Question about repeater use case

[stoutryan]

Good afternoon community.  I have been asking a few questions in a related thread but I dont want to hijack someone and Steve (very helpful) has been great.  All that being said I would like to confirm my understanding of a use case as it relates to the use of a repeater.  

I have a series of radios but for this case we will be discussing a UV handhelds  

I have a repeater in the area that I am confirmed I can connect to. 

My family is often ~2.5 miles away from me and we have spotty reception when going HH to HH and I would like to be able to communicate with them in an emergency.  Their HH cannot adequately connect to the repeater.  

Ok......   Now that all thats been covered.

Am I correct in my understanding that in a scenario where I need to get information to them I could connect to said repeater and as long as their radio has RX and TX tones set to off THEY can hear ME.  I would then be able to communicate one way to them until I get closer to their unit at which time I can switch to the same NO TX/RX tones and we can then have bilateral comms via HH.  

 

I believe I said that in a way that makes sense but please let me know if clarification is needed and thank you in advance for the help! 

Ryan, Portland OR.  WRDL532

[Socalgmrs]

Yes and no.   First a repeater uses 2 frequencies so you would program one “channel” for repeater and 1 channel for simplex.   Then set up each radio to monitor both channels.  Then when talking just say for example unit 1 to unit 2 on simplex or unit 1 to unit 2 on repeater.   I’m more concerned with why you can’t get an ht to transmit more than 2.5 miles.  If I don’t get 20 miles simplex  from my hts I toss them in the trash.     What radios are you using?  What antennas are you using?   I think this site is full of people that are ok with mediocre radio performance and then tell others it’s ok as well.   There are a few ways to make even the cheapest hand helds work much better then some people say they can. 

[stoutryan]

10 minutes ago, Socalgmrs said:

Yes and no.   First a repeater uses 2 frequencies so you would program one “channel” for repeater and 1 channel for simplex.   Then set up each radio to monitor both channels.  Then when talking just say for example unit 1 to unit 2 on simplex or unit 1 to unit 2 on repeater.   I’m more concerned with why you can’t get an ht to transmit more than 2.5 miles.  If I don’t get 20 miles simplex  from my hts I toss them in the trash.     What radios are you using?  What antennas are you using?   I think this site is full of people that are ok with mediocre radio performance and then tell others it’s ok as well.   There are a few ways to make even the cheapest hand helds work much better then some people say they can. 

Using UV-8 with upgraded antennas.  I think the main issue is the terrain between us during the times apart.  I'm on the south side of a peninsula and they are on the north with a large rise in the middle that we have to overcome.  

 

 

Also... The more I think through this I

shouldnt have to technically change my channels.  If I keep my RX turned off I can simply use the repeater for outbound traffic and then monitor the non toned traffic which is VERY little to none other than us talking. 

[Socalgmrs]

7 minutes ago, stoutryan said:

Using UV-8 with upgraded antennas.  I think the main issue is the terrain between us during the times apart.  I'm on the south side of a peninsula and they are on the north with a large rise in the middle that we have to overcome.  

 

 

Also... The more I think through this I

shouldnt have to technically change my channels.  If I keep my RX turned off I can simply use the repeater for outbound traffic and then monitor the non toned traffic which is VERY little to none other than us talking. 

Nope.  You will have to change channels.  As they will be transmiting into the repeater on 467 and you will be listening on 462 for the repeater.    It doesn’t work they way you think it does 

[WRWE456]

You may be better off setting up base station antennas at each house. Mast mounted antennas as high as you can. You can still use your hand held radios. Height is might in radio as they say. To test this maybe you can climb onto the roof of the houses and see if you can talk. Remember to hold the antennas vertical as they work best that way. If you can then base antennas should be all you need. If not then base antennas may allow each to connect to the local repeater.

[stoutryan]

20 minutes ago, Socalgmrs said:

Nope.  You will have to change channels.  As they will be transmiting into the repeater on 467 and you will be listening on 462 for the repeater.    It doesn’t work they way you think it does 

They cant reach the repeater.  They will be monitoring 462

 

[marcspaz]

Yes, if they have no tone squelch enabled, they should be able to hear you fine. 

 

I would recommend improving your communication plan, however. While it's not likely you will get in any trouble, one-way communication is heavily restricted to specific types information. Not to mention, if you can't hear them to know they received the message, it can very likely lead to confusion and missed messages. 

[WRWE456]

9 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

I would recommend improving your communication plan, however. While it's not likely you will get in any trouble, one-way communication is heavily restricted to specific types information. Not to mention, if you can't hear them to know they received the message, it can very likely lead to confusion and missed messages. 

Very good points Marc!

[JBRPong]

Not sure if this applies to your situation. Most radios have dual watch. 

My son is at school an hour away,  we both have the local repeater on 1 channel and a GMRS channel on the other one.
That came in handy when he hit an animal on his way home just at the edge of the repeater coverage.  He was able to hear me when I was on the repeater on way out to help but I couldn't hear him and was able to get him on the non repeater channel when I got closer.
We both have HTs with dual PTTs so that made this setup much easier to use.

[WSFG777]

In theory what you want to do could work, but especially if the other party isn’t radio saavy, it’s likely not to work as slick as you hope (I’m thinking about my own family here).  Let’s say you are on a repeater whose output frequency is 462.600, same as simplex channel 17.  Yes, they could listen to ch17 simplex and hear you whether you were talking on repeater or simplex.  The down side to being simplex on a repeater output frequency is then other people will use the repeater and stomp over your signal, and/or get confused with 2 conversations on 1  frequency.  So once you can hear each other directly, you should both switch to one of the other simplex channels 1 thru 7.

[AdmiralCochrane]

On 10/26/2024 at 7:24 PM, Socalgmrs said:

Yes and no.   First a repeater uses 2 frequencies so you would program one “channel” for repeater and 1 channel for simplex.   Then set up each radio to monitor both channels.  Then when talking just say for example unit 1 to unit 2 on simplex or unit 1 to unit 2 on repeater.   I’m more concerned with why you can’t get an ht to transmit more than 2.5 miles.  If I don’t get 20 miles simplex  from my hts I toss them in the trash.     What radios are you using?  What antennas are you using?   I think this site is full of people that are ok with mediocre radio performance and then tell others it’s ok as well.   There are a few ways to make even the cheapest hand helds work much better then some people say they can. 

I've never made a simplex greater than 12 miles. I guess all my radios are garbage.

[OffRoaderX]

On 10/26/2024 at 4:24 PM, Socalgmrs said:

I’m more concerned with why you can’t get an ht to transmit more than 2.5 miles.  If I don’t get 20 miles simplex  from my hts I toss them in the trash

If you had any actual understanding of how radio waves work and how not everybody lives in the same place as you do/everyone has different geographic constraints, you would understand how utterly ree-tahr-ded you just made yourself look.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Lack of available RAM

[LeoG]

3 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

If you had any actual understanding of how radio waves work and how not everybody lives in the same place as you do/everyone has different geographic constraints, you would understand how utterly ree-tahr-ded you just made yourself look.

There's a few people on here that think because they can get  many fars that everyone should be able to do the same

[GreggInFL]

On 10/26/2024 at 7:24 PM, Socalgmrs said:

 I’m more concerned with why you can’t get an ht to transmit more than 2.5 miles.  If I don’t get 20 miles simplex  from my hts I toss them in the trash.

Feel free to toss them my way.  I will add them to the collection of HTs that can't reach more than two miles in the woods.

I hate trees.