Can you reduce syllables in your call sign ("Ten" instead of "One-Zee-Roh")?

[Guest Mike in Arizona]

My call sign was approved today so I am posting as a guest until I can create an account.

Can you use a short form of numbers and/or unambiguous English words in a call sign.

For example WDOG810 (made up): Dah-Bull-You-Dog-Eight-Ten (6 syllables) instead of Dah-Bull-You-Dee-Oh-Gee-Eight-One-Zee-Roh (10 syllables)?

I double the letter "O" is ever assigned, but I have such a unambiguous English word opportunity and number shortening opportunity in my call sign.

[SteveShannon]

Technically, you should pronounce each character, but realistically, for GMRS nobody cares.  The fact that you even attempt to ID is better than most people do.

[WRXB215]

I've gotten to where I say very slowly so I don't have to say it again. Sometimes I even say it phonetically for that very reason.

For me, it can be frustrating when people say their call sign so fast I can't even begin to get it all. It's like saying ";alkdsjflsd;kjewl;knf;aej." And I'm like what?

[WRUE951]

WRUE-NineFiftyOne  - And that's just the way it is...  

 

[SvenMarbles]

I’ll allow it.

[WSAT510]

Thanks for the replies.  Registered now.

[Guest RockyMtnWay406]

I'm in a similar boat as this original poster. Just wanting to be able to connect to GMRS repeaters in my area. I've obtained my FRN from FCC, paid my $35 but am stuck on getting a call sign. 

[Darmie]

5 hours ago, Guest RockyMtnWay406 said:

I'm in a similar boat as this original poster. Just wanting to be able to connect to GMRS repeaters in my area. I've obtained my FRN from FCC, paid my $35 but am stuck on getting a call sign. 

Won't be long. I think I checked the next day or so, and it was there. While you are logged in, save your original license to your computer incase you need to send it any private repeater club that you may join.

[back4more70]

Then I want to use Whisky Seven Sexy for my HAM ID.  It's only fair.

[OffRoaderX]

1 minute ago, back4more70 said:

my HAM ID

It's H.A.M.!  You passed a test, you should know better.

[back4more70]

1 hour ago, OffRoaderX said:

It's H.A.M.!  You passed a test, you should know better.

Sir, I'll have you know that I passed two tests to get my General license 

[WRKC935]

So, I am gonna scuttle all the SAD HAM dreams of full phonetic call signs here and now.

There is ZERO requirement for a call sign to be said phonetically.  It is done when needed to communicate a call sign to a receiving station when signal levels are not great and you are wanting to get that information through. 

My call sign as assigned by the FCC is WRKC935, NOT Whiskey Romeo Kilo Charlie niner three five.  NO WHERE on my FCC license is listed anything similar to that. Or even sort of close.  All it says is WRKC935.  Ham is the same way.  KB8VUL is my ham call,,,, not the phonetic equivalent.  Hammie's use phonetics a lot on HF and for good reason.  You are trying to communicate great distances at times with less than 100% copy-able signals and are fighting noise (QRM and QRN) to make contacts.  We are not using HF, SSB, QRP (weak signal) and typically not using simplex, we are talking through repeaters that provide us solidly copy-able signals.  So using ITU phonetics, LEO phonetics, or adhoc Phonetics (crap we make up on the fly) just adds to the syllable count.  I know guys that do it, some have a Z at the end of their call sight and can't help but say Zed.  Other guys are all phonetics all the time.  But there have actually been questions raised by others if ONLY giving your call sign phonetically is actually legally IDing you station at all.  Because we come back to what was issued by the FCC.  Especially if non-ITU standardized phonetics are used for a call. 

Consider this.  How many radio stations, commercial radio operators, public safety dispatchers or for that matter, ANY other radio user outside of Ham radio use ITU phonetics outside of maybe the military use phonetics for anything outside of reading license plates, VIN numbers and other specifically alphanumeric number/letter groups including their call signs. 

Phonetics are used to save time when signal degradation is expected, such as in HF or weak signal communications.  And it has it's place there.  Not on FM repeaters with full quieting signals.  Or when someone is copying alphanumeric groups that need to be accurate.  If there was a specific requirement for us to log every contact we made with date, time and call sign then it MIGHT apply, but only if you are ask to REPEAT your call because the other party didn't get it accurately. 

That's my take on it.  Of course you know what they say about opinions. 

[SteveShannon]

7 minutes ago, WRKC935 said:

So, I am gonna scuttle all the SAD HAM dreams of full phonetic call signs here and now.

There is ZERO requirement for a call sign to be said phonetically.  It is done when needed to communicate a call sign to a receiving station when signal levels are not great and you are wanting to get that information through. 

