TidRadio H8 HAM on GRMS channels with 10 watts? What high powered radios are open channels?

[WRZF693]

Hey folks..

I know the TidRadio 10 watt ham radio isn't meant for GRMS frequencies, but if you used it as a ham radio couldn't you just type in the GRMS channels and use say a repeater channel so you'd get the full 10 watts ? Not that I'd ever do so, but just wondering..  Could you buy the h8 ham and then just program in the GRMS frequencies  and erase or only use the HAM channels to listen to ? Again, not that I'm suggesting this to anyone, just wondering if it would work? Like in Emergency?  
Are there any higher powered HT's that have all the frequencies available to use in an Emergency? 

Thanks in advance.. Great forum! 

[OffRoaderX]

Yes, you can do that, and nobody would care... 

But dont forget that the HAM version does not have "channels", so you would have to program them all as you mentioned, and also manually set & configure your repeater channels.. Not a big deal if you know/understand how to do that, but based on your question I am guessing that you may not know how.

Also, as I'm sure you know, there is virtually 0 difference in farz between 8 watts and 10 watts - the only difference you will see is the battery draining faster.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WRZF693 said:

Hey folks..

I know the TidRadio 10 watt ham radio isn't meant for GRMS frequencies, but if you used it as a ham radio couldn't you just type in the GRMS channels and use say a repeater channel so you'd get the full 10 watts ? Not that I'd ever do so, but just wondering..  Could you buy the h8 ham and then just program in the GRMS frequencies  and erase or only use the HAM channels to listen to ? Again, not that I'm suggesting this to anyone, just wondering if it would work? Like in Emergency?  
Are there any higher powered HT's that have all the frequencies available to use in an Emergency? 

Thanks in advance.. Great forum! 

As mentioned using a Ham Radio on GMRS is not legal.

On the other point about high power HT's.

Most people find out the Chinese radios rarely generate the claimed power output. I've seen claims of HT's that can do 20 to 30 watts plus. Just not believable.

The other point is the higher output power drains the battery pack faster resulting in far less operating time. Also the radios are not 100 percent efficient. For various reasons the real world efficiency is about 50 percent. That means if the radio is doing an honest 10 watts of output the battery is being drained at a 20 watt rate. Further the 10 watts of heat generated, 20 watts input minus the 10 watts of output, is soaked up by the tiny body of the radio. Those palm sized radios are the worse. Even a 5 watt radio turns into an uncomfortable "hand warmer" when operated at high duty cycles. A few Hams have destroyed their HT's power output stage doing this from the heat generated and the high internal temperatures. One posting else where the Ham said he did this more than once to the same radio. There is a reason why you see the duty cycle specifications of 5-5-90, 5 percent transmit - 5 percent receive - 90 percent standby. 

[FlatTop]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:06 AM, sjl777 said:

If you unlock the GMRS version and set the power to High you will transmit on 10W.  I just tried it out and the radio shows it was transmitting at 10W.

Hook it up to a dummy load and a watt meter and check it. 

[back4more70]

Not every radio will output full power on every band. A radio may output 10 watts on VHF, but only 8 watts on UHF, for example.

[SteveShannon]

9 hours ago, back4more70 said:

Not every radio will output full power on every band. A radio may output 10 watts on VHF, but only 8 watts on UHF, for example.

It’s common for GMRS radios to transmit different power on different channels even. Getting wound up over a watt of variability is an exercise in obsessiveness and frustration. 

[WRXB215]

There are many ham radios that can transmit on GMRS. It's just not legal to do so.

[sjl777]

If you unlock the GMRS version and set the power to High you will transmit on 10W.  I just tried it out and the radio shows it was transmitting at 10W.

The ohter GMRS quirk is the fact that you do not have all 199 channel/memory locations available as transmit and receive.  If you look in your GMRS version manual, you see that you get 22 programmable TX/RX channels and 158 RX only channels.  Any channel starting with 53 and higher will not transmit.  You will get the warning beep from the radio when you key the PTT.  When you change the radio to HAM or Unlocked the limits go away.  I asked Tidradio why the GMRS is limited on the total number of TX capable channels and they did not give me an answer other than GMRS radio are limited on which frequencies they can use. 

Firmware updates will not ulock the RX only channels in the GMRS radio.  Unlocking the radio fully will. 

The only downside i see with the radio unlocked is that you can transmit on the NOAA channels.  You cannot make any channel RX only via ODMaster, CHIRP, or the radio menu.  I suggested this should be a future firmware option and that the RX only memory location should be unlocked in the GMRS version of the radio.

