Repeaters with Battery Backup

[WSCB526]

I am searching for Repeaters to have access to in the event of an emergency.  As we all know if services go down and we need repeater access to communicate; they are NG if down.  I always like to plan for the worst, so now is the time.  In particular, I need to know if BTG Communications on Long Island has this capability.   Thanks, everyone in advance for any info you can supply.   Be safe

[WRXP381]

Might want to just ask the owner.   I’d recommend you get close to the owners of any repeater you use.  Email them.  Offer your help in any way. Offer to run a net once a week or once a month.  

[WRYZ926]

That is definitely a question to ask the repeater owner. Some repeaters will have some form of backup power while others will not.

We currently have a backup generator for our three repeaters and are in the process of adding a battery backup system.

[WSAM454]

See the second paragraph here:

 

https://www.btgcommunications.club/aboutus

 

Contact them under "contact us" heading.

[TDM827]

Agree you should contact btg, or any other repeater owner, you plan on using to see what there back up capability is. Just remember, individual repeater owners are under no obligation to provide back up power, or any repeater service for that matter. 

The larger repeaters, club repeater or a repeater which seeks donations likely offers more power back up solutions. Unless there are some formal club or association bylaws requiring same. 

The bottom line is, if you use someone else's system it's their system to do as they wish. Which is actually a good thing.

In my opinion, and its just my opinion, repeaters fill a good primary or alternate communications role for everyday use, depending on your need. And a possible emergency communications role for small regional emergencies. In the event of a large scale geographically diverse emergency (impacting a larger area) I hope the repeaters I use are up and running, but I don't count on it as emergency communications.  

If those roles fit into your plan then go for it. If you need nearly guaranteed and robust GMRS repeater access perhaps you and some like minded individuals in your area could pool funds and recourses and build out exactly what you need.  

Best of Luck and keep us posted if you start a project. 

     

[gortex2]

I can tell you very few GMRS repeaters have backup plans. Same can be said for alot of HAM gear out in the world now. I see repeaters all the time at sites not on UPS or battery. 

[jsneezy]

10 hours ago, gortex2 said:

I can tell you very few GMRS repeaters have backup plans. Same can be said for alot of HAM gear out in the world now. I see repeaters all the time at sites not on UPS or battery. 

Here in Arizona, a lot of repeaters are on solar with battery backup. Especially the ones around the Phoenix area. There's also several on generator backups as well. I think it has more to do with the site that the repeater is installed at and whether a backup plan is available on site. 

[nokones]

My Sun City West 625 Repeater has battery backup.

[jsneezy]

1 hour ago, nokones said:

My Sun City West 625 Repeater has battery backup.

Also both Towers Mountain 575 and 600 and Diamond Point 575. I think a few of the SWCRS repeaters do as well. Possibly Shaw Butte 725, but I could be mistaken on that one. I'm not sure how many of the AZ GMRS Club repeaters are on battery backup, as I haven't joined.

[nokones]

1 hour ago, jsneezy said:

Also both Towers Mountain 575 and 600 and Diamond Point 575. I think a few of the SWCRS repeaters do as well. Possibly Shaw Butte 725, but I could be mistaken on that one. I'm not sure how many of the AZ GMRS Club repeaters are on battery backup, as I haven't joined.

I will ask that question at the next meeting.  Hell, why wait, I'll pose that question on the AZ GMRS Forum and see what I get back.

[WRKC935]

Well, I can't speak to the repeaters you mentioned. 

I can tell you what I personally have bit since I am in Ohio that will do you little good.  If you search my other posts, it's been spelled out a number of times.   But I will say that my stuff will stay up for WEEKS at a minimum, and I work to increase that time whenever possible. 

All that being said.  And as mentioned, you absolutely can attempt to work with a local repeater owner to add battery backup to their system.  But there are things that you need to know about that system before going down that road.

First is what repeater and accessories are connected to the repeater in question.  If it's just the repeater and it has some level of being connected to battery, then it's a pretty simple operation.  If the repeater is connected to a repeater controller, and it's running on a power supply other than the one feeding the repeater it can get more complex, but not impossible by any stretch.  So the first thing to find out is what equipment is in place. Then figure out what power requirements it has.  Many repeaters have DC input that can either be used as a backup, or as a direct power feed to run the gear.  I am doing that.  My gear is run from 24 volts, and that power is derived from a 48 volt battery system.  Now you don't need to do all that.  A string of two batteries will run any legal GMRS repeater since we are limited to 50 watts of output power. 

