Found This Interesting - GMRS Users Are Forbidden To Talk To Amateur Stations

[WRYZ926]

57 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Did WRKW566 get banned? All his posts are showing up as "guest" on my end.

Same here. Either that or he took is toys and went home.

[WRXB215]

@marcspaz he may have deleted his account.

@WRUI365 lol, that's funny

[Willie]

4 hours ago, marcspaz said:

Did WRKW566 get banned? All his posts are showing up as "guest" on my end.

 

On 11/17/2024 at 10:08 PM, Guest said:

<-----------snip------------>

I just got fed up with the Meshtastic nonsense. I think I have reached that point with the GMRS Internet experience. This has run it's coarse with the preaching and hostile posts here on mygmrs and Reddit as well. None of you will miss me and I don't even know who any of you are so there is a mutual no-loss benefit here.

Kinda sounded to me like he planned on leaving voluntarily.

[SteveShannon]

41 minutes ago, Willie said:

 

Kinda sounded to me like he planned on leaving voluntarily.

It sounded that way to me also. It’s too bad if he has.  I wasn’t offended by anything he said.  He wasn’t here long enough to get to know us very well or vice versa. I can’t imagine he was banned though.  Perhaps he asked Rich to delete his account. I’m not sure what that would accomplish.  
In fact he nearly left in this post almost a month ago:

 

[WRXB215]

Some people seem to wear their emotions on their sleeve. 

[Willie]

2 hours ago, WRXB215 said:

Some people seem to wear their emotions on their sleeve. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHb5CFGYz1A

[LeoG]

On 11/19/2024 at 9:07 AM, WRXB215 said:

Some people seem to wear their emotions on their sleeve. 

Even though my signature says I'm one of those.

 

I'm not on of those

[Hoppyjr]

Some folks are also forbidden from talking to their ex wife.

Both situations can be viewed as a positive.

[AdmiralCochrane]

5 hours ago, Hoppyjr said:

Some folks are also forbidden from talking to their ex wife.

Both situations can be viewed as a positive.

I think you mean some people

[Hans]

Quote

§ 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses.

(a) In addition to the prohibited uses outlined in § 95.333 of this chapter, GMRS stations must not communicate:

...

(9) Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the Amateur Radio Service, to any unauthorized station, or to any foreign station;

The way I have always understood this part was that we (GMRS operators and equipment) are prohibited from passing traffic to or from the amateur bands. So, if a buddy on amateur gives me a message, I am prohibited from passing that message on the GMRS frequencies unless it is an emergency message. The reverse, GMRS to amateur, is also true for licensed GMRS operators and equipment. Likewise, we (GMRS operators and equipment) are prohibited from passing traffic to unlicensed or otherwise unauthorized stations. For example, an FRS operator and equipment that doesn't comply with the license-by-rule regulations would be an unlicensed and unauthorized station.
 
ETA: An FRS operator and equipment that comply with part 95A and part 95B are licensed and authorized stations by virtue of license-by-rule so we are permitted to pass traffic to and from FRS.

Edited Tuesday at 10:09 AM by Hans

[BoxCar]

The regulation means the two services are not allowed to connect to each other using their assigned frequencies. A GMRS station is not allowed to use a cross-band repeater to retransmit traffic from any other service and the amateur service is not to use cross-band repeaters to carry traffic from any other service. This particular regulation just spells out specific services.

[LeoG]

3 hours ago, Hans said:

The way I have always understood this part was that we (GMRS operators and equipment) are prohibited from passing traffic to or from the amateur bands. So, if a buddy on amateur gives me a message, I am prohibited from passing that message on the GMRS frequencies unless it is an emergency message. The reverse, GMRS to amateur, is also true for licensed GMRS operators and equipment. Likewise, we (GMRS operators and equipment) are prohibited from passing traffic to unlicensed or otherwise unauthorized stations. For example, an FRS operator and equipment that doesn't comply with the license-by-rule regulations would be an unlicensed and unauthorized station.
 
ETA: An FRS operator and equipment that comply with part 95A and part 95B are licensed and authorized stations by virtue of license-by-rule so we are permitted to pass traffic to and from FRS.

That sounds like a really stupid unnecessary regulation if that's one of its real intentions.  I'd tend to think it was more signal passing then message passing.

[UncleYoda]

No, @LeoG that's not what it means.  Messages are just information - there is no rule to stop that.  In fact it is a standard part of emergency comms.  Besides the example already given above, it does mean you can't have a conversation half on one service and half on another, as if I talk to you on 2m and you reply back on GMRS.  (Short test messages like that are OK though.)

[LeoG]

So I talk to you on a GMRS frequency.  I am licensed to transmit on that frequency.  You listen to me on your dual receive radio.  You need no license to listen to any frequencies on radio.  So we are legal there.

Now you transmit on 2m, which you have a license for.  I have my dual receive radio set to hear 2m band which I am fully allowed to do.  So I can hear your conversation.

Where is the law/regulation broken?  There is nothing illegal about anything done.  So in effect it is the message that is illegal because everything else is above board.

