can't I put 141.3 in both the tone and TSQL columns (Cross) and be able to TX and RX just like a regular channel only using one channel?? 

Don't confuse "channel" for "frequency". A radio set up for a repeater channel ALWAYS transmits on 467.xxx and receives on 462.xxx -- two frequencies, but only one "channel" (before the FRS/GMRS kerfuffle GMRS channels were NOT identified by number; your channel 1 (out of the two you were authorized in those days) might have been my channel 2 (or not even one of the frequencies I was authorized to use). "Channels" were identified by the .xxx in frequency.

Radio to Radio (simplex) transmits on the 462.xxx frequency, which the other radio is set to receive. One frequency.

(The MXT-115 uses a menu entry to toggle "15"-"22" from simplex (Tx and Rx on 462.xxx) to duplex (repeater mode, Tx on 467.xxx, Rx on 462.xxx). The "channel number" does not change in this radio -- just a little display marker off to the side "15" vs "15   R".

 

20220729 Retraction: closer examination shows that the MXT repeater switch doesn't toggle 15-22 from simplex to duplex, but rather activates/deactivates 8 repeater "channels" numbered 15-22, in addition to the simplex 15-22.