If you connect multiple strings in parallel, then you add storage capacity to the battery plant.  I currently run 6 strings myself.  The batteries are all the same capacity which is 110 Amp Hour.  So each individual string will provide 110 Amp Hour, and since there are 6 strings that is 660 Amp Hour of capacity.

You do need to run batteries that are similar in capacity to make sure that the power is delivered equally from all strings.

Also, it's is REALLY important that each string is individually fused and all feeds from the BUSS are fused when running multiple strings of batteries.  Shorts placed across any part of this type of system will flow eminence amounts of current.  A short WILL cause a fire.  Number 2 wire shorted across 2 or more strings of batteries will become red hot in seconds when these levels of currents start flowing, so proper fusing is not a choice. 

Besides that you will need a charger that will maintain the batteries and possibly power the repeater while grid power is present. 

 

 

[nokones]

21 hours ago, jsneezy said:

Also both Towers Mountain 575 and 600 and Diamond Point 575. I think a few of the SWCRS repeaters do as well. Possibly Shaw Butte 725, but I could be mistaken on that one. I'm not sure how many of the AZ GMRS Club repeaters are on battery backup, as I haven't joined.

Only the White Tanks repeater has backup emergency generator power for 10 days. Apparently, the other three repeaters do not.

[jsneezy]

On 5/9/2024 at 4:31 AM, nokones said:

Only the White Tanks repeater has backup emergency generator power for 10 days. Apparently, the other three repeaters do not.

I would have thought more of their repeaters would have some kind of backup, but that may also be dependent on what's available at the site the repeater is set up at. Generator and backup systems can get pretty expensive. 

[nokones]

22 minutes ago, jsneezy said:

I would have thought more of their repeaters would have some kind of backup, but that may also be dependent on what's available at the site the repeater is set up at. Generator and backup systems can get pretty expensive. 

I believe the other three sites may be at non-commercial remote sites

[addcom]

WRHT835, 462.600 Onondaga Hill NY. Yes it has commercial Battery back-up.

Regards,

Dave Adams Sr

Addcom Electronics

[jsneezy]

14 hours ago, nokones said:

I believe the other three sites may be at non-commercial remote sites

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Mesa 725 is set up at someone's home. That particular repeater is the reason I wish there was an output tone on Shaw Butte. When I'm monitoring, I can never tell whether I'm hearing Shaw or Mesa. 

[nokones]

6 hours ago, jsneezy said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Mesa 725 is set up at someone's home. That particular repeater is the reason I wish there was an output tone on Shaw Butte. When I'm monitoring, I can never tell whether I'm hearing Shaw or Mesa. 

It is at someone's home.  I believe it will be moved some time in the near future.  The Club is working with an owner of a former Grain Silo to replace the Mesa 725 location.  Also, the Club has been collaborating with the owner of the Valley 625 repeater.  For now the owner is willing to link his Valley 625 repeater to the White Tanks Repeater and the network on Tuesdays for the two Nets.  The Club is also exploring sites for south of the Valley and the Casa Grande Areas.  However, this is a far future plan for now unless something becomes available insofar as a available remote site.

The owner temporarily shut down the Shaw Butte Repeater again and I have a feeling that he may restrict the Shaw Butte repeater just as he did with the Towers 575 and only allow a handful of his close and dear friends.

[WRKC935]

6 hours ago, nokones said:

The owner temporarily shut down the Shaw Butte Repeater again and I have a feeling that he may restrict the Shaw Butte repeater just as he did with the Towers 575 and only allow a handful of his close and dear friends.

Now this is a PERSONAL OPINION.  But I will voice it here.  When you put a repeater into service, you effectively take that repeater pair away from anyone else that might want to use it.  Now the regulations for GMRS allow for this to a point.  And for a small footprint repeater that covers a town, city or other small area, ok what ever.  But when you build a wide area repeater, and do similar restriction, no one in that coverage area can use that pair effectively.  When you decide to build MULTIPLE wide area coverage repeaters like that with similar restriction, then you are going above and beyond in being a dick.  You hve now restricted multiple repeater pairs for your own groups communication.  If you are going to build wide area coverage systems, they need to be accessible to all license holders.  You have stopped their ability to do their own thing without causing 'interference' to your system and in effect are creating interference for the communication of others by doing so. 