My call sign as assigned by the FCC is WRKC935, NOT Whiskey Romeo Kilo Charlie niner three five.  NO WHERE on my FCC license is listed anything similar to that. Or even sort of close.  All it says is WRKC935.  Ham is the same way.  KB8VUL is my ham call,,,, not the phonetic equivalent.  Hammie's use phonetics a lot on HF and for good reason.  You are trying to communicate great distances at times with less than 100% copy-able signals and are fighting noise (QRM and QRN) to make contacts.  We are not using HF, SSB, QRP (weak signal) and typically not using simplex, we are talking through repeaters that provide us solidly copy-able signals.  So using ITU phonetics, LEO phonetics, or adhoc Phonetics (crap we make up on the fly) just adds to the syllable count.  I know guys that do it, some have a Z at the end of their call sight and can't help but say Zed.  Other guys are all phonetics all the time.  But there have actually been questions raised by others if ONLY giving your call sign phonetically is actually legally IDing you station at all.  Because we come back to what was issued by the FCC.  Especially if non-ITU standardized phonetics are used for a call. 

Consider this.  How many radio stations, commercial radio operators, public safety dispatchers or for that matter, ANY other radio user outside of Ham radio use ITU phonetics outside of maybe the military use phonetics for anything outside of reading license plates, VIN numbers and other specifically alphanumeric number/letter groups including their call signs. 

Phonetics are used to save time when signal degradation is expected, such as in HF or weak signal communications.  And it has it's place there.  Not on FM repeaters with full quieting signals.  Or when someone is copying alphanumeric groups that need to be accurate.  If there was a specific requirement for us to log every contact we made with date, time and call sign then it MIGHT apply, but only if you are ask to REPEAT your call because the other party didn't get it accurately. 

That's my take on it.  Of course you know what they say about opinions. 

Did someone say that phonetics were required?

[WRKC935]

7 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Did someone say that phonetics were required?

No, that wasn't said specifically.  Just commenting that it's NOT required, and can be annoying when you have people that do it all the time on an FM repeater, regardless of the service. 

And I did say that on HF it certainly has it's place.  Of course I got gifted with Victor Uniform Lima, which sort of sucks both phonetically and with CW for trying to work a pile up.  So I went a different route dealing with that.  Big Amplifier, bigger antenna.  Gonna slip an audio compressor, gate and processor in the mike path and get the 'voice of God' thing going too.  But that's another story for another time.  And there will be no doubt that some will find that as irritating as I find phonetic call signs used on FM repeaters as a default rather than only when needed. 

But yeah, there is a bit of jealousy in there too.  I would rather be hollering some like Kilo Siera trying to work a rare bit of DX than Victor Uniform Lima.  Might have to put a digital voice recorder in the audio path as well and just have a button to do that. 

 

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, WRKC935 said:

No, that wasn't said specifically.  Just commenting that it's NOT required, and can be annoying when you have people that do it all the time on an FM repeater, regardless of the service. 

And I did say that on HF it certainly has it's place.  Of course I got gifted with Victor Uniform Lima, which sort of sucks both phonetically and with CW for trying to work a pile up.  So I went a different route dealing with that.  Big Amplifier, bigger antenna.  Gonna slip an audio compressor, gate and processor in the mike path and get the 'voice of God' thing going too.  But that's another story for another time.  And there will be no doubt that some will find that as irritating as I find phonetic call signs used on FM repeaters as a default rather than only when needed. 

But yeah, there is a bit of jealousy in there too.  I would rather be hollering some like Kilo Siera trying to work a rare bit of DX than Victor Uniform Lima.  Might have to put a digital voice recorder in the audio path as well and just have a button to do that. 

 

My call sign is AI7KS.  I started out calling it just that way and when I’m on a net where others know my call sign that’s what I use, but I found out very quickly that a leading A is more often mistaken for a K than correctly interpreted as an A.  They would say “Come now with your call sign, first name, and location.”

i would respond, going slowly because I know how difficult it is to hear it quickly “A I 7 K S, Steve in Butte.”

They would respond “I’ve got you in the log KI7KS. Are there any other check-ins?”  

That exact same mistake happens on 2 meter nets, 40 meter nets, and random on-air contacts. I realized that’s its difficult to hear the difference between a K and an A in English. There’s a stop at the beginning of both characters and both make the long A sound.

So, when introducing myself on air for the first time I simply say “alpha India seven kilo sierra, AI7KS, Steve, from Butte.”  

I absolutely agree that the regulations don’t require it, but sometimes conditions do in a practical sense.

But I see nothing wrong with Victor Uniform Lima as part of a call sign.  I will listen for it.

[WRXB215]

For me, its the D that's the problem. People will typically hear it as a T if I don't use phonetics. That happened just this morning driving to work. "TYT!? That's a cool call sign!" And that is not the first time I've heard that.

On the other hand, I get the CW thing. I'm trying to learn Morse code now. 20wpm isn't for the faint of heart. And to think, some people go way faster than that. 