[WRYZ926]

For those with unlocked radios, you can use CHIRP  to turn TX off on individual channels by turning duplex to off.

[Lscott]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:06 AM, sjl777 said:

If you unlock the GMRS version and set the power to High you will transmit on 10W.  I just tried it out and the radio shows it was transmitting at 10W.

Just because the radio says it's doing 10 watts means nothing. Put it on something like a calibrated watt meter. Some years back people were buying Baofeng radios that "claimed" to do 8 watts. Once they were tested on a watt meter the real power output was around the 5 to 6 range. Oh well just typical for a Chinese radio to over state the spec's.

[WRYZ926]

2 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Just because the radio says it's doing 10 watts means nothing. Put it on something like a calibrated watt meter. Some years back people were buying Baofeng radios that "claimed" to do 8 watts. Once they were tested on a watt meter the real power output was around the 5 to 6 range. Oh well just typical for a Chinese radio to over state the spec's.

That can be said about a lot of different products from radios to audio amplifiers or even generators. Most manufacturers will advertise the peak power rating instead of the continuous running power rating. And I have to agree that using a meter will tell the true story. We have seen different radios be below the stated power and some above the rated power.

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Just because the radio says it's doing 10 watts means nothing. Put it on something like a calibrated watt meter. Some years back people were buying Baofeng radios that "claimed" to do 8 watts. Once they were tested on a watt meter the real power output was around the 5 to 6 range. Oh well just typical for a Chinese radio to over state the spec's.

As an example, a friend of mine has two Baofeng radios. One was supposed to transmit at 5 watts and the other at 8 watts. When we put my wattmeter on them both the five watt model put out 6.5 watts and the eight watt model put out 6 watts.

[WRZF693]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:12 AM, WRYZ926 said:

That can be said about a lot of different products from radios to audio amplifiers or even generators. Most manufacturers will advertise the peak power rating instead of the continuous running power rating. And I have to agree that using a meter will tell the true story. We have seen different radios be below the stated power and some above the rated power.

Yes indeed.  I totally agree.. All companies use numbers that show their products are the best and use the extreme best conditionis to state the stats of their respective products. 

Still, If I can use a 10 watt radio in an Emergency over a 5 watt and all things being equal I get even a little more power, then I'm all for it. I want as much on my side as possible was what I was trying to say, but I probably didn't explain it that well.. 

[WRZF693]

Thanks everyone.. I'm also looking at Antennas to use.. I think I'll buy the tidradio hd8 to use as a SHTF radio if needed. 
Thanks again all! 
Tim

[jwilkers]

Just because the radio says it's doing 10 watts means nothing. Put it on something like a calibrated watt meter. Some years back people were buying Baofeng radios that "claimed" to do 8 watts. Once they were tested on a watt meter the real power output was around the 5 to 6 range. Oh well just typical for a Chinese radio to over state the spec's.

The H8 has a 10.watt output per a watt meter.

Sent from my SM-A136U using Tapatalk

[WRYZ926]

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

It’s common for GMRS radios to transmit different power on different channels even. Getting wound up over a watt of variability is an exercise in obsessiveness and frustration. 

And one won't notice a difference between 4-10 watts.

[WRZF693]

Thanks everyone.  I guess I'd be better off using the radios I have with a better antenna, but I still might buy the tidradio hd8 because it at least can be unlocked in an emergency and then the ham and other bands used so that you only need one radio to communicate with everyone.  Which to me is a great feature.. I'm sure there are other radios that will also do this, but Tidradio actually wrote me and told me how when I asked. I had already bought a 2 pack of their GMRS radios and they have worked great.  I am able to get about 4.3 miles via flat ground mostly, although I live in a sorta bowl and some woods and we were able to talk no problem with just a little static, but still very understandable which is all I want.. 

I don't understand why in this day and age all radios aren't IP 64 and USB C chargeable.  It would seem that wouldn't be that much extra to manufacture? 

Thanks again folks.. 

[WRXB215]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:20 PM, WRYZ926 said:

And one won't notice a difference between 4-10 watts.

If you are trying to penetrate a bunch of  dense trees it will make a difference.

[WRYZ926]

21 minutes ago, WRXB215 said:

If you are trying to penetrate a bunch of  dense trees it will make a difference.

Not as much as going from 5 watts to 20 watts or even 50 watts. And in most case one won't notice much difference between 4 to 10 watts.

[back4more70]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but receiver sensitivity is a big deal as well.  If you are blasting out but you can't hear a return call, that might be frustrating to say the least.