 

[jsneezy]

2 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

Now this is a PERSONAL OPINION.  But I will voice it here.  When you put a repeater into service, you effectively take that repeater pair away from anyone else that might want to use it.  Now the regulations for GMRS allow for this to a point.  And for a small footprint repeater that covers a town, city or other small area, ok what ever.  But when you build a wide area repeater, and do similar restriction, no one in that coverage area can use that pair effectively.  When you decide to build MULTIPLE wide area coverage repeaters like that with similar restriction, then you are going above and beyond in being a dick.  You hve now restricted multiple repeater pairs for your own groups communication.  If you are going to build wide area coverage systems, they need to be accessible to all license holders.  You have stopped their ability to do their own thing without causing 'interference' to your system and in effect are creating interference for the communication of others by doing so. 

 

That's essentially the Towers 575 repeater that was mentioned previously. That particular repeater has a massive coverage area. There's also Towers 600, which is in the same general vicinity with similar coverage, and is still an open system. But lately, I've been noticing a couple to a few people bickering and arguing a lot on the Shaw repeater. There is another local repeater on the same frequency pair as Shaw, but it's a private club repeater. And yet another open repeater on a mountain outside of Tucson that also has a massive coverage area, but I never notice any traffic on it. 

At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if Shaw ends up going private with paid access like Towers 575 did. The "temporary" shutdowns with Shaw seem to be more and more frequent over the last few months. I've also been noticing that there has been a lot of bickering and arguing between some of the people using it, while using language that I wouldn't want my young daughter listening to. 

[nokones]

2 hours ago, jsneezy said:

That's essentially the Towers 575 repeater that was mentioned previously. That particular repeater has a massive coverage area. There's also Towers 600, which is in the same general vicinity with similar coverage, and is still an open system. But lately, I've been noticing a couple to a few people bickering and arguing a lot on the Shaw repeater. There is another local repeater on the same frequency pair as Shaw, but it's a private club repeater. And yet another open repeater on a mountain outside of Tucson that also has a massive coverage area, but I never notice any traffic on it. 

At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if Shaw ends up going private with paid access like Towers 575 did. The "temporary" shutdowns with Shaw seem to be more and more frequent over the last few months. I've also been noticing that there has been a lot of bickering and arguing between some of the people using it, while using language that I wouldn't want my young daughter listening to. 

The Tower 575 and the Shaw Butte 725 Repeaters are owned by the same person.  There is a person that has a hard-on for the repeater owner and has been creating havoc on those two repeaters.  Towers 600 is no longer open and now has controlled access by permission.

[WRKC935]

2 hours ago, jsneezy said:

That's essentially the Towers 575 repeater that was mentioned previously. That particular repeater has a massive coverage area. There's also Towers 600, which is in the same general vicinity with similar coverage, and is still an open system. But lately, I've been noticing a couple to a few people bickering and arguing a lot on the Shaw repeater. There is another local repeater on the same frequency pair as Shaw, but it's a private club repeater. And yet another open repeater on a mountain outside of Tucson that also has a massive coverage area, but I never notice any traffic on it. 

At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if Shaw ends up going private with paid access like Towers 575 did. The "temporary" shutdowns with Shaw seem to be more and more frequent over the last few months. I've also been noticing that there has been a lot of bickering and arguing between some of the people using it, while using language that I wouldn't want my young daughter listening to. 

Well, I am in a unique situation that allows me to NOT charge for access.  The antenna system, equipment and all the rest was assembled from gear that I had.

We have the expense of maintaining the site since it's owned privately and therefore we maintain it, pay the power bill, taxes and the like.

But I will tell you that if I had to buy the stuff that makes up the repeater system, it would be thousands of dollars.  If we couldn't climb the tower which is the case if you don't own the site, that's thousands in labor.