I guess we can just say that we are just talking to ourselves over the air (I know someone who does this when no one answers him) and out of the magnitude of coincidences we just happen to answer each others queries.

[WRUU653]

4 minutes ago, LeoG said:

guess we can just say that we are just talking to ourselves over the air 

That’s called broadcasting and it is not permitted. That’s why you are not permitted to talk between services. 

[SteveShannon]

21 minutes ago, LeoG said:

So I talk to you on a GMRS frequency.  I am licensed to transmit on that frequency.  You listen to me on your dual receive radio.  You need no license to listen to any frequencies on radio.  So we are legal there.

Now you transmit on 2m, which you have a license for.  I have my dual receive radio set to hear 2m band which I am fully allowed to do.  So I can hear your conversation.

Where is the law/regulation broken?  There is nothing illegal about anything done.  So in effect it is the message that is illegal because everything else is above board.

I guess we can just say that we are just talking to ourselves over the air (I know someone who does this when no one answers him) and out of the magnitude of coincidences we just happen to answer each others queries.

Prohibited: 

1733 (b) GMRS stations must not be used for one-way communications other than those listed in § 95.1731(b). Initial transmissions to establish two-way communications and data transmissions listed in § 95.1731(d) are not considered to be one-way communications for the purposes of this section.

and 1731(b) says this:

(b) One-way communications. The operator of a GMRS station may use that station to transmit one-way communications:

(1) To call for help or transmit other emergency communications;

(2) To provide warnings of hazardous road conditions to travelers; or,

(3) To make brief test transmissions.

 

But no rules prohibit relaying messages received on one service by using another service. So you and I could have a conversation on GMRS and I could then have a conversation on 2 meters with Gil @WRUU653 operating as KO6BIK and I could relay the message to him.  

[marcspaz]

That's a winning answer, @SteveShannon!

[Lscott]

These are the Part 97 rules that apply.

97.111 Authorized transmissions.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-97/subpart-B/section-97.111

97.113 - Prohibited transmissions.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113

97.115 - Third party communications.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.115

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

These are the Part 97 rules that apply.

97.111 Authorized transmissions.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-97/subpart-B/section-97.111

97.113 - Prohibited transmissions.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113

97.115 - Third party communications.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.115

 

 

I have always understood the rules (including the ones above) to indicate you can talk in one service and receive in another  Amateur and GMRS are both FCC regulated services in the US and while not transmitting and receiving in the same service, you are definitely not broadcasting nor having a one-way transmission. It is absolutely two-way voice traffic. 

 

That said, I'm an idiot. So, don't take my opinion as gospel. 

[LeoG]

That's kind of the way I've read it too.  I consider broadcasting like music or a show, not just sentences periodically.

They ain't coming for you anyway.  How do they know you aren't talking simplex and they just can't hear the other person?

[Lscott]

7 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

I have always understood the rules (including the ones above) to indicate you can talk in one service and receive in another 

Yes, but I read it as only allowed as specifically mentioned in the rules under narrowly defined conditions. 

I also though I read amateurs are only allowed to communicate with other stations in the amateur service, USA or other countries, as a general rule at one time, but I can't seem to find the exact location where that was in Part 97. I could be miss remembering.

[SteveShannon]

5 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

 

I have always understood the rules (including the ones above) to indicate you can talk in one service and receive in another  Amateur and GMRS are both FCC regulated services in the US and while not transmitting and receiving in the same service, you are definitely not broadcasting nor having a one-way transmission. It is absolutely two-way voice traffic. 

 

That said, I'm an idiot. So, don't take my opinion as gospel. 

I disagree on two counts.  First, you’re not an idiot.

Second, any time you transmit without an expectation of a response that’s a one-way transmission.  That’s why the regulations go into so much detail about which one-way messages are allowed:

97.111 (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications:

(1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station;

(2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations;

(3) Telecommand;

(4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency communications;

(5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning, or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code; and

(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.

(7) Transmissions of telemetry.

Having a conversation with a GMRS station consists of two one way transmissions, not two way communications. 

[LeeBo]

My "ham shack" consists of a chair on my front porch with one GMRS HT radio (locked to GMRS frequencies) and one HAM HT radio (locked to HAM frequencies) and a cold beverage. I can talk on both (which I am properly licensed for) from the same chair.....usually.  Might have to get up and move 5 feet for better signal.

[Lscott]

8 minutes ago, LeeBo said:

My "ham shack" consists of a chair on my front porch with one GMRS HT radio (locked to GMRS frequencies) and one HAM HT radio (locked to HAM frequencies) and a cold beverage. I can talk on both (which I am properly licensed for) from the same chair.....usually.  Might have to get up and move 5 feet for better signal.

Gee, that's might be hard to do. Have two radios and a cold beverage, but only two hands. Got to make a hard choice what to hold on too.

[LeeBo]

6 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Gee, that's might be hard to do. Have two radios and a cold beverage, but only two hands. Got to make a hard choice what to hold on too.

Well, honestly I'm usually holding a cold beverage in both hands. That way I don't have to get up as often.