[SvenMarbles]

You can give your call in CW, and it's not your problem if anyone understands it...

[WRUE951]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:39 PM, Sshannon said:

Did someone say that phonetics were required?

 a lot of HAM beginners listen to NETS and probably feel they are suppose to say their call sign phonetically because that's what they do on NETS..  Just a few weeks ago i was listening in on WiN and a net controller was calling for new HAMS to identify.. One person identified in alpha and numeral sequence,  NET controller asked him to repeat phonetically, guy repeats again in alpha numeral.  NET controller get's pissed and tells the guy if he wishes to use the club repeater he will follow club requirements/rules, one of them being phonetic call signs when requested. Guy went silent.  I then went to their club rule page and no where did i see anything applying to use of phonetic call signs.   Most Net controllers on WIN and PAPA (less on PAPA) require phonetic call sign and i would bet it all started by ex-military HAMS because the military actually teaches phonetic use which in turn rolled over to Law Enforcement..   The FBI seldom uses phonetics.   You are right, no where in the rules does it apply phonetic requirement for call signs other than suggesting morse code is acceptable.   

[WRZY946]

I announce mine phonetically just because it's easier to hear it and know what it means.

For me, people mumbling in a call like "arshieog8euia4l3serjfa" is really hard to understand for me. Especially when the signal's down in the noise a bit, they're talking fast, and/or have an accent.

Whisky Romeo Zulu Yankee 9-4-6 is easy to write down and said slow enough to actually grok it the first time without clogging up air for net control or any listeners trying to ID me.

[WRKC935]

15 hours ago, WRUE951 said:

 a lot of HAM beginners listen to NETS and probably feel they are suppose to say their call sign phonetically because that's what they do on NETS..  Just a few weeks ago i was listening in on WiN and a net controller was calling for new HAMS to identify.. One person identified in alpha and numeral sequence,  NET controller asked him to repeat phonetically, guy repeats again in alpha numeral.  NET controller get's pissed and tells the guy if he wishes to use the club repeater he will follow club requirements/rules, one of them being phonetic call signs when requested. Guy went silent.  I then went to their club rule page and no where did i see anything applying to use of phonetic call signs.   Most Net controllers on WIN and PAPA (less on PAPA) require phonetic call sign and i would bet it all started by ex-military HAMS because the military actually teaches phonetic use which in turn rolled over to Law Enforcement..   The FBI seldom uses phonetics.   You are right, no where in the rules does it apply phonetic requirement for call signs other than suggesting morse code is acceptable.   

And that right there is what I am afraid of happening on GMRS.  I don't make many friends by running repeaters and having that sort of thing go on.  That would get Net Control banned from my repeater pretty much on the spot if I heard it happen.  Newbies hear what we do and will imitate it because they don't know any better.  That's the reason we don't let folks get drunk off their ass and talk on the repeater, because the minute one guy does it, everyone else thinks it's OK if nothing is said.  But I would still rather hear some one three sheets to the wind on the air, than a guy that believes he needs to ID every 10 minutes and use phonetics for his call every time he ID's when he's full quieting into the repeater.  Again, personal opinion but we all have those.

 

[WSAA635]

GMRS is NOT H.A.M. so all those H.A.M. rules don't apply. Many folks don't even bother with their call sign or those that do don't follow the 15 minute rule. 

WSAA six three five OUT. 

[AdmiralCochrane]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:39 AM, WSAA635 said:

GMRS is NOT H.A.M. so all those H.A.M. rules don't apply. Many folks don't even bother with their call sign or those that do don't follow the 15 minute rule. 

WSAA six three five OUT. 

FCC rules still apply.  Call sign is required on GMRS. 

[WSAA635]

20 minutes ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

FCC rules still apply.  Call sign is required on GMRS. 

What if you're talking on an FRS channel? Do GRMS Rules apply? No, they don't so even IF you have your GMRS License if you're talking on an FRS channel no one knows(or cares)if you use your call sign. 

Personally, I feel call sign only matters if you're talking thru a repeater. 

Edited March 18 by WSAA635

[WRQC527]

8 minutes ago, WSAA635 said:

What if you're talking on an FRS channel? Do GRMS Rules apply? No, they don't so even IF you have your GMRS License if you're talking on an FRS channel no one knows(or cares)if you use your call sign. 

Personally, I feel call sign only matters if you're talking thru a repeater. 

Personal feelings are not rules. You'll likely never be prosecuted for failing to ID with your call sign on GMRS whether you're using a repeater or not. But that doesn't change the rule. 

[WSAA635]

If I'm out in the desert hunting doves it be silly to give my call sign jut to tell my grandson something on the radio. 

If I'm calling for a radio check or joining in on a conversation with people that I don't personally know then sure, I'll use my call sign but it's going to be on a case by case basis. 

If I'm talking with family and friends it'd sound stupid to use my call sign.