Point is that a paid membership repeater that has reasonable coverage in your area isn't a bad investment.  Situations like mine are all but non-existent.  So it you are paying 100 bucks or less a year to access a top notch repeater system that covers your area well.  You would be YEARS in just breaking even doing your own thing with your own repeater.  And frankly, guys don't always have the knowledge to do it correctly and bringing in a person that is knowledgeable is costly too. 

I use to poo poo on the idea of a pay to play system.  But they are certainly a good option for someone that has no space, location or ability to put up a repeater.  And the pay repeaters, if nothing else typically have excellent coverage.

 

[jsneezy]

5 hours ago, nokones said:

The Tower 575 and the Shaw Butte 725 Repeaters are owned by the same person.  There is a person that has a hard-on for the repeater owner and has been creating havoc on those two repeaters.  Towers 600 is no longer open and now has controlled access by permission.

He owns a few repeaters. I think Diamond Point is his as well. I didn't know Towers 600 went private. As far as I can tell, it's still using the same tone, at least from my HT sitting in my bedroom as of now. I'll go request permission before any further use though. I don't want to make things worse than they are with everything going on with the repeaters up that direction. Since I live in San Tan Valley, I tend to stick to Pinal 675, Mt. Lemmon 650, and webhiway-tucson 725, for the most part. If work takes me out that way, or if the other repeaters are quiet, I'll monitor Shaw Butte or Towers 600. Maybe a PTT-ID system like SWCRS is using on the Pinal repeater would be beneficial on Shaw Butte. It would at least filter out anyone not using a specified and allowed PTT-ID. 

[jsneezy]

5 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

Well, I am in a unique situation that allows me to NOT charge for access.  The antenna system, equipment and all the rest was assembled from gear that I had.

We have the expense of maintaining the site since it's owned privately and therefore we maintain it, pay the power bill, taxes and the like.

But I will tell you that if I had to buy the stuff that makes up the repeater system, it would be thousands of dollars.  If we couldn't climb the tower which is the case if you don't own the site, that's thousands in labor.

Point is that a paid membership repeater that has reasonable coverage in your area isn't a bad investment.  Situations like mine are all but non-existent.  So it you are paying 100 bucks or less a year to access a top notch repeater system that covers your area well.  You would be YEARS in just breaking even doing your own thing with your own repeater.  And frankly, guys don't always have the knowledge to do it correctly and bringing in a person that is knowledgeable is costly too. 

I use to poo poo on the idea of a pay to play system.  But they are certainly a good option for someone that has no space, location or ability to put up a repeater.  And the pay repeaters, if nothing else typically have excellent coverage.

 

I don't have a problem with paid access to a repeater or a system of repeaters. Your equipment, your access to the site, your choice kind of deal. I'm just irritated that some of the best open repeaters in the area are going private and paid access because someone or a few people want to be children and cause problems. 

[WRKC935]

2 hours ago, jsneezy said:

I don't have a problem with paid access to a repeater or a system of repeaters. Your equipment, your access to the site, your choice kind of deal. I'm just irritated that some of the best open repeaters in the area are going private and paid access because someone or a few people want to be children and cause problems. 

Well, I sort of have issue with that.  But I also don't know if his situation changed, rent got increased or what motivated him to decide to do that.  So I am not going to disagree with the actions of that repeater owner, because I simply don't know why he did it to begin with.

I will say that there is a huge increase in GMRS users lately.  I am getting 4 or 5 new requests per week, and I have one repeater that's linked and one that's stand alone.  Both are seeing increased traffic month to month.  And with that you are going to get some folks that have it in their head that paying for a license gives them access to anything they can program in their radio.  Of course that's not gonna be teh case in all situations.  And, you are going to have people that want to cause trouble, because it's their nature to do so. 

You can always contact the owner and ask why, and if he's wanting a reasonable fee, make a decision to drop him a few bucks to access his repeater.  He might just give you permission since he's not had problems with you to begin with.  It's hard to say. 

[gortex2]

I know this slightly went off topic but I'm in the same boat. I have never really listed my stuff and never really had issues. I spend alot of money on electric maintenance and repairs and that was my decision. We listed our old SAR repeater for a while and took it off in part due to folks expectations. Not all over the US do you get 150 mile coverage but some on this site think thats a must on a CCR. As said the use case has changed as well and some folks "expect" repeaters and use where ever they want. I'm not sure where that thought process began other than the ham world. Not really sure.